Sounds like his house is the size of a cabin, and shouldn't a load of wood burn longer? I'm not familiar with these stoves so I'm just asking.
Any ideas for an alternative to my Jotul 3cb
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PsychHike
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I went to the dealer when I was looking for a stove and THEY came to the house and assessed my living space..and made the recommendation - i actually liked the one that was the next size up, but they said given the size of the room that that stove is in (13' x 13' - which is pretty small) that this stove was appropriate for the space and the next size stove would blow out the room in heat. The 13 x 13 room gets up to 67 degrees, so regardless of warming the "house", it doesn't even warm up the ROOM!...
PsychHike,
That stove without a doubt will warm a 13x13 room - in fact it is going to have you in your underwear and a t-shirt when we figure out what is not working right. My 3CB is in a 20x14 room with cathedral ceiling and it keeps it in the upper 70's even burning lower btu woods. My reload times vary from 3 to 6 hours depending on the outside temps - I only need to run it hard and reload every 3 hours when it stays in the lower 20's or below. It would even keep the rest of my comfortable except much of the heat is trapped in my cathedral ceiling and my walls/floorplan is wonky. My point being this stove is perfectly adequate and a quality stove so we just need to figure out what is not working right in your specific case.
This stove has to be operated a specific way that may not be obvious. I received a lot of advice here, took me a bit of time to actually absorb the advice. Here are 3 key things about this stove:
1) make sure the lid is on good. It is held on by 2 set screws. Use an allen wrench to loosen, remove it and inspect the gasket and look at the impressions made in the gasket by the contact with the body of the stove. Make sure it looks like the gasket is sealing properly and there is no excess cement interfering. Also look on the lid and inside the stove for any black, sooty areas around the lid as this would indicate an air leak. An air leak from the lid can disrupt the optimal air flow and several of us have found simply reseating the lid made an improvement.
2) I thought my wood was dry because it looked like a dry as a bone. I was convinced it was dry because I was standing there looking at this dry split and thinking these guys online were crazy for challenging me over my wood. My first year my wood was not dry. I finally learned it was not dry by splitting a split open and I could tell it still held moisture. I bought a cheap moisture meter which confirmed it. My burns really improved my 2nd and third year once I got head in stacking my wood and had wood that was split and drying for 2 seasons.
3) Dampening down. This took a lot of discipline on my part. This stove wants to be dampened down in three steps, not two. You said you moved the lever to half way - I suggest this is wrong. Let the initial load come up to 500-600 and then dampen it down 1/3. It has to 'stabilize' and continue to burn energetically another 10 minutes or so and likely go up another 50 to 100 degrees, then dampen it down another 1/3. Now it will burn less active but still be burning good, stove it putting out heat and some secondary burn occurring. Give it 5 to 10 minutes, then fully close the damper. Your secondary burn should kick in and you will see this as jets of flame appearing from those holes in the top of the firebox. This process of closing it down by thirds takes about the first 30 minutes of a 3 to 4 hour burn cycle. After a season or so of succesful burning you will get better at understanding where your stove is and be able to make slight adjustments depending on how a given load of wood is burning.
Tell us about your wood. What type? How do you know it is dry? How long since it was cut? How long since it was split. Was it stacked where the sun and wind could dry it all season?
And tell us how much you put in your stove? Are you packing the firebox full or is there a gap between the top of the wood and top of the stove? How about a pic or two of your loaded firebox?
Your description of it initially getting hot, but quickly cooling off after you start to damper it down sounds like what I experienced by dampening it down too quick. And it can also be caused by wood with too much moisture. You can get wet wood burning pretty hot with lots of air, but it won't stay hot as you lower the air supply.
That stove without a doubt will warm a 13x13 room - in fact it is going to have you in your underwear and a t-shirt when we figure out what is not working right. My 3CB is in a 20x14 room with cathedral ceiling and it keeps it in the upper 70's even burning lower btu woods. My reload times vary from 3 to 6 hours depending on the outside temps - I only need to run it hard and reload every 3 hours when it stays in the lower 20's or below. It would even keep the rest of my comfortable except much of the heat is trapped in my cathedral ceiling and my walls/floorplan is wonky. My point being this stove is perfectly adequate and a quality stove so we just need to figure out what is not working right in your specific case.
This stove has to be operated a specific way that may not be obvious. I received a lot of advice here, took me a bit of time to actually absorb the advice. Here are 3 key things about this stove:
1) make sure the lid is on good. It is held on by 2 set screws. Use an allen wrench to loosen, remove it and inspect the gasket and look at the impressions made in the gasket by the contact with the body of the stove. Make sure it looks like the gasket is sealing properly and there is no excess cement interfering. Also look on the lid and inside the stove for any black, sooty areas around the lid as this would indicate an air leak. An air leak from the lid can disrupt the optimal air flow and several of us have found simply reseating the lid made an improvement.
2) I thought my wood was dry because it looked like a dry as a bone. I was convinced it was dry because I was standing there looking at this dry split and thinking these guys online were crazy for challenging me over my wood. My first year my wood was not dry. I finally learned it was not dry by splitting a split open and I could tell it still held moisture. I bought a cheap moisture meter which confirmed it. My burns really improved my 2nd and third year once I got head in stacking my wood and had wood that was split and drying for 2 seasons.
