Blaze King Princess 29 versus Pacific Summit LE - Insert Replacement for Regency I3100L

[MongoMongoson]

Love the cat next to the fire! I'm an engineer, would love to test it. If you are serious I would pay the shipping. Extremely nice of you and I'm replacing a unit that went bad. Some here think it was drafting too much. I would return it right away.

I have no immediate need for the gauge so I am happy to lend it out.

I sent you a personal message.

 

[davidmsem]

You mentioned using fans to move heat; Have you tried a small desk fan on the floor, outside the stove room, blowing (low speed) cool, dense air into the stove room through the bottom of the doorway?

....

It's fan central here. In the first picture you can see two fans I sit on the floor to move cold heavier air into the room with the insert. Typical four bedroom colonial center hallway. At night when the doors are closed to the back half of the house on the first floor I invented the fandoor. I have two fandoors working in opposite directions. The warmest air flowing down the center hallway of the two bedroom colonial center hall. This creates somewhat of a loop.

And the third picture, from the front of the house. I have a fan running pointed at the ceiling to move the convective loop up toward the second story.

In the fourth picture you can see two air conditioning vents in the room with the answer. In the winter those two are dropping air from the second story. I use the air conditioning return on the second story and connect that to 6 inch inline duct fan, and then down to the registers in the room with the insert.

This is the best working so far. If I had to guess it's probably 3° or 4° increase upstairs. Downstairs it's in the high 70s and anywhere in the 80s. Upstairs tends to be a low to high 60s. Good for sleeping. Lots of walking around and shorts in this house in the winter.

My wife continually asks if we are running a fan store and is very tolerant of living with an engineer who likes to tinker and can't stop.

 

[brenndatomu]

It's fan central here. In the first picture you can see two fans I sit on the floor to move cold heavier air into the room with the insert. Typical four bedroom colonial center hallway. At night when the doors are closed to the back half of the house on the first floor I invented the fandoor. I have two fandoors working in opposite directions. The warmest air flowing down the center hallway of the two bedroom colonial center hall. This creates somewhat of a loop.

And the third picture, from the front of the house. I have a fan running pointed at the ceiling to move the convective loop up toward the second story.

In the fourth picture you can see two air conditioning vents. In the winter those two are dropping air from the second story. They use the air conditioning return and connect to it and in line 6 inch duct fan.

This is the best working so far.

My wife continually asks if we are running a fan store and is very tolerant of living with an engineer who likes to tinker and can't stop.

View attachment 293082 View attachment 293083 View attachment 293084 View attachment 293085

Boy, you are a good candidate for a central wood furnace...

 

[stoveliker]

Regarding easy breathers, modern stoves in general are less easy breathing. But that means their required minimum chimney height is most of the time 15' rather than 10 or 12 or so.

Too much draft not only affects temperature ("runaway"), but having a large flow rate also decreases the efficiency of the cat (time spent by gases in the cat or secondary burn zone is less).

 

[davidmsem]

Boy, you are a good candidate for a central wood furnace...

We do love the insert. And we don't burn oil during the winter to heat the main home. The room over the garage requires oil heat but it is on a separate zone. And we built the home and I put five zones of heat in trying to make it energy efficient.

It's interesting the town I live in has banned external to the home wood fired furnaces.

 

[davidmsem]

Regarding easy breathers, modern stoves in general are less easy breathing. But that means their required minimum chimney height is most of the time 15' rather than 10 or 12 or so.

Too much draft not only affects temperature ("runaway"), but having a large flow rate also decreases the efficiency of the cat (time spent by gases in the cat or secondary burn zone is less).

Yes I did read that the blaze king requires at least 15 ft minimum. And I could see how much draft would be bad for a cat. Leaning toward the non-cat Pacific energy based on your thoughtful comments.

 

[bholler]

Yes I did read that the blaze king requires at least 15 ft minimum. And I could see how much draft would be bad for a cat. Leaning toward the non-cat Pacific energy based on your thoughtful comments.

The problem is the Pacific energy is also going to be negativity effected by excessive draft. The thermostat on the blaze king (unless the overdraft is really extreme which I doubt is true in your case) will control temps. There still will be negative effects from excessive draft but not ones that would typically damage the stove itself with the bk. The Pacific energy is absolutely a great stove but will be just as vulnerable to damage from overdraft as the regency was.

 

[BrianVA]

It's interesting the town I live in has banned external to the home wood fired furnaces.

Probably because most of the people who run those things use green wood and emit huge amounts of smoke.

I have two neighbors with outdoor wood boilers. One of them has a fairly modern unit and keeps his wood covered and seasons it properly. It puts out near zero smoke, even in shoulder season weather. The other one burns a bunch of wet pine that he doesn't even bother keeping the wood covered. Its insanely annoying. The amount of smoke he emits makes it impossible for us to enjoy being outside, especially in shoulder season weather. I've considered calling the county to see if I have any options, but decided not to be "that guy". It is only a problem when the wind blows our way.

