Advice: Ideal Steel or Blaze King Princess

[freeburn]

I know I may be starting a war here, but I'm a little torn between these two stoves. I've looked over the forums, but each situation is unique.

I can get a 2 yr old Blaze King Princess with Convection deck, blower(s), nickel door trim, in a parlor for around $1700 maybe less.

I'm also looking at the IS new, but it would be around $2700-$300 tax credit =$2400 after shipping

I understand how both stoves work and that the IS has secondary burn and cat, but Blaze King has cat only. Blaze king has a reputation behind their stoves and I know they burn long and can burn hot. I've heard the same for the IS.

I live in Midwest plenty of cold - several days to weeks of subzero temps. House is 2600 sq ft, 12 years old, and well insulated. Just want consistent heat and not have to tend the fire so much, but would also like to heat the whole house with basemen install. I am able to do that now with my 30NC, but would like a more consistent burn.

Anyone who has experience with either stove feel free to chime in. Thanks!

 

[Ashful]

No experience with the IS, but I'm amazed by my Blaze Kings. Not many complaints on this forum about either. If you can tolerate the looks of the Princess, I'd go that way, on price alone! Either will do a good job of consistent heat over the burn, when compared to a 30NC.

 

[Babaganoosh]

Go with the blaze king. The IS is way too good looking to put in the basement.

 

[rdust]

Honestly the magic of a BK is the low burn. Heating from the basement I doubt you'll ever appreciate the low burn abilities. From the basement it will burn like any other 3 cubic foot stove in terms of burn time.

Does the 2600 include the basement? Sounds like a king is a better fit!

 

[freeburn]

Honestly the magic of a BK is the low burn. Heating from the basement I doubt you'll ever appreciate the low burn abilities. From the basement it will burn like any other 3 cubic foot stove in terms of burn time.

Does the 2600 include the basement? Sounds like a king is a better fit!

Yes 2600 is total sq footage, but actual living space is more like 2000 . Dont want to buy new Blaze King King, too much $$. We have no problem heating with the 30nc, just the consistency warmth isn't there once house is warmed up.

 

[Ashful]

Does the 2600 include the basement? Sounds like a king is a better fit!

Not saying the King wouldn't work (it can burn mighty slow), but 2600 sq.ft. is well within Princess capacity.

Here's the beauty of a BK. This is my Ashford 30 (just slightly smaller than the Princess) at 24 hours into a burn on a medium (2.0 on old numbers sticker) setting:



I turn up the air to see what's going inside, and instantly get this:



Again, in reference to rdust's comment on BK's burning low... this was on a medium setting (dial goes 1 to 3, I was burning at 2). I've not heard anyone bragging about 40 hour burn times from an IS, with the cat in the active zone the entire time, but I have no trouble hitting 36 hours these little Ashfords. I'd be amazed if I couldn't go 40 hours on a Princess and 50 hours on the King, with oak in the chamber.

 

[Woody Stover]

There's only X BTUs in a given quantity of wood, right? Does the BK just spread the equal amount of BTUs out over a longer time? Is that why the IS is rated at 57000 BTU and the PH at 73000 while the King is at ~40000 and the Princess is at 35000, about equal to my Keystone? The BK 30.1s are 28000, barely nosing out my lowly Dutchwest 2460. What gives? I guess if your house doesn't lose much heat, you go for the lower output over a longer time. Setting the cat temp aside for the time being, what stove top (and stove side) temps do all these stoves carry throughout the burn? I'd like to get to the bottom of all this at some point....guess I just need to dig deeper and think harder. Ahhh, who am I kidding?

 

[rdust]

Again, in reference to rdust's comment on BK's burning low... this was on a medium setting (dial goes 1 to 3, I was burning at 2). I've not heard anyone bragging about 40 hour burn times from an IS, with the cat in the active zone the entire time, but I have no trouble hitting 36 hours these little Ashfords. I'd be amazed if I couldn't go 40 hours on a Princess and 50 hours on the King, with oak in the chamber.

I've burned a Princess for 5 seasons now and I can promise you it will NEVER burn 40 hours with any measurable heat coming off of it no matter the fuel type. I'm heating just shy of 2k in MI and I load twice a day when the real winter is here. The OP is in WI and wants to heat 2600, I stand by saying that's a stretch without supplementing it with another heat source.

The Ashford burns lower than the Princess.

Ashful are those times fans or no fans? Fans on low destroy my burn times.

 

[Woody Stover]

I can promise you it will NEVER burn 40 hours with any measurable heat coming off of it no matter the fuel type. I'm heating just shy of 2k in MI and I load twice a day when the real winter is here. The OP is in WI and wants to heat 2600

my Ashford 30 (just slightly smaller than the Princess) at 24 hours into a burn on a medium (2.0 on old numbers sticker) setting:
View attachment 172027

C'mon man. You got like 10K sq.ft. to heat. Quit pussyfootin' around with the "country gentleman" burning, and trying to get into Beauteeful Homes Magazine with this succession of cutesy stoves. Put some no-nonsense 50000-plus cat flamethrowers in there and move some HOT air, bud! Coupla Buck 91 Bays or Kuma Sequoias. NOW you're talkin'!

