consequences of setting up wood stoves/ chimneys incorrectly/ differently....

[rumme]

I thought it may be a good idea to start a thread that allows posters to post any experiences they may have had, with installing their woodstove systems differently or incorrectly and problems asssociated with it. Perhaps this could be considered a " pitfall " thread .


I can start by saying :

My chimney section is single wall uninsulated steel and the condensation that builds up when its below freezing and the stove is being used is quite amazing. Fortunately I have a spring fastened cleanout on the bottom of my chimney that allows me to let the condensation escape, but if its a really cold night, that condensation will freeze at the very bottom of the chimney, and then I have to use a hammer and chisel and chip it away. Im sure this condensation process also greatly reduces the lifespan of my steel chimney thru accelerated rusting. I do notice one possible positive, unexpected result of this condensation . It seems that any significant creosote is weighted down by the condensation on the side walls of the chimney, and falls to the bottom of the chimney where my cleanout is.


Im hoping if we can share experiences like this, it will help others make wiser decisions when it comes to them installing their own woodstove systems. In the near future, I do plan to brick around my steel chimney, but im not sure if that will alleviate the condensaton problems.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Sometimes threads like this can backfire and encourage people to try different things. Better to stay with proven correct ways of installing. Don't ever forget that you are playing with fire!!

 

[rumme]

Sometimes threads like this can backfire and encourage people to try different things. Better to stay with proven correct ways of installing. Don't ever forget that you are playing with fire!!

I am of the mindset, that people should take responsibility for their own actions ...at least thats how I think mature adults should act.

furthermore, trying different things doesnt always need to be though of as bad.

we have a perfect example on this forum...as there was a recent thread of how someone did not want to spend alot of money on new ceramic baffles for their woodstove..and decided to try Durolock / cement board as a replacement...so far, that poster has reported great results at a cost of only a few dollars...compared to purchasing four ceramic baffles that would have cost hundreds of dollars...


maybe when society starts taking accountability for thier own actions/ decisions, we may expect our government to follow ?

 

[rumme]

Sometimes threads like this can backfire and encourage people to try different things. Better to stay with proven correct ways of installing. Don't ever forget that you are playing with fire!!

on another note, just imagine if everyone who had a woodstove in the 1800s , had the same mindset as above...back then, they though they had proven systems that worked the best.....good thing they were open to new idea/ opinions...correct ?


sometimes sharing experiences of different ideas/ setups can have great results.

 

[polaris]

Sometimes threads like this can backfire and encourage people to try different things. Better to stay with proven correct ways of installing. Don't ever forget that you are playing with fire!!

I am of the mindset, that people should take responsibility for their own actions ...at least thats how I think mature adults should act.

furthermore, trying different things doesnt always need to be though of as bad.

we have a perfect example on this forum...as there was a recent thread of how someone did not want to spend alot of money on new ceramic baffles for their woodstove..and decided to try Durolock / cement board as a replacement...so far, that poster has reported great results at a cost of only a few dollars...compared to purchasing four ceramic baffles that would have cost hundreds of dollars...


maybe when society starts taking accountability for thier own actions/ decisions, we may expect our government to follow ?

Personal/governmental responsibility. What a novel idea.
Amen brother, amen.
Joe

 

[snowtime]

I do not see the current 'Best Practices' as a object to circumvent. If one wants to go cheap and take a chance with their home thats their business. UNLESS ANYONE ELSE LIVES THERE! I have changed my systems a lot in the last 40 years. When ever I learn of a method to make things safer I do it. Others will want to do whats cheapest and telling them that they could probably violate the intent of modern safety standards and survive is not doing them a service.

As we are snowed in each year I have become quite good at fixing things. Sometimes not according to normal procedures. The exception is when it comes to safety. It has taken a lot of years and trials for the industry to determine whats safe. I do not think we should encourage going back to old or undocumented trials.

 

[John_M]

Just a thought or two: 1) If one does not follow the manufacturers' instructions when installing a woodstove, stove pipe or chimney and a house fire occurs and the cause can be attributed to not following the manufacturers' instructions, will your insurance company cover the damages?; 2) Again, failing to follow the manufacturers' instructions, will a codes enforcement officer issue a "Certificate of Compliance" for the installation?

