And if both of you can't do that at a reasonable and competitive price, you're both in trouble. Mark my words, consumers will generally not buy at these over inflated prices. It doesn't matter if your cost of raw materials is high, most consumers have cheaper alternatives and they will often take them if given a choice. Consumers aren't going to feel bad for you or your dealers when you try selling them $300 pellets in 2009. A lot of people bought stoves during 2008 based on the oil bubble this past summer. Folks bought pellets based on fear of increasing oil/fuel prices, or afterwards because they now had a new stove and wanted to get some use out of it. Now that oil prices have drastically decreased and the new stove novelty has worn off, if pellet prices don't come down in 2009, some of you are going belly up. I don't mean to be rude or abrasive, but this is the reality.pellet gal said:
Anyone still needing pellets?
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A few years ago a Major paper company International Paper [ old Hammermill ] closed in Erie .
There were stories in the newspapers about small buisnesses that brought
them raw material , not having any one to sell [ From what I remember
saw dust ] their wares to . So with such a major papermill closed and
no where to sell their material that the paper mill used to use , why are they not
selling their materials to pellet mills ?
There were stories in the newspapers about small buisnesses that brought
them raw material , not having any one to sell [ From what I remember
saw dust ] their wares to . So with such a major papermill closed and
no where to sell their material that the paper mill used to use , why are they not
selling their materials to pellet mills ?
Anyone in business today knows that the quality of their product makes a big
impact on brand loyalty, but with our economic times getting worse by the day,
I expect many consumers will be ditching their brand loyalty in favor of the best
price in 2009.
impact on brand loyalty, but with our economic times getting worse by the day,
I expect many consumers will be ditching their brand loyalty in favor of the best
price in 2009.
Thanks for the response Pellet Gal, but I personally don't buy into it. I think that's what you would like us to believe. That somehow while your price for materials doubled (since May) you only passed along 50% of the increase to the consumer. Naa, I don't think so. In any case the price is what it is, for now. As for layoff's, don't blame us if you have layoff's. We have families to feed too. I don't expect people to continue to buy pellets at $300/ton vs. $2/gallon for oil. That's just crazy. I'm sure not going to. I think that a lot of people bought new stoves (me included) and we want to use them, it's fun, so we're all paying more than we would normally. Eventually the novelty of the stove will wear off and it will become what it should be, another choice or alternative for us, it will come down to price. I think you already know this and are capitalizing on the situation. That's fine, that's capatalism, that's America. It will all get sorted out and you will be forced to charge what the market will bare, or close.
Mike -
P.s. When I say "you" I don't mean you personally, I mean the industry. Sorry, I'm not trying to be personal.
Mike -
P.s. When I say "you" I don't mean you personally, I mean the industry. Sorry, I'm not trying to be personal.
CZARCAR said:
Quick, anybody have any first run Athens or something that one of the big boxes or Uncle Wally left outside in the rain?
You have a potential buyer here.
pellet gal,
please explain how come I can go to one of the local pellet moisturizers and buy pellets from all over the US and Canada for exactly the same price.
It looks to me like the price of pellets has been almost directly tied to the price of hho. I'm surprised that it hasn't been tied to the cost of propane.
In fact I can buy pellets from the west coast cheaper or at the same cost to me retail as I can from pellet mills in my home state through their dealer network. Things just simply don't add up.
They're definitely around. I just have to drive to them. Wish I owned a truck. Thinking about buying a used Forrester and trailer.
Mark
Mark
Deffy said:
Yup exactly. Next year I think I will add another chimney and hook up the wood stove again. I like my pellet stove alot, and I think the break off point if oil stays below $2.50 a gal. will be $250 a ton. I have a truck and am willing to do some extra work to stay warm and not burn foreign oil, but I'm not going to lose much money burning pellets. I can get some free fire wood, get 1-2 tons of pellets and burn very little oil. If the pellet industry can figure out how to get me pellets for $250 a ton or less I'll get 3-4 tons and support them. Of course if oil takes off to the $4.00+ a gal. range than all bets are off. And to answer the original question, I think there is a shortage because the dealer that I bought 2 tons from in Aug. (lignetics ) can't get a steady supply of product. If he could promise me another ton at $280 next week I'd support the industry and buy a ton now to get through this season and hopefully purchase 3+ tons in the summer for next year. And also I will NOT prepay or lockin or get on some dealers list to get pellets. To many false promises at best and ripoffs at worst. Cash and carry from now on for oil, pellets, etc. for me.
Schoondog
Allow me to count my blessings here in NW Wisconsin
Most I have paid was $215/ton 45 mins from my house. Have now found a better product 7 miles from my home for $200/ton.
I am buying them from a trucking company. They have figured out that there are enough pellet buyers in the area, that they buy and sell them to cover the backhaul costs they had from running trucks back home empty.
Good to be me this time
Most I have paid was $215/ton 45 mins from my house. Have now found a better product 7 miles from my home for $200/ton.
