Almost made a decision...my brain is broken.

[newbieinCT]

Incidentally, I forgot to mention this as part of my post. I can only comment on the difference between the Accentra insert's ash pan and the ash pan in the P68. The difference is astonishing. I just had to run my P68 for 10 straight days, as it's been ridiculously cold (not today...almost 60 degrees), and the ash pan still wasn't full. Running the Accentra insert we had for 10 straight days simply wasn't an option. I can tell you that in addition to the obvious difference in heat output, the difference in the size of the ash pan and the hopper were huge considerations for me. As much as I loved the look of the Accentra, it was a frustrating stove from the perspective that unless you went to bed at midnight and woke up really early, there was a good chance you were going to be out of pellets. The hopper didn't even hold one full bag, as opposed to the P68 that holds almost two full bags. Also, having to shut the stove down every 3 or 4 days to empty the tiny ash pan was tough during those really cold spells. Good luck with whatever choice that you ultimately make.

So great you said this about the ash pan. I know it's the XXV vs 61a but I was showing my husband yesterday at the store. He kept saying he didn't see much of a difference (it's not huge, but it's there). Then, we came home and he looked at our busted up old kozi XL ash pan and was grumbling about how even if we do get the kozi working again it's a piece of junk. I think he's officially a harman lover now He was even talking about the ash pan at a family get together. he's a very good student...haha

We are both drooling over the hopper size on both stoves, as well. Either one are bigger than what we have now....very excited about that!
Thanks for the input - things like hopper fill frequency is something I didn't really think about. We were focused on heater size and looks - mainly b/c until yesterday, husband was a insisting "it much have legs" . He's starting to see the importance of all the other qualities too...decision by tomorrow when the stove guy comes to check out the location.

 

[Hoot23]

Either way your going to be happy. Good luck.

 

[newbieinCT]

I can see the flow going toward the P61, but ihatepropane makes an excellent point. A 50k btu stove like the Harman XXV can burn 3.5 bags a day. That's ALOT. How many people here ever burn that much on the coldest days? The P61 can obviously output more btus, but most have already determined that the house layout will mean it will be difficult to move the heat all around.

My question is, given the house constraints, is having that extra capacity ever going to be used? It's not like the XXV is chopped liver. The hopper sizes are almost the same, and they're both over a bag and a half, which I consider the minimum for convenience. A big ash pan is great, who doesn't love a big ash pan, but I can easily burn a typical week's worth of high quality pellets, over 10 bags, in my stove, and it has an ash pan the size of a tea cup. Now that I picked up the PowerSmith ash vac, it's a breeze to vacuum out the pan, so my one concern, small ash pan, is no more.

Lastly, I was wondering if newbieinCT has considered moving the Kozy stove to the living room and putting the P61 in the kitchen. It all depends upon where you spend most of your time and where you want the heat, and it seemed to me that you might spend more of your time in the kitchen and dining room, than the living room. And, if that's the case, wouldn't it be more likely to get more heat thru the house, from the kitchen stove than the living room one, based upon the layout? I'm sorry for any additional food for thought, but a stove is a large monetary outlay and the choice is not one that one can change easily, so make sure you are happy with your choice.

Good point, chken...and all food for through is welcomed with open arms (and mind) in our house. We have been tossing around every idea possible...trying to think outside the box on this one.

As I expected, husband loved the XXV more b/c of the style. He did (without any nudging from me) say that the pseries is not bad at all - especially after seeing it in person - and he thinks we should go for whatever is best for our house. That was a load off my mind b/c I didn't want to get the 61a stove if he hated it. You are so right - the XXV is a powerful stove - I felt the p43 burning (they didn't have a 61a or xxv burning in either store we visited) and it was much cranking out the heat! Husband was also really sold on the harmans after he learned about the bottom feed and bigger ash pan. The stove guy is coming to the house tomorrow morning to check out the area for install and see the layout. He knows husband likes the XXV so if he thinks we will be fine with it, he will let us know. Personally, as much as I love the XXV, I can't get over that if that stove was the same heater (50kBTU) in the p-series is would be much less expensive. I think if the choice was over 2 different Pseries (50k and 61k) I would have no probably going for the lesser one if it fit our needs. Unfortunately, that isn't an option. The idea of spending $200 more on the XXV, for less BTUs and more style, bugs me. ..but then again, I always go uberpractical and to the point that I annoy myself about it
It's good to be on hearth.com to see how many people love their XXV and aren't disappointed they didn't go bigger. Having something you like to look at in the house is definitely worth it.