I do know that if a heavy wind blows shingles off my roof or siding off my house and the roofing or siding was not installed according to the manufacturers' instructions, the manufacturers will not honor any claim for damages.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Sometimes threads like this can backfire and encourage people to try different things. Better to stay with proven correct ways of installing. Don't ever forget that you are playing with fire!!

I am of the mindset, that people should take responsibility for their own actions ...at least thats how I think mature adults should act.

furthermore, trying different things doesnt always need to be though of as bad.

we have a perfect example on this forum...as there was a recent thread of how someone did not want to spend alot of money on new ceramic baffles for their woodstove..and decided to try Durolock / cement board as a replacement...so far, that poster has reported great results at a cost of only a few dollars...compared to purchasing four ceramic baffles that would have cost hundreds of dollars...


maybe when society starts taking accountability for thier own actions/ decisions, we may expect our government to follow ?

rumme, perhaps I've worded wrongly or you misunderstand me. For sure I am always open to trying new things and making things better. However, I am not for most folks trying to change things on installations. Just read the various posts on here. Most people just don't have the knowledge to go changing things and are asking for big problems if they do.

There is a time and place for experimentation and that is not in a heating unit of a home. Go ahead and try things out in your shop. That is where it should be done. Prove things before putting them into practical use.

Accountability? Sadly, that seems to have gone out with the garbage. Most just do not want it any more and that is one of the big downfalls in our country.

Now, go ahead and improve. Carry on! I will too.

 

[webbie]

As we used to tell our customers all the time when they wanted to experiment.....

they would give us that line about the old days...we'd say "back then, when a house burned down on the other side of the mountain, you didn't hear about it....so those unsafe practices were not always known about"......

These days we have mortgages, insurance and 300 million people. Personal responsibility is mostly making sure you do things which takes other (including insurance companies, mortgage companies, your family, your neighbors, the local fire dept, etc.) into account.

 

[fossil]

I'm not gonna lie to anybody and say I always pull a permit and get an inspection when I know it's required...sometimes I don't. But I'm telling the truth when I say I always do my homework and I understand what I'm getting into before I set out to do it. This includes a lot of reading, including the building & electrical codes. I see these codes as a compilation of lessons learned by generations who've gone before us. I pay attention to code requirements and to manufacturer's requirements. Rick

 

[begreen]

As we used to tell our customers all the time when they wanted to experiment.....

they would give us that line about the old days...we'd say "back then, when a house burned down on the other side of the mountain, you didn't hear about it....so those unsafe practices were not always known about"......

These days we have mortgages, insurance and 300 million people. Personal responsibility is mostly making sure you do things which takes other (including insurance companies, mortgage companies, your family, your neighbors, the local fire dept, etc.) into account.

Well said. This is a public forum in which a lot of newcomers log in for direction and advice. If they see a group of people violating a manufacturer's tested rule or a code reg, then they may figure, what the heck I might as well try it too. Bad idea if that violation involves clearances to combustibles or other basic safety concerns. Before you change mfg. specs, be sure you understand the implications and downstream possibilities of these changes.

 

[rumme]

If you go back and read my post, you can clearly see where I stated that this thread could be used as a " pitfalls " thread, to wanr others of the consequences of alternative ideas/ installs..

geesh...I thought I made that very clear in my post. In other words, it could be a thread where others are given warnings of the downfalls of doing things differently....just like I did with my first example.

Sometimes I think im on another planet then other people :{

 

[wendell]

Maybe i misunderstood the intention to this thread but what i thought the topic was meant to be was "I thought I did this right but now see i was wrong" as a warning to those who follow, not "look what I"m trying to get away with".

If it is the former, it seems like a great idea for you all to share your wisdom.

 

[wendell]

Glad to see I didn't misunderstand.

 

[rumme]

Maybe i misunderstood the intention to this thread but what i thought the topic was meant to be was "I thought I did this right but now see i was wrong" as a warning to those who follow, not "look what I"m trying to get away with".

If it is the former, it seems like a great idea for you all to share your wisdom.

thank you...like I said..sometimes I dont even feel like im part of this world...glad you understood my objectives..TY.