 

[kennyp2339]

$1700.00 is a good price for the princess, being that the stove is retailed about $2,600.00 brand new, I would go with the princess and if you don't like it you can sell it for basically what you bought it for, there is a demand for these products. As with any used stove, you really need to check for abuse, look at the gaskets, by-pass plate, broken bricks, blower controls. If the cat is bad you can get a replacement no problem.
The other pro with this stove is ease of use with cleaning, and burning, there is nothing complicated here. I would recommend a oak kit for this.

 

[Woody Stover]

Back to the question at hand, heating from the basement you want a convective stove with a blower (heats air) as opposed to a radiant stove. Factors that will help get heat upstairs include weather the basement walls are insulated and how close the stove is to the staircase. Mixed results have been reported here by those trying to heat from downstairs.

 

[LocustBurner]

If you skip the decorative art, the ash pan, and soapstone firebox you can own an IS for $1925 plus shipping.
Since its going in your basement you wouldn't miss the above.
If you can hold off until spring Woodstock probably will offer their spring pre - order sale.
I got a "loaded" IS shipped for $2,200 and change. Took delivery in July.
So u can save big $$$ if you wait.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Sounds like either would work fine. I assume either stove would fit your hearth? I originally was looking at the BK's but they wouldn't work with my hearth/vent config, I needed the IS for the horizontal venting capability. The IS will burn longer than the stated 14hr burn, but not as long as the BK's I don't think. Not sure if that is important for you or not, I haven't really been able to utilize such a long low burn anyhow. Unless your home all the time I don't know how you really plan a 30+ hour burn. I stick to a 2 load per day schedule, when I get up, and then when I get back home from work. I have long days at work (14hrs door to door with no extra stops) and all the other stoves I had weren't good for much more than 8 hours. So for me going to a stove that I can get 14-16 hrs of usable heat was huge! My house is pretty lossy and hard to move heat around, so really low burns I can't utilize well anyhow. But I am still learning and trying things. I fear even 14-16hrs with the IS in a real cold snap wouldn't be enough heat, but at least the stove won't go out like all my others would have. It did pretty well in the little cold snap we had a few days ago though, so I'm hopeful.

So I'd say it comes down to mostly preference. If you want a stove you can customize with a theme or your own artwork the IS is very unique. If you don't care about that seems like the Princess is probably the better deal.

 

[freeburn]

Thanks for the all the replies so far! This is very helpful regardless if it's opinion or not. To answer a few of your questions....

Basement is fully insulated, but one side is walkout. Convection works surprisingly well from up to down the open stairway and the stove I have now has a blower, but I never use it. Hearth install is not a problem either would work. It's a corner with a 20+ foot exterior triple walled stainless chimney. I am only looking for a stove that will burn a strong 12 hours and not have to use another firestarter after that amt of time. I'm gathering that either one will do it. Asthetics are up in the air as of right now. Just looking at overall realistic burn times with some measurable heat (400+ deg).

One thing that intrigues me is that the Woodstock has the hybrid capability (i.e. secondary air). I don't believe the blaze king has this unless you include the air wash. The auto dampener on the BK is also something that seems to work well too. Decisions!

Couple more questions since I haven't used a cat stove before...

Is a cat sensitive to wet wood, and does it clog up, or work better to clean up smoke if temp is high enough?

What are the avg temps when the cat is activated/glowing? I'm wondering what kind of heat from either stove is radiated off a cat stove. Does it just heat from where the cat is or does it heat up the whole stove eventually?

 

[freeburn]

Sounds like either would work fine. I assume either stove would fit your hearth? I originally was looking at the BK's but they wouldn't work with my hearth/vent config, I needed the IS for the horizontal venting capability. The IS will burn longer than the stated 14hr burn, but not as long as the BK's I don't think. Not sure if that is important for you or not, I haven't really been able to utilize such a long low burn anyhow. Unless your home all the time I don't know how you really plan a 30+ hour burn. I stick to a 2 load per day schedule, when I get up, and then when I get back home from work. I have long days at work (14hrs door to door with no extra stops) and all the other stoves I had weren't good for much more than 8 hours. So for me going to a stove that I can get 14-16 hrs of usable heat was huge! My house is pretty lossy and hard to move heat around, so really low burns I can't utilize well anyhow. But I am still learning and trying things. I fear even 14-16hrs with the IS in a real cold snap wouldn't be enough heat, but at least the stove won't go out like all my others would have. It did pretty well in the little cold snap we had a few days ago though, so I'm hopeful.

So I'd say it comes down to mostly preference. If you want a stove you can customize with a theme or your own artwork the IS is very unique. If you don't care about that seems like the Princess is probably the better deal.

What kind of temps were you seeing out of the IS toward the 14 hr period? what were you burning? What temp did it keep your house at? Where does the heat primarily radiate from on the IS?