I am buying them from a trucking company. They have figured out that there are enough pellet buyers in the area, that they buy and sell them to cover the backhaul costs they had from running trucks back home empty.
Good to be me this time
There is not a bag available in St. John's Newfoundland, except for one pallet at Templeton's Paints, downtown, and they are selling for (now get a load of this) $17.00 per bag.
The Cottlesville plant is hung up looking for a dryer so all pellets have to come in from mainland Canada.
Newhook
The Cottlesville plant is hung up looking for a dryer so all pellets have to come in from mainland Canada.
Newhook
I believe pellet suppliers are taking advantage of a percieved shortage in the marketplace. Yes, there was a crazy run on pellets this year because of the oil bubble. Everyone feared a pellet shortage and paid whatever price to get what we needed. Supply is still tight in some areas, espeacialy NE. If it was simply a matter of raw materials, prices should be level as in years past.The fact that some of you can pay $215/ton and others over $300/ton proves the point.
Raw materials represent maybe 20% of the costs to manufacture. Those costs have probaly increased with all the problems in our economy. A 50% increase in raw materials costs does not add up to a 50% increase in retail prices. But as demand for wood products slows raw material prices should drop, just like the recent drop in oil prices.
Raw materials represent maybe 20% of the costs to manufacture. Those costs have probaly increased with all the problems in our economy. A 50% increase in raw materials costs does not add up to a 50% increase in retail prices. But as demand for wood products slows raw material prices should drop, just like the recent drop in oil prices.
The pellet industry is going to have to come with a more consistent supply of raw materials. As I read the online news articles, I am finding that more and more schools and businesses are installing pellet heating systems. Obviously, these installations will require bulk supplies of pellets. However, I don't think that the industry can stand for businesses and schools losing heat due to a pellet shortage. Incentives are being offered to be more enviromentally freindy. As more homeowners, businesses, goverment, and schools make a switch to pellet heat, there has to be a constant supply available. We can't allow schools to shut down, or businesses to lose additional money because there are no pellets due to raw materials in short supply.
There are trees. Trees can be regrown, hence the term renewable energy. The only pellet plants that are probably hurting are the plants that rely on a sawdust supplier who is in a volital economically affected business.
There are trees. Trees can be regrown, hence the term renewable energy. The only pellet plants that are probably hurting are the plants that rely on a sawdust supplier who is in a volital economically affected business.
compressedwoodsupplier said:
You still haven't shown us a lab report.
I'll wait for hossthehermit to report back.
Meanwhile I'm working through the last ton of the late July ash production shipment.
Lately I've been hearing a lot about how pellets are a good environmenatally alternative fuel only if they are made from waste sawdust. If trees are ground up specially to make pellets, it is very, very bad. The energy used to make these pellets is now contributing to global warming etc. In addition, because of these high energy costs, the cost of these pellets made from ground up trees will be much higher. Is there much truth to this theory?
If it is a theory where is the evidence to back it up and please be certain to ask for the raw data.
Remember if it is a theory they also need data to prove or disprove the theory.
Oh you need to get with the program the warming crowd has changed it to climate change, which I consider a hoot since the climate has always been changing.
There are at least 4 major earth orbital cycle factors and three solar cycle factors that would make it extremely difficult to pin anything to what we do when it comes to climate.
Folks that watch long term events in Russia say the the current climate period is coming to an end, but you can believe what you want.
Remember the cardinal rule always follow the money. Get your carbon credits here, quickly before there is no more carbon let alone credit.
Well it is time to burn a tree a bag at a time.
Remember if it is a theory they also need data to prove or disprove the theory.
Oh you need to get with the program the warming crowd has changed it to climate change, which I consider a hoot since the climate has always been changing.
There are at least 4 major earth orbital cycle factors and three solar cycle factors that would make it extremely difficult to pin anything to what we do when it comes to climate.
Folks that watch long term events in Russia say the the current climate period is coming to an end, but you can believe what you want.
Remember the cardinal rule always follow the money. Get your carbon credits here, quickly before there is no more carbon let alone credit.
Well it is time to burn a tree a bag at a time.
Here in Nova Scotia, we are struggling to find pellets.
In Aug '08 we were selling them for $4.49/ bag, the last load was $5.95/bag, now we decided to get hardwood pellets from the U.S. that we will have to sell for over $7.00/bag... I sure hope they will be worth it...
In Aug '08 we were selling them for $4.49/ bag, the last load was $5.95/bag, now we decided to get hardwood pellets from the U.S. that we will have to sell for over $7.00/bag... I sure hope they will be worth it...
Yeh if Pellets are $300/ton next year the wood stove is coming in the house from the garage...I can get wood for free if I cut it and I dont have a problem doing that. Take that pellet mills
A ton or two would get me into april and by then I would hope it would warm up
What do you have and what is the cost ??
I see your in Maine a long way up .
Rene
What do you have and what is the cost ??
I see your in Maine a long way up .
Rene
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