Also, about the kitchen...we absolutely would have preferred to install to the kitchen and/or the dining room - unfortunately, there is no space. This is the older area of the house and space is tight. the kitchen is lined with cabinets on one wall, two large doorways on the other and the 4th wall is a bathroom door and fridge and a kitchen island in the middle. The dining room would also be perfect but it's lined with doorways, built in bookshelves and windows. The two rooms in the house with very little wallspace...not a great layout for stove :/
I think, for now, this is best location. I hope the heat will move around with the use of some corner fans. We'll see what the guy says when he comes tomorrow...it's hard to explain in person or on the computer, so I think seeing it in person will be the best thing to figure out how much power we need or if he can find any other area to install.

thanks for the advice
Meg

 

[newbieinCT]

Either way your going to be happy. Good luck.

Thanks, Hoot!

 

[Mt Bob]

When your stove guy comes,have him bring a technician.Check out your chimneys,liners,you may have other costs involved.Also have tech look at kozi.I look at it this way-ford pintos were crap,but if you could fix it for 500 to start and run,why buy a caddy?I would get the harmon,fix the kozi,make sure installs are safe,put window film on and be warm the rest of the winter!PS look up bubble wrap and windows on the net.Bob

 

[Hoot23]

I would try to fix the other unit also, or find a solid used unit to put in its place.

 

[newbieinCT]

When your stove guy comes,have him bring a technician.Check out your chimneys,liners,you may have other costs involved.Also have tech look at kozi.I look at it this way-ford pintos were crap,but if you could fix it for 500 to start and run,why buy a caddy?I would get the harmon,fix the kozi,make sure installs are safe,put window film on and be warm the rest of the winter!PS look up bubble wrap and windows on the net.Bob

I'll give him a call today and request a technician. We will be venting through the wall - not chimney but it will be through an old wood stove vent, so we will have to downsize from 6" to 3" (i think) for the pellet. We definitely want to fix the kozi. We went to a a place that was supposed to be a kozi dealer (as stated on kozi website) but when we got there the guy says he only has kozy not kozi. going to have to tackle fixing the kozi next - we were just trying to secure a bunch of stuff (insulation guy/financing through CT, choose stove, juggle christmas stuff...etc). Husband gets the job of finding kozi guy....I have to hit toys r us for my baby niece's present. i"m a Bad Aunt and forgot to order her gift! Stoves are taking up too much of my brainpower
Looking forward to mid-jan when insulation and stove will all be in place
Thanks for the heads up on bubble wrap. Will do that after the store! Thank you

 

[Hoot23]

Nothing better than the Super Bowl and a pellet stove.

 

[newbieinCT]

Nothing better than the Super Bowl and a pellet stove.

True! And then we could have people over the house... It's been so cold we won't invite anyone over lol
tomorrow the stove guy comes and we make our final decision. Personally, i think he's going to have to talk me out of the p61 but we'll see what happens.. He may completely different idea after seeing the setup so excited... Hope I can sleep tonight!

 

[Justin M]

Which dealer did you decide to go with?

 

[newbieinCT]

Which dealer did you decide to go with?

We are going with Trading Post in Newtown. They were the best of the two options, in my opinion (which isn't saying much) . Ended up going on gut feeling since they were similar in price. Went to BlackSwan 2x and left with "eh" feelings. They could probably do a good job but TP but Dave at TP really listened to our layout and didnt really push us any direction or try and oversell a bigger stove... Said he couldn't really recommend without checking it out. Made me feel better... Although I'm a little concerned bc he's against OAKs and said installing floor vents w fans in ceilings wouldn't help (2 things I read here). I just don't want him to undersize the stove.
Did you use TP?

 

[Justin M]

I did use TP. I had SMWilliamson install my OAK a year later after I learned that I should have one. Listen to Dave's advice, but ultimately the decision is yours to make.

 

[newbieinCT]

I did use TP. I had SMWilliamson install my OAK a year later after I learned that I should have one. Listen to Dave's advice, but ultimately the decision is yours to make.

I plan to have him install an OAK no matter what... I've seen too many posts here from others that installed after.
I'll post after Dave comes!

 

[Justin M]

It's a good sign that he was willing to come out to you. BS wanted to charge for a consultation.

 

[newbieinCT]

Ok...So things went well with Dave, the stove guy. He knew my husband likes the XXV better and I'm undecided but leaning toward the p61.