 

[mellow]

would also like to heat the whole house with basemen install

Don't get too caught up in the hybrid talk, BK tried it back in the 80's and went back to straight cats. Cats are more sensitive to wet wood more so than a tube stove, you need dry wood to burn them low and slow. If you are burning from the basement I wouldn't be looking to burn low and slow, I would have a Drolet Tundra furnace installed down there piping that hot air up via trunk lines to vents throughout the house.

 

[Ashful]

Ashful are those times fans or no fans? Fans on low destroy my burn times.

I can get 36 hours out of the Ashford 30 with the fans on, at a setting of 1.8 or less. I think the fans really only affect the burn time by causing the thermostat to open a little earlier, but if you're really going for burn time and turning the stove down past where the t-stat is working (eg. 1 on the dial), then would the fans even have any effect? In other words, defeating the thermostat, how would blowing fans on the outside of a box affect the fire within?

I've only run the stove a few times with the fans turned off, and that photo of the cat probe above shows what happens. That was after 24 hours on setting 2.0 with fans off. If the fans had been on, it the needle would still be active, but only sitting around the 9 o'clock position on the dial instead of high noon. Again, setting 2.0 gives the t'stat a chance to work.

C'mon man. You got like 10K sq.ft. to heat. Quit pussyfootin' around with the "country gentleman" burning, and trying to get into Beauteeful Homes Magazine with this succession of cutesy stoves. Put some no-nonsense 50000-plus cat flamethrowers in there and move some HOT air, bud! Coupla Buck 91 Bays or Kuma Sequoias. NOW you're talkin'!

lol... not quite 10k sq.ft., but I get your point! My stove loading schedule has nothing to do with trying to heat this place 100%, and everything to do with what my schedule will allow. I have time to do three loads per day, which means I'm loading the stove in the north wing (1890's & 1990's additions) once per day, and the stove in the main house (1770's construction) twice per day. I have found the t'stat settings that give me corresponding 12 and 24 hour burn times, and just keep 'em rolling like that while the oil-fired boiler picks up the slack. The last person who heated this house 100% with wood had five stoves installed in the 1770's wing alone... they probably didn't get much else done during winter.

 

[LocustBurner]

Freeburn said:
“Couple more questions since I haven't used a cat stove before...
Is a cat sensitive to wet wood, and does it clog up, or work better to clean up smoke if temp is high enough?”

Yes. To activate cat you need dry wood BUT . . . . when the cat is disengaged the damp wood will behave better and you can operate this stove as much as needed w/o cat.
Just damp it down. You will see some secondary burn and lots of heat.

Freeburn:
“What are the avg temps when the cat is activated/glowing? I'm wondering what kind of heat from either stove is radiated off a cat stove. Does it just heat from where the cat is or does it heat up the whole stove eventually?”

We jokingly refer to the Idea Steel as 'the reactor.” The whole unit radiates heat well as the soapstone side panels and soapstone firebox liner I ordered retain heat much longer than traditional firebrick (which we used to stack beside our Lopi). Pain and simple the IS is a real beast when so equipped.

Mellow said:
“Don't get too caught up in the hybrid talk. Cats are more sensitive to wet wood more so than a tube stove, you need dry wood to burn them low and slow.”

ALL stoves like seasoned wood better.
In fact burning damp wood can the potential heat up to 40%.
Developing a three year plan isn't too difficult (or obsessive) to save that kind of $$, IMO.
I have some primo red oak, de-barked and de-pithed that is 4, some locust that is 3, more oak that is 2.
I use some of the red oak on my top down relights after a cleanout.

 

[freeburn]

Does the IS generally give a better light show throughout the burn? That might just be the deciding factor for us.

 

[HarvestMan]

Does the IS generally give a better light show throughout the burn? That might just be the deciding factor for us.

Than a BK?

 

[freeburn]

If you skip the decorative art, the ash pan, and soapstone firebox you can own an IS for $1925 plus shipping.
Since its going in your basement you wouldn't miss the above.
If you can hold off until spring Woodstock probably will offer their spring pre - order sale.
I got a "loaded" IS shipped for $2,200 and change. Took delivery in July.
So u can save big $$$ if you wait.

I missed that sale...bummer.

 

[freeburn]

Than a BK?

Yup! Than a BK.

 

[HarvestMan]

Yup! Than a BK.

OK, at the danger of being burned at the stake by the BK owners, I will add my take. I don't own a BK and have never seen one burn in person. But, from reading all these threads, it would appear any light show in a BK is limited to brief periods of time within the burn. Almost every BK owner here has posted something about the BK being the most boring stove in the world. One great appeal of the tube and hybrid stoves appears to be their light shows; have not owned either of these either.

OK, BK owners flame (err, smolder) away!

 

[mellow]

If you want a light show (in your basement?) then I would stick with the Englander 30NC.

 

[freeburn]

If you want a light show ( in your basement?) then I would stick with the Englander 30NC.

I just might, in the end it might just be easier! I may just wait until Spring and see what comes down the road. Thanks mellow.