3) Dampening down. This took a lot of discipline on my part. This stove wants to be dampened down in three steps, not two. You said you moved the lever to half way - I suggest this is wrong. Let the initial load come up to 500-600 and then dampen it down 1/3. It has to 'stabilize' and continue to burn energetically another 10 minutes or so and likely go up another 50 to 100 degrees, then dampen it down another 1/3. Now it will burn less active but still be burning good, stove it putting out heat and some secondary burn occurring. Give it 5 to 10 minutes, then fully close the damper. Your secondary burn should kick in and you will see this as jets of flame appearing from those holes in the top of the firebox. This process of closing it down by thirds takes about the first 30 minutes of a 3 to 4 hour burn cycle. After a season or so of succesful burning you will get better at understanding where your stove is and be able to make slight adjustments depending on how a given load of wood is burning.
Tell us about your wood. What type? How do you know it is dry? How long since it was cut? How long since it was split. Was it stacked where the sun and wind could dry it all season?
And tell us how much you put in your stove? Are you packing the firebox full or is there a gap between the top of the wood and top of the stove? How about a pic or two of your loaded firebox?
Your description of it initially getting hot, but quickly cooling off after you start to damper it down sounds like what I experienced by dampening it down too quick. And it can also be caused by wood with too much moisture. You can get wet wood burning pretty hot with lots of air, but it won't stay hot as you lower the air supply.
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is split size. I burn a small fire box stove and there is a big difference in heat output in filling my stove full with 3 large splits verses full with 6 smaller sized splits.
agreed, but even 6 smaller splits (assuming a full firebox) should burn longer than his stated 30 - 45 minutes. But could be a factor. Splits for this stove should be big enough so you can only get 3 or 4 (I prefer 4 as I can usually fill most of the space better with fuel mass, 3 splits always leaves a gap somewhere).
Sorry, I didn't catch the thread hijack last night. I was thinking of englishteacher's sq ftg.. But based on the main complaint that the burn time is not long enough, I still say the stove is too small. The house apparently is a very leaky sieve if it needs the full output of the stove all the time. In that case one must compensate. It sounds like the house needs at least a 2 cu ft stove to achieve longer burn times. Our F3CB needed to be refilled every 4 hrs burning local softwood. A decent 2 cu ft stove will double that time. I would also suggest getting a stove with a blower.
Good suggestions wahoowad. Also make sure that the top lid is on correctly and parallel to the stove base. It is possible to put it on wrong so that it is at an angle to the body. This will cause airleaks that prevent good combustion. To check, look at the side of the stove, not the front, and look at the lid's angle. It should be at 90 deg. to the stove body.
BTW, what is the total sq ftg of the home? Is there a block-off plate at the lintel or damper level in the fireplace?
Good suggestions wahoowad. Also make sure that the top lid is on correctly and parallel to the stove base. It is possible to put it on wrong so that it is at an angle to the body. This will cause airleaks that prevent good combustion. To check, look at the side of the stove, not the front, and look at the lid's angle. It should be at 90 deg. to the stove body.
BTW, what is the total sq ftg of the home? Is there a block-off plate at the lintel or damper level in the fireplace?
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Much of this sounds like an exact replay of my experience. I got a lot of advice and tried a lot of things, all for naught-and for what it's worth some of the advice I actually paid for strained credulity, and of course did not work. I just finally, with the wife's OK, pulled the plug and got an Englander 17 vl. The dealer gave me a decent trade in, the Feds a $300 tax credit and the State of MD a $400 grant for increasing stove efficiency with an EPA cert stove. It has almost the same clearances as the Jotul which was something I needed, and the trade out install was no big deal. It is distinctive and attractive but in a different no-nonsense way. Among other things I liked it does not have an ash drawer which in the Jotul always made more of a mess for me than anything else It also heats for me twice as well. I can get the stove up to 700 no problem and it stays high and burns efficiently through the whole cycle rather that fading quickly. I'm going through less wood and my house is much, much warmer. The blower, which is not available for the Jotul3, is manual, and a beast that will blow you out of the room and helps circulation a great deal, another thing I needed with my home's layout. My home is much warmer, and I love wood burning again. Englander also has very accessable and helpful customer support. I actually met and chatted with the Englander rep I had had email conversations with at the efficient wood stove meet-up in DC recently. We had a great conversation.
Jotul has a rep as a very good stove-- my Bro-in-law has the Jotul3 and it kicks butt--just didn't work for me. But it's amazing how much less it hurt once I stopped banging my head against the wall and made the change.
BTW same chimney, same wood, entirely different result.
Finally, I've burned wood for 25 years, my experience recently made me wonder if somehow I had become a clueless idiot- so I kind of hear you. It was very gratifying to use the advice I've gotten, the help I've received on this website, consider it all and then just do what seemed to make the most sense to me.
Jotul has a rep as a very good stove-- my Bro-in-law has the Jotul3 and it kicks butt--just didn't work for me. But it's amazing how much less it hurt once I stopped banging my head against the wall and made the change.
BTW same chimney, same wood, entirely different result.
Finally, I've burned wood for 25 years, my experience recently made me wonder if somehow I had become a clueless idiot- so I kind of hear you. It was very gratifying to use the advice I've gotten, the help I've received on this website, consider it all and then just do what seemed to make the most sense to me.
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