Advice / Review need: Regency CI2600 fireplace insert risky & costly?

[Wolves1]

I think you should be able to see the video. That is what think the perfect slow burn rate 45 min in. I filled it 8am at 6pm the cat temp was still 400 and blowing out heat.

 

[Jonny006]

https://vimeo.com/m/113171978

My stove has never burned at a rate as slow as your video.

 

[Jonny006]

Hi everybody, I have been reading all the posts closely as I have purchased this stove a couple weeks ago and am not getting even close to a 12hr burn time! I have fully seasoned red oak that was cut last winter and split last spring. I am only able to get around 4 medium splits in with a decent bed of hot coals and that seems to last at most 6 hrs. Last night I loaded the stove and went to bed at 11:00 and came down at 8 this am and there were minimal coals and no fan on. It seems that I am getting too much air into to the unit with the damper closed down. I took off the first set of washers yesterday and that has worked a bit, I have not taken the knockouts out yet and I ordered the cat probe temp gauge last wk. Any suggestions so that I may hit 10-12 hrs would be greatly appreciated.

Clearly, I am not alone here.

 

[Grisu]

Hi everybody, I have been reading all the posts closely as I have purchased this stove a couple weeks ago and am not getting even close to a 12hr burn time! I have fully seasoned red oak that was cut last winter and split last spring. I am only able to get around 4 medium splits in with a decent bed of hot coals and that seems to last at most 6 hrs. Last night I loaded the stove and went to bed at 11:00 and came down at 8 this am and there were minimal coals and no fan on. It seems that I am getting too much air into to the unit with the damper closed down. I took off the first set of washers yesterday and that has worked a bit, I have not taken the knockouts out yet and I ordered the cat probe temp gauge last wk. Any suggestions so that I may hit 10-12 hrs would be greatly appreciated.

When you say "split last spring" does that mean about 6 to 9 months ago? If that is the case, the wood is certainly not seasoned. Oak needs 2 to 3 years to season properly, i. e. to get the internal moisture content below 20%.

 

[Grisu]

I open the primary because otherwise the coals smolder. The cat needs heat to be effective so I don't understand how a low temp or cool reading will allow this to happen.

A cat stove "smolders" when the cat is not in the active zone which in your case starts above 600 F according to the manufacturer. In the active zone, it will "eat" all the smoke particles and convert them into heat. The air should be adjusted that the cat stays above 600 F.

I have been saying all along that I feel like the heat is going right out the chimney. There is no other logical place for it to go since it's certainly not going out into the house. Grisu you ask the question "I wonder what is happening in between" Well, I do to.

And I disagree with your comment on that it's up to me to get the insert to perform better. The insert is not working as described and while I have attempted to use the suggestions thus far, none have yielded the kind of results others have described.

Woodstoves rely on proper operation by the operator. For a "set and forget" kind of appliance look at furnaces or pellet stoves. We are trying really hard here to help people get the most out of their units but that requires an open mind on part of the new member and the willingness to answer questions and try the suggestions we make. Right now, I mostly read complaints from your side. It sounds like you have made up your mind that the insert if crap. That's fine, talk to your dealer and see whether you can return it. Beyond that I am feeling that answering your posts here are a waste of my and the other members' time. Can you feel my frustration?

The stove is in an existing fireplace. 25' chimney that is sealed at the top only. I did not install a block off plate above the stove as I was instructed by my dealer, as well as the rep from Regency that this was not needed. They both stated that the liner inside the masonry chimney acts as a thermos and that by installing the plate there is little to no effectiveness.

Most installers are reluctant to put a block-off plate in because it is more work. What happens is that warm air will rise up in your chimney, cool down at the brick walls, the cold air will fall down again, gets heated by your insert and so on. Especially with an exterior chimney you are running a giant heat exchanger that is heating your yard, not your house. Take a look at these two links:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/
Maybe you can retrofit it in or at least install them when you get a new insert/stove.

