2022/23 VC Owner thread

[JohnDaileyNH]

After a few weeks I have adopted a similar method. Stuff it full on hot coals, wait until cat hits 1000, close air all the way down, repeat in 6-8 hours (or randomly add some misshapen pieces along the way to use them up if I am sitting around).

My only problem is that the stove runs great, and hot, with air closed all the way down. It feels like I should be able to turn things down further. STT will hit 650 on a full load every time. If I could dial things back enough to get a full 8-9 hours on every burn I would be thrilled, what a bummer in the morning to come down to a warm stove with no coals.

My cat temps very rarely exceed 1400, my record is 1530 for a few minutes. I've only seen 1500+ with maple and ash, never with oak for some reason.

My wood ranges from 18-22% moisture.

650 seems high for the air down in my opinion as well. I find my stove sits between 350-450 when I have it loaded and the air turned down overnight.

If I'm home and it's cold I'll run it half way open or more and get up to 650. When I had no power for 3 days for Christmas I was running it at 650-700 to keep up without the blower

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Encore 2040 Cat-C. First season with it and just burning wood in general. You've been very helpful so thank you.

Went from a tank of oil every 5 weeks to .5 tank the entire winter so I'd say so far success. Knock on wood

sounds like quite the savings.. I enjoy posts like this.. I went from .. Well I think 3/4 tanks per year to nothing.. 2 years ago.. I spent 75 bucks on oil.. sounds like your in the right direction

 

[Woodsplitter67]

650 seems high for the air down in my opinion as well. I find my stove sits between 350-450 when I have it loaded and the air turned down overnight.

If I'm home and it's cold I'll run it half way open or more and get up to 650. When I had no power for 3 days for Christmas I was running it at 650-700 to keep up without the blower

thanks for postung this and confirming..

 

[U235]

650 seems high for the air down in my opinion as well. I find my stove sits between 350-450 when I have it loaded and the air turned down overnight.

If I'm home and it's cold I'll run it half way open or more and get up to 650. When I had no power for 3 days for Christmas I was running it at 650-700 to keep up without the blower

I think the install is a key distinction. These guys running 450 STTs all have unimpeded air flow all around their stoves. By my count, @Lorde, @U235, and @JohnDaileyNH are the only ones that have mentioned running a stove tucked in and John runs his with blower on high (usually).

I’ve found success using an inspection mirror and a flashlight give access to the flap.

 

[arnermd]

The EPA holes are for your secondary burn and have nothing to do with the primary air control..

I was surprised to read this and I think it is worth exploring to clarify. On my stove there is a hole (I call it the EPA hole, maybe that is the wrong term?) that bypass the flapper. It is a ~3/8" dia hole that allows air to flow into the primary air manifold even when the flapper is fully closed.

It feeds the primary air just the same as air that comes through the flapper, up through the manifolds and down the airwash. I have included these in the schematic I posted a while back.

Schematic

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

I think the install is a key distinction. These guys running 450 STTs all have unimpeded air flow all around their stoves. By my count, @Lorde, @U235, and @JohnDaileyNH are the only ones that have mentioned running a stove tucked in and John runs his with blower on high (usually).

I’ve found success using an inspection mirror and a flashlight give access to the flap.

Thinking heat is getting trapped in the fireplace and keeping the stove hotter?

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

sounds like quite the savings.. I enjoy posts like this.. I went from .. Well I think 3/4 tanks per year to nothing.. 2 years ago.. I spent 75 bucks on oil.. sounds like your in the right direction

Getting there. Wood management the next improvement. Moved wood too many times this year cause it wasn't set up right. What I thought would be efficient wasn't once I started going. So took notes and do it a little different next year

 

[U235]

Thinking heat is getting trapped in the fireplace and keeping the stove hotter?

yeah - I think this could be a significant contributing factor. If the air (especially above the stove) isn’t freely moving around, I would imagine it reduces the heat convected off the stove body. Less heat out leads to higher stove temps.

I’m planning to run a blower next season with my install, hoping to get a little lower flue temps/less draft/longer burn times. Probably also lower griddle temps.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

yeah - I think this could be a significant contributing factor. If the air (especially above the stove) isn’t freely moving around, I would imagine it reduces the heat convected off the stove body. Less heat out leads to higher stove temps.

I’m planning to run a blower next season with my install, hoping to get a little lower flue temps/less draft/longer burn times. Probably also lower griddle temps.