 

[rumme]

Glad to see I didn't misunderstand.

and im glad to see a few people understood :}

 

[begreen]

Yeah, it did take a bit of a sidetrack. Thanks for the redirect back to the subject.

I have generally tried to stay within the stove mfg. specs + a little extra to avoid issues. But I can remember trying to jump start a fire in the Jotul F400 by opening the ash pan door (manual aptly warns against this), then closing it when I thought the fire had started. Big mistake. A few seconds later it was smoldering. A minute later the smoke ignited. Kawhoomph Fortunately I had not violated the directive to have 3 screws per pipe section. Otherwise I might have been dealing with a mess of pipe falling down and smoke filling the house.

 

[rumme]

for my install...it seems the two things that I did not do to code are :

using a single wall steel uninsulated chimney

and

not following the 2 - 10 rule....

both of which have had noticeable negative consequences...

 

[rumme]

the amount of condensation that builds up is remarkable when the chimney is not properly insulated.

 

[wendell]

I had that happen once but not that way. I had shut the air supply down too quickly and the fire was going out so i opened it back up wide open. About 15 seconds later the smoke exploded with an unbelievable THWUMP and blew ash out all around the door seal. Definitely got my heart going!

 

[rumme]

if I brick around my steel chimney, will that be adequate insulator from the cold ?

 

[North of 60]

OK Rumme Iam trying to help. Downsizing your flue to the correct specified cross sectional area will also help as it will increase your draft and give it less time to condense. I think an insulated correctly sized liner will take care of alot of your issues. Code aside :down: Brick it later for looks after your happy with your results.
Peace :coolsmile: N of 60

 

[Dustin]

I didn't know about this site, or anything about building codes..here's where I went wrong....

I had a fireplace downstairs, with no stove in it. It was becoming winter and my furnace sucked. So I picked up a 100 dollar old wood stove insert. I took the advice of some 'old timers'


They told me that all you have to do is slide the stove in past the smoke shelf, put the metal surround on, and your good to go.


I burned like that ALL WINTER. I could never get it warm in the house, no matter how hot the fire. During the summer, the house smelled some bad of creasote it would almost run us out.


I learned, that I was sending all my heat right up the chimney, and putting myself at serious danger burning the stove this way. I also learned the during the summer I had a down draft coming in the house, filling the house up from that nasty smell.


Never, ever will I make that mistake again. Thank god i didn't burn the house down

 

[rumme]

OK Rumme Iam trying to help. Downsizing your flue to the correct specified cross sectional area will also help as it will increase your draft and give it less time to condense. I think an insulated correctly sized liner will take care of alot of your issues. Code aside :down: Brick it later for looks after your happy with your results.
Peace :coolsmile: N of 60

appreciate the tips....


for now im gonna stay with the 8x8 chimney. I currently dont have a problem with draft, it seems . I can get a fire going and keep it going for days with no problems.

the condensation problems I can deal with , at least for the current time. The smoke problems entering my home during windy days I cannot. I am putting on a vaccu stack wind blocker chimney cap. Supposedly these alleviate most wind problems asscoaited with chimneys/ downdrafts . They are reported to actually increase updraft on windy days by not allowing the wind to go down the chimney, but past the chimney top, creating a suction effect.

 

[rumme]

I would like to make a comment about the people who have expressed concerns about this subject having negative implications on others. I fully understand what you are saying, but I thought I made it clear in my initial post that this thread would moreso comment on the negatives of doing things differently. If anything, I would think this should have a positive effect .


You must also forgive my thought process on such subjects, because out here in the boon docks of Arkansas, we do things differently then many other places , where government interventions, codes, etc have become so prevalent.

for example :

every place I knew about, here in the U.S, had laws in effect that made it mandatory for people who purchase a vehicle for transportation, to have it inspected . But where I live, this law does not exist...just like we dont have to do any types of emmission testing on our vehicles once they are titled and on the road. We dont even have local government run trash pickup out here.


So I think its important to keep in mind , that what may seem radical and unusual for some people, may not be so for others, ecspecially when based on the parts of the world they live in and lack of certain codes/ government regulations, etc...