 

[bholler]

Probably because most of the people who run those things use green wood and emit huge amounts of smoke.

I have two neighbors with outdoor wood boilers. One of them has a fairly modern unit and keeps his wood covered and seasons it properly. It puts out near zero smoke, even in shoulder season weather. The other one burns a bunch of wet pine that he doesn't even bother keeping the wood covered. Its insanely annoying. The amount of smoke he emits makes it impossible for us to enjoy being outside, especially in shoulder season weather. I've considered calling the county to see if I have any options, but decided not to be "that guy". It is only a problem when the wind blows our way.

Yeah most of them around us constantly pour out clouds of smoke. I know they can be much better but we just don't see it.

The majority of interior furnaces we are here are pretty bad as well honestly.

 

[davidmsem]

The problem is the Pacific energy is also going to be negativity effected by excessive draft. The thermostat on the blaze king (unless the overdraft is really extreme which I doubt is true in your case) will control temps. There still will be negative effects from excessive draft but not ones that would typically damage the stove itself with the bk. The Pacific energy is absolutely a great stove but will be just as vulnerable to damage from overdraft as the regency was.

I'm going to measure the draft over the next couple of weeks. I'll let you know what I get for numbers. The only place I can measure it is right when it comes out of the insert. Hopefully that is an okay place to measure.

It sounds like if overdraft is an issue you would lean me toward the blaze King? I appreciate you weighing back in after me resisting getting the draft measured at least. One of the forum members has been kind enough to offer to send me his gauge. Hopefully I have a good place I can read it which is in the first inch or two of the exit of the unit.

And I agree with your guesstimate that it's not extreme overdraft. They recommend 15 ft minimum and I'm probably 28 ft maybe 30 max.

Appreciate the help. Sorry if I was a jerk I'm just stressed.

 

[davidmsem]

Probably because most of the people who run those things use green wood and emit huge amounts of smoke.

I have two neighbors with outdoor wood boilers. One of them has a fairly modern unit and keeps his wood covered and seasons it properly. It puts out near zero smoke, even in shoulder season weather. The other one burns a bunch of wet pine that he doesn't even bother keeping the wood covered. Its insanely annoying. The amount of smoke he emits makes it impossible for us to enjoy being outside, especially in shoulder season weather. I've considered calling the county to see if I have any options, but decided not to be "that guy". It is only a problem when the wind blows our way.

Yes regarding the green wood burning. It went on and on in the town I'm sure before they just said it's banned. I'm like 5 to 7 seasons ahead and firewood so I understand what a joy it is to burn dry wood.

 

[bholler]

I'm going to measure the draft over the next couple of weeks. I'll let you know what I get for numbers. The only place I can measure it is right when it comes out of the insert. Hopefully that is an okay place to measure.

It sounds like if overdraft is an issue you would lean me toward the blaze King? I appreciate you weighing back in after me resisting getting the draft measured at least. One of the forum members has been kind enough to offer to send me his gauge. Hopefully I have a good place I can read it which is in the first inch or two of the exit of the unit.

And I agree with your guesstimate that it's not extreme overdraft. They recommend 15 ft minimum and I'm probably 28 ft maybe 30 max.

Appreciate the help. Sorry if I was a jerk I'm just stressed.

No problem I completely understand where you are coming from.

 

[bholler]

And no I will push for getting you draft under control. Once you do that you can choose what ever stove you want. Both stoves you are considering are very good and with the right draft will work well. At that point it comes down to a cat/non cat debate which is another big can of worms.

 

[bholler]

For the record I may be completely wrong. When you measure it you draft could be fine I have seen that happen on tall chimneys before. But it is not very common. What ever happens I really hope you get it figured out and can move forward from this crappy experience.

 

[stoveliker]

I haven't thought much about overdraft in a tube stove. Time spent in the burn zone matters, the temperature of the secondary air too, and higher draft decreases both. But there might be other factors as well.

That's awesome of (don't remember the name) to lend you his gauge.

 

[brenndatomu]

It's interesting the town I live in has banned external to the home wood fired furnaces.

I get that...people dug their own holes with those things...too bad the new clean burn models are included in the ban in many/most towns now, because they burn clean like a modern stove.
But when I mentioned central wood furnace, I was referring to an indoor (basement) model that ties into your forced air ductwork...there are 2 companies building very clean burning models...SBI makes the Drolet Heat Commander/PSG Caddy (Chevy/Cadillac) and Lamppa MFG makes the long standing king of indoor wood furnaces the Kuuma VF100. (broken link removed)

 

[davidmsem]

For the record I may be completely wrong. When you measure it you draft could be fine I have seen that happen on tall chimneys before. But it is not very common. What ever happens I really hope you get it figured out and can move forward from this crappy experience.

