Bigger saws!!!
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Barber chair has nothing to do with a hair cut but it can kill you. as for a bore cut your chainsaw will do fine as long as you know how to do your entry and how to control it. Make sure you leave a good amount of strap before you pop it off for the final fall.Yogi said:
- Aug 19, 2006
- 59
Watch a pro and learn so you dont get hurt. Be a good groundie first . Just pay close attention to detail.So much can and will go wrong. That is what I mean by stick to the brush. As you advance you will increase your capability and awareness. Then you will be ready for the bigger tree's.
- Sep 24, 2006
- 75
bobo said:
I kind of get what you are saying, what is a "groundie"? Maybe I can find a tree service to work for for a week and learn all of this from them! Coud I come work fo you bobo? I would do it for free just for the education, I think a week and I should have it down, don't you?
Yogi, 1 in 1000 loggers have a fatality accident. It is one of the most dangerous occupations in the US. We just lost a pro early this month due to a fluke accident cutting down a residential tree. Early this year a local logger barely survived a 50 ft fall from a tree. He lived with a fused disc, but is a much more sober cutter now.
Sh*t happens. Trees can have anomalies and weaknesses in the wood that cause them to fracture unexpectedly and in all the wrong places. There is tremendous weight in a big limb of a big tree, that can have a lot of leverage towards an unknown, unseen stress fracture. Out here the crotches of soft maples can have all sorts of embedded crap in their crotches. It may be spike or fence nails or rocks dropped by crows and gulls, but they're in there.
So the advice you are being given is to start out small and be patient. Learn the ropes, literally and take small steps here. There is actually a lot of wisdom, knowledge, common sense and safety involved in felling a tree. When it comes to big trees it evolves into an artform. Me, I leave it to the pros and work on the stuff on the ground after they're done.
Sh*t happens. Trees can have anomalies and weaknesses in the wood that cause them to fracture unexpectedly and in all the wrong places. There is tremendous weight in a big limb of a big tree, that can have a lot of leverage towards an unknown, unseen stress fracture. Out here the crotches of soft maples can have all sorts of embedded crap in their crotches. It may be spike or fence nails or rocks dropped by crows and gulls, but they're in there.
So the advice you are being given is to start out small and be patient. Learn the ropes, literally and take small steps here. There is actually a lot of wisdom, knowledge, common sense and safety involved in felling a tree. When it comes to big trees it evolves into an artform. Me, I leave it to the pros and work on the stuff on the ground after they're done.
I second BG's post. No one is saying you're incappable of learning. They're asking that you take it slow and steady. We just want you to be safe
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Yogi don't think you'r going to learn everything from a tree service in a week or two. It takes years to learn how fell trees and buck trees without getting hurt or KILLED. There are many diffrent factors you have to look at. Like theType of tree you are cutting, wind,is the tree sound,doesit have any rot at the base, is the tree leaning , are there more limbs onone side than the other. And thoes are only about half the questions you need to look at when cutting down trees. In my bis the top guys an I think it takes about 10 years in the field every day to handle almost any tree. But there are still days when some of us have to step back take a second look and CALL for some HELP.
Don't rush into anything. Take you'r time get good training, wear you'r PPE all the time and becarefull.
JOHN
Don't rush into anything. Take you'r time get good training, wear you'r PPE all the time and becarefull.
JOHN
- Sep 24, 2006
- 75
I really can't belive it would take that ong to learn most of what you need to know I don't know what these trees are, they have large leaves, with bark that comes off in big chunks with a stringey substance behind the bark, it is real stringy when you slipt it and it is almost like it is snowing in the summertime. Does that help any with the tree type?
I went back to the dealertoday, I still like the ms 441, and the dealerthought it would be a good size saw for me to work, and give me room to move up later on without it being too large of a saw, he really didn't think the ms 250 or ms 290 wouldn't be enough saw for me? Now reading what you are saying, and what the dealer is saying, it's quit different to me! I am getting very confused here, who do I belive, and why?