My old stove was a 30yo VC Encore Defiant. Same setup into an existing chimney with a liner. It was a dream. Fill it with wood, set the thermostat, enjoy hours of heat, repeat. It was $500 from Craigslist with maybe another $800 added in the 4 years I used it. This insert was close to $4000 with liner. Can you understand my frustration?

Encore or Defiant? The Defiant is a 3+ cu ft stove. You essentially downsized your appliance and put it in a setting where you are losing more heat to the outside. Albeit old, those VC stoves were already very efficient. Even with "newer" tech there is not a lot more heat a modern stove can get out of given load of wood. It's like going from a 85% efficient oil furnace to a 95% efficient one. No one should expect to see a major reduction in their oil bill.

Coming back to the bypass: Take a look at the scheme on page 5: (broken link removed to http://www.regency-fire.com/Files/Brochures/Regency-ProSeries-brochure.aspx)
If that bypass is leaking, then a lot of smoke and hot air will go up the back of the firebox right into the flue without passing the cat first. That may well explain why you feel most of your heat goes up the chimney.

 

[Jonny006]

A cat stove "smolders" when the cat is not in the active zone which in your case starts above 600 F according to the manufacturer. In the active zone, it will "eat" all the smoke particles and convert them into heat. The air should be adjusted that the cat stays above 600 F.
I understand. The issue is that the temps fall off dramatically and the only way to achieve the 600F is to add more wood which is now contributing to the coal bed.


Woodstoves rely on proper operation by the operator. For a "set and forget" kind of appliance look at furnaces or pellet stoves. We are trying really hard here to help people get the most out of their units but that requires an open mind on part of the new member and the willingness to answer questions and try the suggestions we make. Right now, I mostly read complaints from your side. It sounds like you have made up your mind that the insert if crap. That's fine, talk to your dealer and see whether you can return it. Beyond that I am feeling that answering your posts here are a waste of my and the other members' time. Can you feel my frustration?
Hold on there. I did say I was willing to make this work and appreciate all the suggestions. Clearly Grisu, you have considerably more experience with this than I, and the whole reason I am on this forum is to make this work. I am frustrated by the amount of effort this has required to achieve what I would consider a modicum of the manufactures claims. I know that stoves are work. The payoff is a warm house without giving the money to the Saudi's. I did ask the question if I was expecting too much of the stove and used my previous stove as an example. And yes I did give the wrong model. It was a Defiant Encore with a cat.
So, I apologize if you feel that answering my posts and making suggestions is a waste of time. That was and is not my intention.


Most installers are reluctant to put a block-off plate in because it is more work. What happens is that warm air will rise up in your chimney, cool down at the brick walls, the cold air will fall down again, gets heated by your insert and so on. Especially with an exterior chimney you are running a giant heat exchanger that is heating your yard, not your house. Take a look at these two links:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/
Maybe you can retrofit it in or at least install them when you get a new insert/stove.
I installed my stove. I asked about the plate and was told it was not needed. I can always put one in. And before you question my install it was inspected by the dealer and rep and both commented on how well it was done. Even offered me a job doing it. I turned them down


Encore or Defiant? The Defiant is a 3+ cu ft stove. You essentially downsized your appliance and put it in a setting where you are losing more heat to the outside. Albeit old, those VC stoves were already very efficient. Even with "newer" tech there is not a lot more heat a modern stove can get out of given load of wood. It's like going from a 85% efficient oil furnace to a 95% efficient one. No one should expect to see a major reduction in their oil bill.

Coming back to the bypass: Take a look at the scheme on page 5: (broken link removed to http://www.regency-fire.com/Files/Brochures/Regency-ProSeries-brochure.aspx)
If that bypass is leaking, then a lot of smoke and hot air will go up the back of the firebox right into the flue without passing the cat first. That may well explain why you feel most of your heat goes up the chimney.

I'm looking at the stove right now. It's burning well since I took out an entire bucket of coals last night. With the cat and damper closed the flames are flowing forward and entering the cat which is glowing red hot. Temps are currently 750F.
I loaded it up last night at 1130. At 730 the fan was on still and blowing warm air. First time ever. I think now the big issue is that bed of thick coals. So maybe Grisu you are correct. Perhaps the reducer is reducing too much now. Maybe its not allowing enough air in to burn through the bed of coals?

 

[Grisu]

750 F sounds ideal if you want to get steady heat for a long time. Let the insert go through the burn as is and see how long the cat temp stays in the active zone. For the future, I would leave the reducer plate in place and instead use the air control to adjust your burn rate. There is no harm in leaving the primary air a tad open for example to see how that affects temp and burn rate.

Btw. New catalysts are often highly active when new and need a few weeks to settle in and burn more to specs. Not sure if anyone mentioned that yet.

 

[J RD]

My reducer plate from regency came in. Below is a picture of it compared to the stock pilot hole on our floor model:




And for the person who asked a few pages back... Here is a picture of the primary air inlet on the Regency 5100:

 

[marty22877]

Jonny - it sounds like you ran into what happened to me. i didnt clean the ashes out and the coal bed got huge and snuffed the fire out. Once i removed the ashes i was burning like a champ again.

 

[marty22877]

J RD - how did the screws work out for you? I havent had a chance to put them in yet

 

[J RD]

J RD - how did the screws work out for you? I havent had a chance to put them in yet

The screws worked out okay. I've noticed that the restriction that they provide is very beneficial at the early stages of the burn and make the primary air control much more sensitive. However, it seems like once the burn really gets going, the flames take off like they did before putting the screws in place and the cat temp will shoot right up to 1300-1400. This leads me to believe there is also too much air coming in through the secondary burn tube. It's almost like once the fire gets roaring it still has a pathway to draw the air it's asking for from the burn tube which again makes the primary air control ineffective. In the end I would say the screws took me from a 6-7 hour burn to a 8-9 burn time.

Here is a pic of the screws in place (looks ghetto, I know). Keep in mind I was just looking for something to lay in place that would help restrict air until I received my plate.



I just installed the plate from regency (see pic below). It's 60 degrees here in Maryland today so I probably won't fire her up again until tomorrow at the earliest.

 

[Wolves1]

My reducer plate from regency came in. Below is a picture of it compared to the stock pilot hole on our floor model:




And for the person who asked a few pages back... Here is a picture of the primary air inlet on the Regency 5100:

Thank you

 

[marty22877]

Awesome, thanks. And did recency have anything to say?

 

[Wolves1]

I got a question after 12 years of burning this is the first year actually have a moisture meter. I had my wood delivered in early May, the reading was 45% to 50% at time of delivery. I just took a reading on the outside it's about 13% I split the wood and on the inside it ranges from 22% to 27%. Is that acceptable?

 

[Grisu]

I got a question after 12 years of burning this is the first year actually have a moisture meter. I had my wood delivered in early May, the reading was 45% to 50% at time of delivery. I just took a reading on the outside it's about 13% I split the wood and on the inside it ranges from 22% to 27%. Is that acceptable?

It's mediocre but you can probably make it work. Supplement it with some dry wood like lumber scraps or Bio-Bricks etc. Be vigilant about burning down the coals and keep an eye on your chimney. It may need a cleaning or two during the season.

 

[Wolves1]

It's mediocre but you can probably make it work. Supplement it with some dry wood like lumber scraps or Bio-Bricks etc. Be vigilant about burning down the coals and keep an eye on your chimney. It may need a cleaning or two during the season.

What would be the perfect rang? Would it continue to season during the winter months?

 

[Grisu]

Perfect range is about 15% to 20%. Most woodstoves are adjusted to burn wood with ~17% moisture at optimum efficiency.
The wood will season a little bit over the winter but don't expect too much. From saturated down to 25% is the free water that is in the wood fibers. That dries relatively quickly. To get below 25% the wood bound within the cells needs to be removed which entails breaking down of the cell walls. That needs time and good drying conditions.

 

[Wolves1]

Perfect range is about 15% to 20%. Most woodstoves are adjusted to burn wood with ~17% moisture at optimum efficiency.
The wood will season a little bit over the winter but don't expect too much. From saturated down to 25% is the free water that is in the wood fibers. That dries relatively quickly. To get below 25% the wood bound within the cells needs to be removed which entails breaking down of the cell walls. That needs time and good drying conditions.

i'm not sure if you were able to see the video I posted. What I thought was a slow burn if I would have wood in the 15 to 20% ( I'm assuming on the inside) it would burn longer and hotter?

 

[Grisu]

I saw the video and thought that looked pretty good. The question is for how long can you sustain the burn an do you have a problem with excessive coals?

 

[Wolves1]

I saw the video and thought that looked pretty good. The question is for how long can you sustain the burn an do you have a problem with excessive coals?

That burn was yesterday and it went for about 9 1/2hours, at the end no problems with coals about a shovel full and they still have a glow with a stove temp of 350. How much better do you think the stove would be if I have wood down under 20%?

 

[Jonny006]

I just went outside to check on my chimney. It was 48 today so not that cold but I had the stove going all day. I put my hand on the chimney and it was definitely warm. I also noticed an area of @3' on the roof where the snow had melted off next to the chimney. I am definitely losing heat out there. A plate and insulation I think are necessary.
I had a good fire going earlier today but after 4hrs the wood was gone and the stove was only putting out 400F on the thermometer. I stirred up the coals and added one big split. Cracked the door until it was engulfed and the temp was 700F. Closed the door and cat and it has been burning nice and slow for @1hr with decent heat. Temp is 650F but the damper is open half way. If I go all the way the temp drops to @400F. I want to add more wood but I fear that it will only build up that coal bed again, minimizing the wood space and not work.

Grisu, correct, I had the Defiant Encore with cat. It was a beast and I loved it. I wanted to buy the same stove but was told my clearances would not allow it.

I think part of the problem is the heat loss out the chimney. Maybe this week I will pull the stove and add some durock and insulation. Maybe that will help. Thanks for the links to that.

 

[NH Burn]

Thank you for your input, I was completely unaware of seasoning red oak for 2+ yrs.I generally cut all my oak in january and split it all soon after until March. My wood seems to burn very well but I am curious to know if this may be the reason I'm not getting the extended burn times! Check out my slow burn video and tell me what you think. Thank you.

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[Grisu]

Thank you for your input, I was completely unaware of seasoning red oak for 2+ yrs.I generally cut all my oak in january and split it all soon after until March. My wood seems to burn very well but I am curious to know if this may be the reason I'm not getting the extended burn times! Check out my slow burn video and tell me what you think. Thank you.

Lots of yellow flames which indicates an incomplete burn. Optimally, the flames should be more orange-blue. It also looks like you don't have the air all the way closed? That would be normal with wet wood as it needs more air in order to burn somewhat. Check the wood with a moisture meter and try burning some dry wood like lumber scraps or artificial wood logs Bio-Bricks etc. to see the difference.

 

[Grisu]

That burn was yesterday and it went for about 9 1/2hours, at the end no problems with coals about a shovel full and they still have a glow with a stove temp of 350. How much better do you think the stove would be if I have wood down under 20%?

Not sure how much better the insert would perform as the video looked pretty good. Maybe your moisture content is ideal for the air settings Regency engineered the stove for. That would be in line with the other reports here that the insert lets too much primary air into the firebox. Right now, I would suggest keep doing what you are doing and check your chimney regularly.

 

[Wolves1]

Not sure how much better the insert would perform as the video looked pretty good. Maybe your moisture content is ideal for the air settings Regency engineered the stove for. That would be in line with the other reports here that the insert lets too much primary air into the firebox. Right now, I would suggest keep doing what you are doing and check your chimney regularly.

Thank you