2022/23 VC Owner thread

[Woodsplitter67]

Catalytic Combustor Vermont Castings Defiant Encore Flexburn (2.5

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midwesthearth.com

you used to be able to get them directly from the manufacturer.. ceramitec I believe.. you can call them.. I provided the information a couple times in this thread back in October I believe.. Im not sure exactly what cats in that stove.. the one in the picture is for my stove and thats not the steel cat

You can get them on Amazon through midway..

 

[arnermd]

you used to be able to get them directly from the manufacturer.. ceramitec I believe.. you can call them.. I provided the information a couple times in this thread back in October I believe.. Im not sure exactly what cats in that stove.. the one in the picture is for my stove and thats not the steel cat

You can get them on Amazon through midway..

Yep found it on amazon. Might be my next cat purchase.....
You happy with it? How many cord have you put through it so far? Holding up ok?

Had cat temps launch up at 1600 last night again after a hot reload, air full closed, 1/2 load of big splits. Stove top was on the lower side again ~300
- Concluding that my door alignment was not the cause of the issue, as I expected.
- Last night was cooler than the past few days, draft was measuring .12 iwc. Last few days draft was running 0.1 with warmer weather and the stove ran great.

I need to figure out how to reduce the draft, key damper did not change it much so I need to improve the sealing. Maybe add another key damper. One didn't work, maybe two will....

A barometric damper would control draft levels very well but I do not like cooling the exhaust gasses in the stack. My last resort I think.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Yep found it on amazon. Might be my next cat purchase.....
You happy with it? How many cord have you put through it so far? Holding up ok?

Had cat temps launch up at 1600 last night again after a hot reload, air full closed, 1/2 load of big splits. Stove top was on the lower side again ~300
- Concluding that my door alignment was not the cause of the issue, as I expected.
- Last night was cooler than the past few days, draft was measuring .12 iwc. Last few days draft was running 0.1 with warmer weather and the stove ran great.

I need to figure out how to reduce the draft, key damper did not change it much so I need to improve the sealing. Maybe add another key damper. One didn't work, maybe two will....

A barometric damper would control draft levels very well but I do not like cooling the exhaust gasses in the stack. My last resort I think.

I have 6 cords or so on this cat.. I will run differently.. the cat doesn't get as hot as the ceramic, lights off quicker, stops burning a little sooner, and most important doesn't get brittle.

I Normally clean my stove monthly if not every 3 weeks.. I broke 2 of my ceramic cats this way

Right now I running without the cat in.. I did a full clean out the other day.

 

[arnermd]

I have 6 cords or so on this cat.. I will run differently.. the cat doesn't get as hot as the ceramic, lights off quicker, stops burning a little sooner, and most important doesn't get brittle.

I Normally clean my stove monthly if not every 3 weeks.. I broke 2 of my ceramic cats this way

Right now I running without the cat in.. I did a full clean out the other day.

How long would the ceramics last for you? Assuming you did not break them.... hahaha

I am getting 1.5 - 2 seasons at best out of mine. Failure mode is they just crumble and fall out of the frame, Last year I actually took pieces from one that crumbled and stacked the pieces on top of holes in a newer one. