Yes you can but i like to keep them it means no risk of blocking the flue with stuff thst falls down easier inspection and many times easier cleaning from the bottom.
Advice on new stove
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My wife and I both like a little fresh air. We have 3 dogs and it gets kind of stuffy, hairy, and just not very good air in the winter in our house. And with how tight the house I have to have some supplemental air or the fire gets smoldery if that's a word.
I will do some research and try to find some options that can throttle down below 10k btu
WoodyIsGoody
Minister of Fire
Your Btu requirements are so low I would consider one of the Blaze King 20.1 catalytic models. You might even consider insulating the inside of the firebox with higher R value pumice firebricks, fiber blankets behind the firebricks and/or infra-red reflective coatings. This will maintain higher combustion temperatures and allow the catalytic converter to stay active with smaller fires and slower burn rates. The firebox on the 20.1 models is small but you won't have any trouble burning 24/7 adding wood morning and evening.
That is a good indication of how little heat you now need to keep the place warm. 4000watts is about 13.6K btus. Difference being that an electric heater can cycle on/off. A stove is steady state.
With the liner installed the cleanout may be eliminated unless you want to drop a bottom leg from the tee to the cleanout door. Usually though it is just capped at the tee.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
1 watt = 3.41 BTU (easy to remember, like pi, but reverse last two digits)
So, your 4000 watt heater would be only 13.64k BTU, if it were on 100% of the time. You said it cycles on and off, and has no trouble keeping the place warm in the coldest weather. That's really surprising, as I've never lived in a house anywhere near that tight (I use 300 million BTU's per year), but you know your house. Scale that 13.64k BTU number by whatever duty cycle you think that 4kW heater is cycling.
(edit: I see begreen just posted almost the same thing, at the same time I was typing)
Remember it's not just the heater keeping the house warm, it's a large thermal mass of flagstone that absorbs a ton of heat in the winter because of the low sun angle, 3 dogs, 2 humans, heat from cooking, showers, small amount of heat from hot water heater, and I'm sure I'm missing a few things.
It's just the only thing that changed was the turning the stove off and turning the heater on.
I couldn't tell you if the heater ran 20% or 50% or 80% I just know it did cycle on and off. Probably more so during the day when we were awake.
It's just the only thing that changed was the turning the stove off and turning the heater on.
I couldn't tell you if the heater ran 20% or 50% or 80% I just know it did cycle on and off. Probably more so during the day when we were awake.
Yes, you've insulated and sealed well enough for the appliances, lighting, body heat, solar, to directly contribute to the house's heating load. Your wood heating needs are quite low. The smaller Woodstock makes sense in this context. You might want to call Woodstock again and ask about options for supplying outside air to the Keystone or Palladian if that is the route you choose to go.
Whoops, the 20 series bk stoves actually make more heat on their low setting than the 30. It just has a smaller fuel tank.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Do you believe this? BK has not been consistent with their posted numbers (three different sets of numbers reported for Ashford 30), and I suspect this is just another case of that.
Yes. But more important than the low btu output figure being slightly higher than any of the posted low btu output numbers for the 30 is the very obvious smaller firebox size and drastic effects on maximum burn time. I don't like the 20. I'm still a little bitter that they didn't make a bigger stove on a 6" flue! Would rather have a 20 in a small home than a non-cat though.
I don't know what's up with the BK specs for the 30 series ashford (maybe all 30 boxes) but from all the specs and user experience like yours I believe that they have an excellent turn down rate.
I know that my 7.3 diesel engine from international has a freaking stamp on the valve cover that specifies max torque and horsepower for that model of engine in that delivered configuration. Would be nice if BK got the specs consistent or at least could explain the discrepancy.
So expanding on this a little bit as I'm working on narrowing the stove choice down. I'm using everyone's advice and working with a couple local stove dealers to see what I can find that will work.
I decided to put in a passive air inlet with the automatic dampener. It's set to open when the house is expelling more air then is taking in.
The inlet is positioned about as low in the house as can be without being on the floor. The dampener is functioning correctly but it's not opening?