Could be possible. But wouldn't the bricks of the hearth absorb most of this heat? Versus radiating it in to the room? I also have a piece of sheet metal that I have above my stove using a few magnets that block off the heat from going up

My fireplace is massive so there is a lot of space around my Encore. But where's located without the blower it just doesn't move the heat that well to the other side of my house. It's on an exterior wall on the far side and the stairs separate the kitchen from the living room. Really noticed the effects of the blower when I had no power a few times this winter

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

@arnermd I think you are the person who can help me with this. I'm trying to understand how air flows in to the firebox. I know it enters in the back, but then how and where does it come in to the box?

 

[U235]

@arnermd I think you are the person who can help me with this. I'm trying to understand how air flows in to the firebox. I know it enters in the back, but then how and where does it come in to the box?

For flow visualization, if you have wall surfaces close enough, you can shine a very bright flashlight across the top of the stove and see the light being distorted on the wall behind it. I wish I could capture it with my phone. Pretty cool to see the flow whipping up from around the heat shield.

Edit: you were asking about combustion air. I answered about natural convection air outside the stove. It is still cool though.

 

[Eman85]

Little experiment yesterday:

• Had a smaller bed of coals that I raked to the back
• Full load, smaller splits on the bottom to get things back up to temp
• Key damper full open for entire run
• Cat light off like a rocket, this was a very aggressive load. Guessing due to smaller splits and very little primary burn. I think it was all burning on the coals right at the secondary smoke inlet. Notice the griddle temps are pretty cold for a while.....
• I installed a rubber band on the flapper cable and set it pretty tight to seat the flapper closed. Temps came down hard
• Opened up the air just a little, temps came back up
• Closed again and temps came back down, hmmm.... seems to be working, that flapper must be leaking.
• Repeated the cycle again.... confirmed.
• Then I set air full closed, temps came down and then went back up again with no adjustments.... wtf? Demons are back.
• Temps crashed so I opened air up to 50%, took off like a rocket..... so dialed air down a bit.
• Gave me one last peak at the end (the typical FU) and then died out.....

So did the experiment work?

• Seems clear the flapper is leaking air at full closed without the rubber band assist
• Is that the real problem? I am not so sure.....
• May try removing the flapper during next warm spell to inspect, not sure I can remove it completely without a total teardown..... Maybe.
  • Anybody ever remove a flapper from outside the stove? Does the hinge lever come out with it?

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Notice your flue temps are higher than STT in other graphs it's been lower. Is this a difference with steel cat?
I'm going to need to relearn how to run my stove, haven't had a fire in quite some time as it's gotten unseasonably warm, highs near 80 lows in the high 50's.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

started haulling out the wood yesterday

 

[U235]

started haulling out the wood yesterday

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@Woodsplitter67 - do you sell firewood on the side or is all this gear just to keep your 2040 fed ?
I’ll have to admit, it’s encouraging to see someone invest so much in keeping their VC product happy.

 

[arnermd]

@arnermd I think you are the person who can help me with this. I'm trying to understand how air flows in to the firebox. I know it enters in the back, but then how and where does it come in to the box?

I understand it for my stove, I think yours is the same, but I do not know for certain.

See previous posts with pics here:
Schematic
Defiant Air Flow Paths

Primary air comes in through the flapper (and what I call the EPA hole) then it flows through a manifold in the stove base (behind the ashpan) to the front corners.
There are bolt on manifolds in each front corner, the air flows up those vertically.
Then it travels into the air wash manifold horizontally, located above your glass doors.
Then down into the firebox.

 

[arnermd]

Notice your flue temps are higher than STT in other graphs it's been lower. Is this a difference with steel cat?
I'm going to need to relearn how to run my stove, haven't had a fire in quite some time as it's gotten unseasonably warm, highs near 80 lows in the high 50's.

I suspect the difference you are observing is when I moved the temp probe. I ran it ~48" above the stove top for a while, to understand my stack temps better. With it up that high the gas losses a lot of temp through the single wall stove pipe.

Lately I have been running with the flue temp located ~12" above the stove top. Quite a bit hotter there.

I have not seen any significant difference in the metal cat temps, about the same temps everywhere.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

@Woodsplitter67 - do you sell firewood on the side or is all this gear just to keep your 2040 fed ?
I’ll have to admit, it’s encouraging to see someone invest so much in keeping their VC product happy.

So I started selling fire wood in the fall of 2020 to people I know. It was mostly out of my stash. I didn't like doing that. This past fall 2022 I started selling Kiln dried wood to the people that were purchasing from me It was 500 dollars per cord delivered. The farthest drive is 10 minutes and the closest is is like 800 ft. and I just drive it down the road with the skidsteer.