I don't know what these trees are, they have large leaves, with bark that comes off in big chunks with a stringey substance behind the bark, it is real stringy when you slipt it and it is almost like it is snowing in the summertime. Does that help any with the tree type?I went back to the dealertoday, I still like the ms 441, and the dealerthought it would be a good size saw for me to work, and give me room to move up later on without it being too large of a saw, he really didn't think the ms 250 or ms 290 wouldn't be enough saw for me? Now reading what you are saying, and what the dealer is saying, it's quit different to me! I am getting very confused here, who do I belive, and why?
Okay, I read through all the entries on this thread, and it's apparent to me that Yogi is goofing on us. %-P
Point here is, if yogi is goofing us or not, we need to be nice, Its not to hard. But Yogi, there is some serious darwinism going on here. You have to be carefull. Listen to these people, even the rude ones. This is a skill that takes time. It only takes one goof to be crushed by a tree. Bobo, no more stabs at yogi, you have a very antagonistic tone. Yogi, for gods sake, there are professionals here commenting on your thread, listen to them. Dont run out with a new saw and start hacking trees. Respect the saw, respect the tree, keep a exit zone clear of all debris, pay very very close attention to your back cut and watch it open up, dont make your notch so deep that it will make the tree unstable, wear a helment and face shield. And be carefull. Mostly we are here trying to keep you from getting hurt. You sound inexperenced, and big trees are not for newbies. Trees kill people, chain saws kill people. Watch your tip and keep your chain sharp. You came here looking for information. Take the advice given. Pros dont get 400-600 bucks for droping a tree for a skill they researched on the internet and bought a pro saw. They call them "pro's" for a reason.
My first saw was a husky 372 xp with a slightly larger displacement then the MS441, so its not out of the question for you to buy this, but when i bought mine, i had no visions that because i bought a pro saw that made me a pro. It scared me then, it scares me now, these saws have as much horsepower as a go cart. There heavier, and you fatigue faster, opening up the chance for accidents. there broad tip will take you to the bank if you catch it on something. A saw of this size WILL kill you if your not carefull, not to mention the tree. I didnt need a saw that big, but im a guy who always thinks more is better, thats not always the case, expecially in chain saws.
My first saw was a husky 372 xp with a slightly larger displacement then the MS441, so its not out of the question for you to buy this, but when i bought mine, i had no visions that because i bought a pro saw that made me a pro. It scared me then, it scares me now, these saws have as much horsepower as a go cart. There heavier, and you fatigue faster, opening up the chance for accidents. there broad tip will take you to the bank if you catch it on something. A saw of this size WILL kill you if your not carefull, not to mention the tree. I didnt need a saw that big, but im a guy who always thinks more is better, thats not always the case, expecially in chain saws.
Yogi said:
Yogi, exactly what is your experience with chain saws? How many years have you been cutting trees? Why are you making the claim that the lime green machine is the king of saws? Pride or experience? Where is this coming from?
> Now reading what you are saying, and what the dealer is saying, it's quit different to me! I am getting very confused here, who do I belive, and why?
And how much more is the MS441? And how much more does the dealer make? 2+2=?
- Sep 24, 2006
- 75
I do apreciate everyones concern, and I do respect where you are all coming from, even bobo makes some good points. He obviously has a lot more experiance than I, just has a hard time conveying it, which can be hard to do on these forums.
I have been running wild things for about 4 years now and have cut down a lot of trees with them with no problems yet. From litening to you it seems I must have figured it out quick, or gotten really lucky! The wild thing was the largest saw I was aware of until finding this site, if my signature is offensive I will gladly remove it for you, sorry. I saw the 372 on the eb, but no local dealers, and I think that is a good idea for me to have one for parts and education. I just really want to not to have to upgrade in the future, like I said before, one saw for everything I may need, now and latter.
I still can't see how not being able to see with the helmet/face shield is safer, but I will take you're word or it.
The dealertold me ms 250 with a 16" bar ws around $280 and another $50 or so for the quick adjust chain tensioner. The ms 441 with an 18" was around $750, he also told me he made about the same money on both saws, I don't know if that is true or not, but that is what he told me.
