Ashford 30.1 smoke smell

[webby3650]

Out of the many thousands of these stoves that are sold only a very few have this "smoke smell" problem. Magnehelic readings indicate the chimney is not the culprit. Just a matter of time and we will have this issue resolved. It will be something simple but elusive. I am working directly with the BKVP on this. How cool is that?! I worked in HVAC for many years and feel very confident about a forthcoming fix.

You are in good hands that's for sure! We work with about a dozen different stove manufacturers, none are even slightly involved with customer satisfaction. Not to mention troubleshooting or warranty issues! Hands down, they are the taking the lead in these fields.

 

[Highbeam]

Out of the many thousands of these stoves that are sold only a very few have this "smoke smell" problem.

Well now that is an assumption. Perhaps many have this problem but the owners:

1) Don't care.
2) Don't know
3) Don't call BK
4) Don't post on forums.

The huge majority of owners simply buy the stove and use it every once in awhile.

 

[webby3650]

Well now that is an assumption. Perhaps many have this problem but the owners:

1) Don't care.
2) Don't know
3) Don't call BK
4) Don't post on forums.

The huge majority of owners simply buy the stove and use it every once in awhile.

I'd say it's some of all the above.
I'm familiar with the smell, but it only happens when I'm running really really low, or when I go from high to low quickly. If you have to smell the door of the stove to detect it then I consider it a non event...

 

[Highbeam]

I'm familiar with the smell, but it only happens when I'm running really really low, or when I go from high to low quickly. If you have to smell the door of the stove to detect it then I consider it a non event...

In part because of this thread I've taken to sniffing my door nightly. Sometimes a little smell on the latch side, more often on the hinge side, but never in the room unless I open the door with fuel still burning.

 

[webby3650]

In part because of this thread I've taken to sniffing my door nightly. Sometimes a little smell on the latch side, more often on the hinge side, but never in the room unless I open the door with fuel still burning.

Same here

 

[Dieselhead]

What size gasket does the Ashford use, is it the 7/8" high density?

 

[HarvestMan]

In part because of this thread I've taken to sniffing my door nightly. Sometimes a little smell on the latch side, more often on the hinge side, but never in the room unless I open the door with fuel still burning.

A word of caution to anyone doing this. In time, the line between reality and your imagination may be difficult to determine. This is particularly true if the smoke smell is very faint. If you find yourself having to smell the "leak area" several times in a day ... you may be entering the twilight zone .

 

[kf6ha[]

Blueguy:

How is your fix holding out? Any smoke smell at all? You might have hit upon the answer. Could you explain your procedure and the exact materials used please so that others can replicate your success?

 

[blueguy]

Blueguy:

How is your fix holding out? Any smoke smell at all? You might have hit upon the answer. Could you explain your procedure and the exact materials used please so that others can replicate your success?

It's holding out pretty well. Since redoing my door gasket and raising the first turn point of the connector pipe by 9" (to reduce smoke spillage), there has been no smoke smell to speak of. All I did was remove the original door gasket with the weirdo flat wrap at the joint and install a new OEM gasket with the joint in the lower corner per the manual. I installed the gasket using a continuous bead of Ultra Black paying extra attention to the area between the hinges to ensure the gasket wasn't bunched up or stretched out. IIRC, the original gasket was held in place by intermittent blobs of what looked like furnace cement - not a continuous bead.

I should also mention that when I had the door off to redo the gasket, I added an extra strip of glass gasket between the glass and the retainer on the hinge side (between the glass gasket and the retainer) to make sure the smell wasn't coming from the glass. I also checked the tightness of the nuts on all of the retainer studs before installing the new door gasket. Once the door was back on, I let the RTV dry completely before firing the stove back up. I also had to adjust the latch as the door didn't seal quite as well with the new gasket. The door sealing was also not affected by the height of the studs under the gasket.

I'm happy to report that since the new gasket, I haven't had any smoke smell, and up until the temps dropped two nights ago, we have been burning low and slow 24/7 since mid-November

Lastly, if you watch the smoke swirling around in the firebox, you will see the air wash pushing down on it on the hinge side. On mine, the smoke smell seemed to start at about the same location on the door as where the air wash runs into the smoke. I've also noticed that (at least in my Sirocco) once the firebox is heated up, the smoke seems to swirl around the firebox in a clockwise manner, which may or may not have any impact on smoke seeping through the gasket.