I own a business and I have alot of equipment, I had this equipment well before I started processing wood for myself. Once I started processing and realized that I wanted to switch to wood heat, I went and purchased things to make it easier. I keep a skidsteer at my house, you've seen the pictures.. its from 1999 not worth selling, runs great and still looks good. Its older and outdated the men dont use it. I have 7 machines total. I like stuff whice is kind of a problem... Im all over south jersey.. the machines are rarely all at the shop so its easy to stop at a job on the way home pick something up and drop it off to where the wood it. Most locations are 15 to 20 minutes from my home.

I have a huge advantage over most, in that if I wasn't selling wood Id still have all of this. I purchased the grapple bucket a number of years back to make moving log length easier to use and purchased the dump trailer because I got tire of driving to the shop and getting dumptrucks to haul the wood, it was just inconvenient..

I truly believe that when things become difficult were less likely to do it, its not fun.. With all the gear I have... it is fun, and pretty easy and best of all not time consuming. My son and I worked 4 half days.. starting at 7am and done at 12pm.. we scored at least 6 cords of wood.

The time spent in the woods cutting, or at home processing becomes more quality time then work. My son and I enjoy this.. we laugh, enjoy hot coco in the woods, we will walk back to the truck and take a small break and snack on a meat and cheese platter with Ritz crackers. When we get a little tired.. thats it, were done

It didnt start this way. I thought that I was going to be just a weekend burner, or a fire here and there during the week. It quickly grew to primary heat. Some of the was due to the savings in oil, but mostly because the quality of heat is so much better, its completely relaxing sitting here by the stove while I type this. I enjoy my stove because, Im not a slave to it, my wood is super dry and my burns are long. Dial the air back and do hot reloads every so often. I leave for work at 6.15 am.. the stove is loaded again from the overnight burn, I dial the air back, at 8am when the wife leaves for work she turns the air all the way back, when I get home at 4/5pm... stoves still going with coals.. just add wood turn the air back up get to temperature, turn the air back.. get ready for bed.. turn air up, fully load the stove.. turn air all the way back... wake up.. repeat process.

Heres a couple pictures from yesterday's haul.. that trailer was maxed out..

 

[arnermd]

So I started selling fire wood in the fall of 2020 to people I know. It was mostly out of my stash. I didn't like doing that. This past fall 2022 I started selling Kiln dried wood to the people that were purchasing from me It was 500 dollars per cord delivered. The farthest drive is 10 minutes and the closest is is like 800 ft. and I just drive it down the road with the skidsteer.

I own a business and I have alot of equipment, I had this equipment well before I started processing wood for myself. Once I started processing and realized that I wanted to switch to wood heat, I went and purchased things to make it easier. I keep a skidsteer at my house, you've seen the pictures.. its from 1999 not worth selling, runs great and still looks good. Its older and outdated the men dont use it. I have 7 machines total. I like stuff whice is kind of a problem... Im all over south jersey.. the machines are rarely all at the shop so its easy to stop at a job on the way home pick something up and drop it off to where the wood it. Most locations are 15 to 20 minutes from my home.

I have a huge advantage over most, in that if I wasn't selling wood Id still have all of this. I purchased the grapple bucket a number of years back to make moving log length easier to use and purchased the dump trailer because I got tire of driving to the shop and getting dumptrucks to haul the wood, it was just inconvenient..

Wow $500 a cord! Is that the going rate in Jersey? I understand it is kiln dried and delivered, that's worth a premium. Last I knew wood was $200 a cord in CT, but that was a few years back....

Spending quality time doing something productive with children in the great outdoors is worth a lot. There is a pretty short window of time where kids are actually helpful (or at least not a drag) and willing to work..... enjoy it. I can tell you recognize the opportunity.

Oh, and.... I agree with you there is nothing like a constant source of heat in the house. Even if the edges of the house are cooler it is really nice to have a warm spot you can go to. I love having a central heat source that I can fuel myself at minimal cost plus my own labor. I have been burning full time for 10+ years now and I really appreciate and enjoy it. This past fall it occurred to me I had not run my hot water baseboard circ pump in ~5 years..... Figured I better turn the thermostats on to make sure the system still runs.... it was fine.

Now if I could just get this stove to run right......

 

[bert670]

During a recent cold spell I dipped into a 3-4 year aged oak pile I had for my fire pit. It was mostly larger pieces, but there were enough smaller splits that were donated to my Dauntless. I must say, using that wood was the easiest fires I’ve ran in the Dauntless. I maybe adjusted the secondary air 3-4 times over the course of a 8 hour period. I didn’t measure the moisture of the wood, didn’t even cross my mind. Goes to show, quality wood makes life easier. My main wood supply was mostly a mix of year dried wood, unknown species. Fires burned well, but had to do more adjustments to get the desired results.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Wow $500 a cord! Is that the going rate in Jersey? I understand it is kiln dried and delivered, that's worth a premium. Last I knew wood was $200 a cord in CT, but that was a few years back....