He did a walk through and checked out the area we are trying to heat and layout of the house. His advice is: the XXV will do the job but we are going to be running it harder than if we have the p61. Obvious statement, I know, but one of the big questions on my mind was is the 50k BTU more than enough for the space and the p61a would be super duper overkill? Maybe we should really be looking at p423 vs xxv. After looking he agreed with what many of you said, which is that we need at least 50k BTU for that area. The XXV can heat the area we are trying to heat but it will be on higher setting, more fuel, etc. He says we will absolutely fine with the p61a. Once he saw the space, he said the p43 wasn't ideal if we want to get some of the air into the kitchen area (and we do). Thinks we will defintely need to use corner fan in at least one doorway to help move air toward kitchen but we should be ok, especially if we fix up the kozi stove. The ceiling fan upstairs on reverse will help move air into the front room and towards stairway. He took measurements and asked if we were going to remove the wood stove pipe or him. He said they could do it but it would be some more money - so I appreciated that he gave us the option. He kept saying that if we really wanted the XXV b/c of looks, it could handle it, we would just be using more fuel. In the end, I think of that as working it harder, a bigger heater is better anyway.

Looks like we will be getting the p61a!
Today was his day off, so we will call tomorrow and get the order in ASAP. It may be warm now but cold temps are on the way! That's when I'll also tell him that we want an OAK.

Also: he told us how to test our broken Kozi stove to check the sensor and fan. Turns out the fan is working fine. It's the sensor that's bad - so the fan isn't turning on. We just have to get a new sensor...so much cheaper than buying a second stove! We couldn't afford that right now!!

Thanks everyone for the advice. I wish I could explain just how helpful you guys have been....so so amazing.

 

[Tonyray]

Ok...So things went well with Dave, the stove guy. He knew my husband likes the XXV better and I'm undecided but leaning toward the p61.

He did a walk through and checked out the area we are trying to heat and layout of the house. His advice is: the XXV will do the job but we are going to be running it harder than if we have the p61. Obvious statement, I know, but one of the big questions on my mind was is the 50k BTU more than enough for the space and the p61a would be super duper overkill? Maybe we should really be looking at p423 vs xxv. After looking he agreed with what many of you said, which is that we need at least 50k BTU for that area. The XXV can heat the area we are trying to heat but it will be on higher setting, more fuel, etc. He says we will absolutely fine with the p61a. Once he saw the space, he said the p43 wasn't ideal if we want to get some of the air into the kitchen area (and we do). Thinks we will defintely need to use corner fan in at least one doorway to help move air toward kitchen but we should be ok, especially if we fix up the kozi stove. The ceiling fan upstairs on reverse will help move air into the front room and towards stairway. He took measurements and asked if we were going to remove the wood stove pipe or him. He said they could do it but it would be some more money - so I appreciated that he gave us the option. He kept saying that if we really wanted the XXV b/c of looks, it could handle it, we would just be using more fuel. In the end, I think of that as working it harder, a bigger heater is better anyway.

Looks like we will be getting the p61a!
Today was his day off, so we will call tomorrow and get the order in ASAP. It may be warm now but cold temps are on the way! That's when I'll also tell him that we want an OAK.

Also: he told us how to test our broken Kozi stove to check the sensor and fan. Turns out the fan is working fine. It's the sensor that's bad - so the fan isn't turning on. We just have to get a new sensor...so much cheaper than buying a second stove! We couldn't afford that right now!!

Thanks everyone for the advice. I wish I could explain just how helpful you guys have been....so so amazing.

Our new P61A With OAK.. Just threw a bag in and hadn't wiped up the crumbs yet,,

 

[newbieinCT]

Thanks for the photos...we've been reading all about installing an OAK, never really thought about what it would look like

 

[newbieinCT]

Ok...so I heard back from the stove dealer.

p61a is $3599. There is $100 off from Harman and he matches that. So -$200 = $3399

Asked for OAK install - he said it would be more difficult b/c he has to go through layer of brick (back of hearth that is already there)
He just messaged me that price of stove, install w/ OAK, +tax = $4785.

Higher for the install than I expected...i think it's b/c of the OAK and b/c they have to drill through the wall. We are taking down the old wood stove pipe ourselves. Is that unreasonable price?

He said I can call him on Thursday and we can go over pricing.

 

[lbcynya]

He kept saying...we would just be using more fuel...

Sorry, this, IMO is an ignorant statement by your dealer... The P61a will produce more heat when needed simply by design, but only because it can consume more pellets to do so. If you need 40,000 BTU to maintain temperature, the XXV ad P61a will use essentially the same amount of pellets since their overall efficiency within 2% of each other. Both should consume the same amount of fuel unless you heat requirements exceed the XXV. In that case, the P61a will keep eating more pellets to give you the extra 10,000 BTU's to maintain temp, or better yet, to simply maintain comfort. On a really cold day, let's say the P61 keeps your house at 70, but the XXV will only get it to 66; is that the end of the world, only you can decide. If you are concerned about using too many pellets and set the room temp to 65, either would have done the job...using about the same amount of pellets. By doing so, you wouldn't be using the P61 for the purpose you bought it...horsepower.