Regardless, I am 100% confident that BK will come through with a valid fix that will sort this out once and for all.

 

[kf6ha[]

Thank you for the report. It is very helpful. I have a new OEM gasket on the way from BK. So I guess the real "fix" is the continuous bead of RTV. Did you let the RTV set up before you latched the door? How long did you let it cure before firing the stove?

 

[blueguy]

Did you let the RTV set up before you latched the door? How long did you let it cure before firing the stove?

Once the door was back on, I let the RTV dry completely before firing the stove back up.

Edit: I did not latch the door until the RTV was cured. IIRC, I let it cure for a 24hr period.

 

[Calentarse]

I should mention that even though 4' was added and my problems went away, I also had a new gasket put in. I can't ascertain as to whether the gasket, the elevated flue height and/or both fixed my issue. All I know is that it's over and I'm so happy! I'm following what others have done and wish you guys the best of luck.

 

[kf6ha[]

I am glad your smoke problem is now resolved. I am still trying to nail down what fixes this. It may come down to a combination of things being in place to achieve the desired results. Was a continuous bead of adhesive applied or were dabs placed here and there? What was used (RTV?) and, if possible, what brand? What brand gasket was used? What is your flue stack height now? By the way, I used to have a 2040 too. I love my Ashford 30.1. It has the best turn-down of any stove on the market. I can actually see and feel the thermostatic control work.

 

[kf6ha[]

When the Dave from A-1 comes out to replace the gasket, I will ask him if any RTV compound is "approved" for use in a cat stove. A wide array of compounds are used in the making of the various RTVs on the market. Some are specially formulated to not contaminate oxygen sensors. It might be the same for cats too. As a stop gap measure to reduce the smoke smell, I obtained and placed a piece of self-stick flat gasket, ~1/8" thick, on the hinge side of the door seal. It helped a lot. The smell is much reduced. It looks like adequate flue draw and an appropriately attached gasket is going to be the fix.

 

[rdust]

When the Dave from A-1 comes out to replace the gasket, I will ask him if any RTV compound is "approved" for use in a cat stove. A wide array of compounds are used in the making of the various RTVs on the market. Some are specially formulated to not contaminate oxygen sensors. It might be the same for cats too. As a stop gap measure to reduce the smoke smell, I obtained and placed a piece of self-stick flat gasket, ~1/8" thick, on the hinge side of the door seal. It helped a lot. The smell is much reduced. It looks like adequate flue draw and an appropriately attached gasket is going to be the fix.

The door gasket uses silicone from the factory. This is what Chris told me they used when I replaced my gasket. "We use 3M Dow Corning #732."

I used RTV red from the parts store which he said was fine.

 

[Woody Stover]

I don't see silicone being a problem for the cat. Once it's dry I don't think it's emitting anything. Reinstalled, you'll be running with the bypass open for a while, not pulling much through the cat and the RTV should cure, if it hasn't already done so by the time you put the door back on.

 

[blueguy]

As a stop gap measure to reduce the smoke smell, I obtained and placed a piece of self-stick flat gasket, ~1/8" thick, on the hinge side of the door seal. It helped a lot. The smell is much reduced. It looks like adequate flue draw and an appropriately attached gasket is going to be the fix.

This was one possible fix suggested last season based on some similar issues Woodstock was having. Part of their fix was some flat gasket...

 

[ohiojoe13]

When the Dave from A-1 comes out to replace the gasket, I will ask him if any RTV compound is "approved" for use in a cat stove. A wide array of compounds are used in the making of the various RTVs on the market. Some are specially formulated to not contaminate oxygen sensors. It might be the same for cats too. As a stop gap measure to reduce the smoke smell, I obtained and placed a piece of self-stick flat gasket, ~1/8" thick, on the hinge side of the door seal. It helped a lot. The smell is much reduced. It looks like adequate flue draw and an appropriately attached gasket is going to be the fix.

I really hope the new gasket fixes the issue.

 

[kf6ha[]

I am guessing a new BK gasket (same as the one in place now) with a continuous thick bead of RTV will stop the smoke from being blown through the gasket like you can blow air through a wad of steel wool. It worked for blueguy.

 

[Calentarse]

I am guessing a new BK gasket (same as the one in place now) with a continuous thick bead of RTV will stop the smoke from being blown through the gasket like you can blow air through a wad of steel wool. It worked for blueguy.