Spending quality time doing something productive with children in the great outdoors is worth a lot. There is a pretty short window of time where kids are actually helpful (or at least not a drag) and willing to work..... enjoy it. I can tell you recognize the opportunity.

Oh, and.... I agree with you there is nothing like a constant source of heat in the house. Even if the edges of the house are cooler it is really nice to have a warm spot you can go to. I love having a central heat source that I can fuel myself at minimal cost plus my own labor. I have been burning full time for 10+ years now and I really appreciate and enjoy it. This past fall it occurred to me I had not run my hot water baseboard circ pump in ~5 years..... Figured I better turn the thermostats on to make sure the system still runs.... it was fine.

Now if I could just get this stove to run right......

Kiln dried in NH is like 450 a cord so 500 in NJ wouldn't surprise me

 

[arnermd]

Happy Monday all....

Seeing some very odd stove behavior the last 2 burns. Seems to be taking much longer to get my cat up to temp and then once it does light off when I close down the air it crashes the cat. Very strange.....

Sunday morning I woke to find the stove pretty cold and a lot of unburned coals, I opened the air up at 4:30 and the cat went to 1000. The overnight air setting was ~40% so it was not like I had it choked down.

On the next load at 9:20 cat temps went up as normal and then crashed, I actually plugged the secondary inlet around 9:50 to get the cat to light off. Once it did it seemed fine for a few hours.

I opened up the refractory last night and inspected.... all seemed normal. Pics of the metal cat are below, it looks to be in pretty good shape. The frame is still relatively square and straight. The mesh is clearly more distorted than it was but is still structurally sound.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Kiln dried in NH is like 450 a cord so 500 in NJ wouldn't surprise me

Hears the thing.. most sell kiln dried and its not actually dried. Its heated for a little bit to kill the bugs on the outside. Some have posted of purchasing kiln-dried wood and its still wet in the center of the split. The people that are purchasing from me are getting truly kiln-dried wood. The people that purchased received wood that was anywhere from 9 to 14% MC depending on where the wood was in the kiln and the size and species of wood. Believe it or not 500 dollars is a bargain compared to some.. I posted in a thread a while back on another forum someone was asking for 700 per cord for pretty much the same thing Im selling.. and not delivered I believe this was in Massachusetts.. or CT.. there are people here asking for 400 to 500 a cord for so-called smoking wood sitting outside most likely at 30%... I dont advertise and I do it more for fun.. my son does it for the money.. Is a source of income for him while he's in high-school..

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Happy Monday all....

Seeing some very odd stove behavior the last 2 burns. Seems to be taking much longer to get my cat up to temp and then once it does light off when I close down the air it crashes the cat. Very strange.....

Sunday morning I woke to find the stove pretty cold and a lot of unburned coals, I opened the air up at 4:30 and the cat went to 1000. The overnight air setting was ~40% so it was not like I had it choked down.

On the next load at 9:20 cat temps went up as normal and then crashed, I actually plugged the secondary inlet around 9:50 to get the cat to light off. Once it did it seemed fine for a few hours.

I opened up the refractory last night and inspected.... all seemed normal. Pics of the metal cat are below, it looks to be in pretty good shape. The frame is still relatively square and straight. The mesh is clearly more distorted than it was but is still structurally sound.

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this was something that was happening to me a number of weeks ago.. did the shutter adjustment and vacuumed ot the inside of the stove...

 

[arnermd]

this was something that was happening to me a number of weeks ago.. did the shutter adjustment and vacuumed ot the inside of the stove...

I thought of you when it happened.....

Last nights burn was more "normal" but it still went to 1400 pretty quick, then slowly crashed to 800 and then ramped back to 1400 over the course of 3 hours....
This morning had a lot of unburned wood still in there, opened the air up and cat went from 400 to 900 before dying off.

Stove is cooling today so might have another peek tonight.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I thought of you when it happened.....

Last nights burn was more "normal" but it still went to 1400 pretty quick, then slowly crashed to 800 and then ramped back to 1400 over the course of 3 hours....
This morning had a lot of unburned wood still in there, opened the air up and cat went from 400 to 900 before dying off.

Stove is cooling today so might have another peek tonight.

The unburnt wood is saying.. yo.. im stalling.. WTF when I was waking up at 5am is what i said back