Obviously the numbers used are for explanation only, actual results will vary. But I want to insure that "comfort" is also a decision point between the 61 and XXV.

 

[MikeNH]

install w/ OAK, +tax = $4785.

What are you getting for the $1400 installation? Did he give you an itemized list of pipe, etc?

 

[Lake Girl]

You mentioned old 6" pipe through the brick already... Can't you use Selkirk DT or similar with exhaust pipe on the inside and an air void around it for the OAK? Not sure exact diameter of DT ...

 

[Enigma869]

Obvious statement, I know, but one of the big questions on my mind was is the 50k BTU more than enough for the space and the p61a would be super duper overkill?

I hate to sound like a broken record with this, but I've yet to meet a single person who wished that they had a smaller stove. I live in a newer; (built in 2005) and VERY well insulated house. I have a wide open floor plan (including an open staircase to the second floor). The staircase to the second floor overlooks the family room with my stove is. Even with my P68, I'm forced to run the stove at full throttle when it gets super cold. On a day like today (low 30's), I'm only running on number 3 (stove temp) and it's quite tropical in here. My experience has been that you'll ALWAYS be thankful for the extra BTU's for those days that you actually need them. I wish that Harman made a 90K BTU pellet stove. I'd buy it tomorrow!

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

I hate to sound like a broken record with this, but I've yet to meet a single person who wished that they had a smaller stove. I live in a newer; (built in 2005) and VERY well insulated house. I have a wide open floor plan (including an open staircase to the second floor). The staircase to the second floor overlooks the family room with my stove is. Even with my P68, I'm forced to run the stove at full throttle when it gets super cold. On a day like today (low 30's), I'm only running on number 3 (stove temp) and it's quite tropical in here. My experience has been that you'll ALWAYS be thankful for the extra BTU's for those days that you actually need them. I wish that Harman made a 90K BTU pellet stove. I'd buy it tomorrow!

So there are days that you go trlhrough 4.8 bags??

 

[newbieinCT]

Sorry, this, IMO is an ignorant statement by your dealer... The P61a will produce more heat when needed simply by design, but only because it can consume more pellets to do so. If you need 40,000 BTU to maintain temperature, the XXV ad P61a will use essentially the same amount of pellets since their overall efficiency within 2% of each other. Both should consume the same amount of fuel unless you heat requirements exceed the XXV. In that case, the P61a will keep eating more pellets to give you the extra 10,000 BTU's to maintain temp, or better yet, to simply maintain comfort. On a really cold day, let's say the P61 keeps your house at 70, but the XXV will only get it to 66; is that the end of the world, only you can decide. If you are concerned about using too many pellets and set the room temp to 65, either would have done the job...using about the same amount of pellets. By doing so, you wouldn't be using the P61 for the purpose you bought it...horsepower.

Obviously the numbers used are for explanation only, actual results will vary. But I want to insure that "comfort" is also a decision point between the 61 and XXV.

Thanks for this explanation - it fits more with how we understand pellet stoves and BTUs to work. Unfortunately, I think the dealer was just speaking in broad generalizations because he is used to people going to him to explain things and if it gets too complicated, it's overwhelming. We had done enough research to confuse ourselves but at least we had a better grasp on stuff than the average pellet stove person. We went in with specific questions. In the end, we used a combination of the dealer info, our own research and hearth.com advice to make a decision....with much more weight given to the advice here on the forums than what we got from the dealer since hearth is what my dad affectionally calls the "pellet nerds". I'll be rambling about what I read on the forums and he often checks in to see what the "pellet nerds" have to say
You all have been beyond helpful....so we are taking the dealer as a well intentioned guy but in the end, knows we will be happy with either stove, so he isn't too invested in the details.

Oh...and to answer your question, we did go with the p61 mainly for the comfort factor...it was the main factor. If we were going for looks, we would have chosen xxv. We will definitely be more comfy with the p61!

 

[newbieinCT]

What are you getting for the $1400 installation? Did he give you an itemized list of pipe, etc?

Not exactly sure - we are going to follow up on thursday and get the breakdown. He was dealing with a phone/internet outage in the area and we are headed up to my parents for the holidays. He said he would go over on Thursday but I'm going to ask for itemized list and explanation on what he plans to do for the OAK. I wish I could just trust it was the right thing but I won't be happy unless I know all the details (super annoying but it's better than regretting what he does)

I'll post when I know more on Thursday!