...and I'm thinking that at the very least played a role in working for me. The increased draft I'm sure helped but I'm left wondering if I even needed it had my gasket been right in the first place. No doubt it was when it came from the factory, but since ah had to remove the original to swap out the original bolts for the button one's, I'm sure I didn't bead it back up right.

I wish I knew info about what my chimney guy used when he redid my gasket. He didn't like either the gasket or the glue for BK for some reason, so when he replaced it he used all his own materials. He did muse that the cement sent to me by blaze king was silicone he thought, and I don't know why he didn't like it...I'm sure it was my fault in how I installed the gasket. That glue was running everywhere and I had no idea what I was doing. Better left to the professionals! Good luck!

 

[kf6ha[]

Everyone has their own way of doing things. Some people think silicone (RTV) adhesives won't work so they prefer the type that is like cement but the reality is RTV does work, if the right stuff is used. As for the gasket preference, I guess your chimney guy figured he would use the material that served him well in the past-his own stuff. How high is your chimney? Mine is 18' with no bends.

As a test you could remove the 4' of flue and see if things change. My problem is I can't go any higher as I am already very near the top of the ladder when placing the last piece of flue.

 

[Highbeam]

Everyone has their own way of doing things. Some people think silicone (RTV) adhesives won't work so they prefer the type that is like cement but the reality is RTV does work, if the right stuff is used. As for the gasket preference, I guess your chimney guy figured he would use the material that served him well in the past-his own stuff. How high is your chimney? Mine is 18' with no bends.

As a test you could remove the 4' of flue and see if things change. My problem is I can't go any higher as I am already very near the top of the ladder when placing the last piece of flue.

So with the thick bead of ultra black, are we talking a continuous pencil sized bead? Half a pencil? You lay the gasket in place on this bead while the door lays face down on a table, do you push it into the rtv? Does the rtv spooge out? Then you just leave it for 24 hours? Anything special at the butt joint? Do you cut to length with a dry fit and then lay down the rtv? Or do you cut as you go?

Seems very important to get this right. I'm due for a new gasket soon.

 

[kf6ha[]

On Wednesday Dave from A-1 will be installing the new BK gasket. From my readings of past posts, the factory uses dabs here and there to hold the gasket in place. My thinking is to fill the channel with a generous and continuous bead of RTV and let it squish out to seal the sides of the gasket thereby preventing the "blow through" caused by the door air wash. I will let you know what happens. Since the gasket change is the only thing we will be doing, we will know for sure if this is the fix. Small things can make all the difference. See post #109 in this thread.

 

[blueguy]

So with the thick bead of ultra black, are we talking a continuous pencil sized bead?

I laid about a 3/8" bead all the way around.

You lay the gasket in place on this bead while the door lays face down on a table, do you push it into the rtv?

Yup and yup.

Does the rtv spooge out?

Mine sponged out very slightly in only a couple spots. I wiped the larger spooges away.

Then you just leave it for 24 hours?

Yup.

Anything special at the butt joint? Do you cut to length with a dry fit and then lay down the rtv?

I didn't do anything special with the butt joint. I dry fit the gasket in the channel and cut it to length, leaving a little extra on the end "just in case". Once I had the gasket installed in the RTV, I cut the last unneeded bit off and pushed it into place. I also paid particular attention to making sure the gasket wasn't stretched at all, was centred in the channel and was a uniform thickness when installing it.

To ensure I had no leaks at the joint, I butted one end of the gasket all the way to the outside edge of the perpendicular channel and then pushed the butt of the other end into the inside edge of the opposite gasket end. If that sounds confusing, picture the ends of the gasket looking like this: |_

Even though the smoke smell never bothered me and I don't have the issue anymore, I really hope the fix is really as simple as a really good gasket installation

 

[Calentarse]

Mi

Everyone has their own way of doing things. Some people think silicone (RTV) adhesives won't work so they prefer the type that is like cement but the reality is RTV does work, if the right stuff is used. As for the gasket preference, I guess your chimney guy figured he would use the material that served him well in the past-his own stuff. How high is your chimney? Mine is 18' with no bends.

As a test you could remove the 4' of flue and see if things change. My problem is I can't go any higher as I am already very near the top of the ladder when placing the last piece of flue.

Mine is 17' with 2 45 degree bends. I can understand wanting to get that gasket fixed! 18' is quite high and I can't see needing to go higher. Let's hope the gasket fixes you up! Keep us posted.