I have been running wild things for about 4 years now and have cut down a lot of trees with them with no problems yet. From litening to you it seems I must have figured it out quick, or gotten really lucky! The wild thing was the largest saw I was aware of until finding this site, if my signature is offensive I will gladly remove it for you, sorry. I saw the 372 on the eb, but no local dealers, and I think that is a good idea for me to have one for parts and education. I just really want to not to have to upgrade in the future, like I said before, one saw for everything I may need, now and latter.
I still can't see how not being able to see with the helmet/face shield is safer, but I will take you're word or it.
The dealertold me ms 250 with a 16" bar ws around $280 and another $50 or so for the quick adjust chain tensioner. The ms 441 with an 18" was around $750, he also told me he made about the same money on both saws, I don't know if that is true or not, but that is what he told me.
I'm with ChrisN.
But, I will give Yogi the benifit of the doubt.
Yogi, the helmets/hard hats that are spoke of here are logging specific. The helmet has a screened front shield. It doesn't hamper vision to teh extent of being dangerous. It is like looking through a screened door or window. The ear protection that is mounted directly on the side (but can be removed). ANY saw produces high noise volume that can damage hearing. Especialy to the operator. The Wild Thing by Poulan is a loud saw. You should be using hearing protection. Your owners manual (that came with the Wild Thing) will tell you the information that is being shared here. You NEED to read this information, if you haven't. Furthermore, logic would indicate that a larger tree indicates a higher degree of danger while cutting it down. If, in fact, you are legitimate, let me encourage you to seek out as much information on the felling of trees and the logging industry in specific. It is an INCREDIBLY dangerous career. Something you cannot learn in a week, month or even a year. The ratio of people that use chainsaw to the people that have injured by a chainsaw is very high. Chainsaws in general have a nature to "Kick-Back" and could potientially cut the operator. You have seen what it can do to hard wood, you should see what it will do to flesh. Hopefully, you never will. Statistics don't lie. Essentially, if you use a chainsaw you will be injured by a chainsaw. Hopefully it will be something as simple as a cut finger while sharpening or changing the chain. But most importantly I hope that you are one of the few people that will not be injured by a chainsaw. What everyone is telling you is that using a chainsaw IS ULTRA-DANGEROUS! We don't want you to get hurt.
With all due respect; from the content of your posts, it is hard for some here to believe your sincerity. I am sure that some feel that their intelligence is being insulted. With that said, I will say now that if I offended you in any way. I am sorry. Please, be safe.
Sincerely,
Mike
By the way. I believe the wood you are cutting is Cottonwood.
But, I will give Yogi the benifit of the doubt.
Yogi, the helmets/hard hats that are spoke of here are logging specific. The helmet has a screened front shield. It doesn't hamper vision to teh extent of being dangerous. It is like looking through a screened door or window. The ear protection that is mounted directly on the side (but can be removed). ANY saw produces high noise volume that can damage hearing. Especialy to the operator. The Wild Thing by Poulan is a loud saw. You should be using hearing protection. Your owners manual (that came with the Wild Thing) will tell you the information that is being shared here. You NEED to read this information, if you haven't. Furthermore, logic would indicate that a larger tree indicates a higher degree of danger while cutting it down. If, in fact, you are legitimate, let me encourage you to seek out as much information on the felling of trees and the logging industry in specific. It is an INCREDIBLY dangerous career. Something you cannot learn in a week, month or even a year. The ratio of people that use chainsaw to the people that have injured by a chainsaw is very high. Chainsaws in general have a nature to "Kick-Back" and could potientially cut the operator. You have seen what it can do to hard wood, you should see what it will do to flesh. Hopefully, you never will. Statistics don't lie. Essentially, if you use a chainsaw you will be injured by a chainsaw. Hopefully it will be something as simple as a cut finger while sharpening or changing the chain. But most importantly I hope that you are one of the few people that will not be injured by a chainsaw. What everyone is telling you is that using a chainsaw IS ULTRA-DANGEROUS! We don't want you to get hurt.