I'm wondering is this is because it's hot out and the the pressure is pushing outwards on the bottom floor or if we are just not expelling enough air to make it open? I have tried running the dryer and bathfans all at the same time and it didn't open?
Any thoughts? And I really appreciate everyone's advice and thoughts so far even though some are opposing views it just shows how finicky these situations can be trying to solve.
I decided to put in a passive air inlet with the automatic dampener. It's set to open when the house is expelling more air then is taking in.
The inlet is positioned about as low in the house as can be without being on the floor. The dampener is functioning correctly but it's not opening?
I'm wondering is this is because it's hot out and the the pressure is pushing outwards on the bottom floor or if we are just not expelling enough air to make it open? I have tried running the dryer and bathfans all at the same time and it didn't open?
Any thoughts? And I really appreciate everyone's advice and thoughts so far even though some are opposing views it just shows how finicky these situations can be trying to solve.
Most likely it is because of the hot air in the house. Once it gets colder, there will be more of a difference, because the cold air from outside will really want to make it into the house.
Your fans must not be strong enough to overcome the load of the auto damper or your house just isn't as tight as you think it is and make up air is more easily brought into the house through your leaks than through the damper.
Air temperature has nothing to do with it. If it did, you would get a blast of air in or out when you open the front door and then it would be equalized.
i guess it will depend on where the fans are that you have turned on, and if you have any other windows, doors, etc being opened. In the summer, hot air is going to be harder to move when there is the same temperature outside, especially if you are trying to suck all of the hot air out of your house with your exhaust fans. It will be difficult to get enough movement to cause the auto damper to work properly.
In the winter, with colder air coming in, it will be easier to get the air to move. Highbeam is correct though, if your house is really tight, you will notice that it is hard to pull open the doors no matter what season it is.
During the winter it is obvious that the house is way to tight with the stove running. Open window and the fire goes from trying to die to running like a normal fire.
The summer time it's not as clear. The front door will slam if you let it slip out of your hand while closing. Front door is bottom floor of a 2 story.
Bath Fans are one on each floor. Dryer is on bottom floor.
It almost seems like the bottom floor is over pressurized in the summer and that is where the auto dampener is.
Inside temp is around 69 during the day right now and outside temp is around 95.
Maybe this helps clarify? It doesn't for me but maybe somebody that has a better understanding it will.
The summer time it's not as clear. The front door will slam if you let it slip out of your hand while closing. Front door is bottom floor of a 2 story.
Bath Fans are one on each floor. Dryer is on bottom floor.
It almost seems like the bottom floor is over pressurized in the summer and that is where the auto dampener is.
Inside temp is around 69 during the day right now and outside temp is around 95.
Maybe this helps clarify? It doesn't for me but maybe somebody that has a better understanding it will.
That was my thought as well which is why I added the passive air intake near the stove with the auto dampener.
The problem is the dampener won't open??? Maybe that will change in the winter but I am trying to work out all the bugs while the weather is good this summer and I'm not sure that this intake that I added is the solution?
What is this automatic damper? What makes it automatic? Is there just a flapper valve or is there a motor on it?
No motor. Maybe a bad choice of words on my part.
It has a flapper that is VERY sensitive to air current. Its suppose to open if the house is expelling more air then it is taking in.
That sounds backward. Does the flapper swing inward toward the interior or outward toward the exterior?
It's interchangeable but I have it set to swing in. The way it's set it should open if the air is exiting the top of the house to allow air to enter the bottom of the house.
Well at least that's the way I understand my issue but thats also why I am borrowing some knowledge from you guys because I'm not 100% sure I'm understanding everything correctly.
OK, swinging in is correct. Turn on the kitchen and bath fans and maybe the clothes dryer and check the swing. Of course this will be with all windows and doors closed.
I did that and it does not open. I checked the air current inside the wood stove right now and it's an if rush of wind coming down the chimney so I'm thinking that's where the air is coming into the house instead of the inlet I installed.
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