Very interesting another dealer told me, Regency dealer, that they sold a 3100 that had to be replaced because the owner could not pull the fire back in temperature once it reached a sweet spot. As you have suggested you should be able to pull the fire back when it reaches up in temperature. I never had that ability with my 3100. I thought that was normal behavior.They replaced the 3100 and the new one was able to be choked down. So I wonder if I had a unit that could not be fully choked down and defective as opposed to the draft? That was an interesting discussion with a very good dealer here in Connecticut.

Lots of stress and laying out more money so I really appreciate the help here. It's been a stressful few weeks dealing with this.

 

[davidmsem]

I get that...people dug their own holes with those things...too bad the new clean burn models are included in the ban in many/most towns now, because they burn clean like a modern stove.
But when I mentioned central wood furnace, I was referring to an indoor (basement) model that ties into your forced air ductwork...there are 2 companies building very clean burning models...SBI makes the Drolet Heat Commander/PSG Caddy (Chevy/Cadillac) and Lamppa MFG makes the long standing king of indoor wood furnaces the Kuuma VF100. (broken link removed)

The heat in the house is from the basement and baseboard hot water. The ductwork is from the attic where the air conditioner is installed.

 

[davidmsem]

For the record I may be completely wrong. When you measure it you draft could be fine I have seen that happen on tall chimneys before. But it is not very common. What ever happens I really hope you get it figured out and can move forward from this crappy experience.

Thank you and I appreciate the support. And hanging in there with me. What kind of number should I see for draft? I'll let you know and certainly be posting. Can't believe somebody was kind enough to send me a device and save me the hundred bucks or so from buying one. Really nice to get that kind of support when you're stressing over the money and stuff.

 

[bholler]

Thank you and I appreciate the support. And hanging in there with me. What kind of number should I see for draft? I'll let you know and certainly be posting. Can't believe somebody was kind enough to send me a device and save me the hundred bucks or so from buying one. Really nice to get that kind of support when you're stressing over the money and stuff.

-.06 give or take a point generally.

 

[brenndatomu]

-.06 give or take a point generally.

I have a dozen donuts on a reading over -.10...probably well over.

The heat in the house is from the basement and baseboard hot water. The ductwork is from the attic where the air conditioner is installed.

Gotcha.

Can't believe somebody was kind enough to send me a device and save me the hundred bucks or so from buying one. Really nice to get that kind of support when you're stressing over the money and stuff.

That is a stand up offer for sure!
Just FYI,there are many of us that want to monitor draft full time (more so us furnace and boiler operators) and like this Dwyer Mark II model 25 manometer...it is plenty accurate for measuring draft on a wood stove and probably not much more to buy than paying for shipping of that mag gauge...then you'd have one if you ever wanted to check draft in the future...like maybe on a real cold day and you are trying to figure out why the stove is going crazy...outdoor temp affects draft a lot! Just throwing it out there...here is a link for one...there are plenty of others listed too, both on fleabay and scamazon...just make sure if you go that route that it comes with the red gauge oil...its a little spendy to buy separately.
(broken link removed to https://www.ebay.com/itm/224747619898?hash=item345400863a:g:JCAAAOSwiWJhvhz3)

 

[begreen]

Thank you!

Does seem smart to have a damper installed....... Can't hurt right?

How does it get controlled. Do they drill a hole in the backer plate and a lever stick through? Is there even enough room to install one? Will keep learning!

The choices are to reduce the draft or reduce the air getting to the fire. This article covers options.

Florida Bungalow Syndrome

 

[davidmsem]

The choices are to reduce the draft or reduce the air getting to the fire. This article covers options.

Florida Bungalow Syndrome

I'm having trouble locating the blaze King princess 29 BTU EPA test fuel rating. I can't find it for the Pacific energy summit LE, as pictured, but looking to compare it to the blaze King. Trying to get an apples and apples comparison in terms of percent difference of BTU output. Just some rough measure to see the difference between the two units.

 

[stoveliker]

The numbers are tough to compare.

What matters is the fuel input (box size), efficiency (similar), and how fast and slow you can burn down that load.

On the slow side BK wins.
On the fast side they likely are edged out by PEs.

But if you dimension your stove by needing the highest output, it's like buying a car that can go 55 max so you can go on the interstate. I wouldn't do that. One should not need to run near the max consistently.

 

[davidmsem]

The numbers are tough to compare.

What matters is the fuel input (box size), efficiency (similar), and how fast and slow you can burn down that load.

On the slow side BK wins.
On the fast side they likely are edged out by PEs.

But if you dimension your stove by needing the highest output, it's like buying a car that can go 55 max so you can go on the interstate. I wouldn't do that. One should not need to run near the max consistently.

Thank you very much! Despite all the science, I fear that the decision will be made by My wife based on the size of the backing plate. The Pacific energy summit has a huge backing plate and she will not be able to see as much of her brick. I don't really fear it I'm joking, and happy to get either unit. There are nice features of each unit.