With all due respect; from the content of your posts, it is hard for some here to believe your sincerity. I am sure that some feel that their intelligence is being insulted. With that said, I will say now that if I offended you in any way. I am sorry. Please, be safe.
Sincerely,
Mike
By the way. I believe the wood you are cutting is Cottonwood.
- Sep 24, 2006
- 75
I will have to look at those helmets a little loser next time I am in at the dealer. I just looks from a distance that it would be hard to see out of one. My wife has been getting on me about the hearing protection, she thinks I am going deaf (I will let her continue to belive that) I have read the manual and hve experiance mild kickback before, but have never had the chainbrake engage as discussed in the manual. They really coverd the saftey stuff, over and over. I just figured it was to cover them from lawsuits, I know they are dangerous, look at all the acidents with table and band saws, and they are not being carried around! I guess I will have to step back a little more, my dealer did also point out an ms 361, might that be a little better for me? It didn't seem much larger than the wild thing, if I remeber right, it will run a 16" to a 24" bar?
I have a pretty thick skin, I am not taking any offense, they can belive, and post whatever they want, thats why it's America.
I have a pretty thick skin, I am not taking any offense, they can belive, and post whatever they want, thats why it's America.
It would be a great idea if you would check out the safety equipment at your local dealer. Especially the chaps, and hardhat. I ALWAYS wear hearing protection. I keep several pair of ear plugs in my saw cases, and have the earmuff style. Try to get plugs/muffs with a rating of at least 25. Some think it is not macho to wear protection (i.e. I am tougher than that) and that is just foolish. I lost hearing in my right ear and consequently do everything to protect what I have left!
- Sep 24, 2006
- 75
Thanks for the tip, I will have to get some of these things, I did a search fo the chaps, so many choices Wow, lots to choose from!! I may just get a set from the Stihl dealer, if I ever figure out what saw I need! Sorry to hear that you lost you're hearing, that sucks I may have to go talk to another dealer Monday and see if there is another opinion, and confuse myself even more than I am Glad there isn't more saw choices around here, never figure it out then
Wow, lots to choose from!! I may just get a set from the Stihl dealer, if I ever figure out what saw I need! Sorry to hear that you lost you're hearing, that sucks I may have to go talk to another dealer Monday and see if there is another opinion, and confuse myself even more than I am Glad there isn't more saw choices around here, never figure it out then
I am sure that there are other saws being sold in your area. Just look in the yellow pages. Most lawnmower type shops will carry different saws. There are many to chose from. I can only speak for what I have used. (Jonsered, Husqvarna & HomeLite) But there are others here that can be more than helpful. Maybe ask them what they prefer.
BTW, if you think the Wild Thing is a nice saw, wait till you try some of the others.
BTW, if you think the Wild Thing is a nice saw, wait till you try some of the others.
- Sep 24, 2006
- 75
Yeah, I am really excited to run something bigger, I never thought that I could own anything bigger than what I have, the ms 441 was heavy, but man, I can only dream of what it would be like to run that beast! WOW would that be cool I can just see those big trees hitting the ground and me cutting them up!
Cottonwood, thanks for that as well, I really like burning it, seems to burn hot and long! And with a bigger saw I cut more and burn even more than I have been Just need to find what is right for me No, there are no other dealers in my area, just two Stihl dealers. One lawn dealer sells Shiawies or something like that, but they seem weired and plasticy. So I am leary of them!
! WOW would that be cool I can just see those big trees hitting the ground and me cutting them up!Cottonwood, thanks for that as well, I really like burning it, seems to burn hot and long
! And with a bigger saw I cut more and burn even more than I have been Just need to find what is right for me No, there are no other dealers in my area, just two Stihl dealers. One lawn dealer sells Shiawies or something like that, but they seem weired and plasticy. So I am leary of them!
Yogi, How long does it take for your Cottonwood to season so you can burn it? What state are you in?
Thomas
Thomas
Iim thinking cottonwood grows in very wet conditions. It takes 2 years to dry cottonwood for burning in the northwest. Could your wood be a different species? But then again what does it matter!
Thomas
Thomas
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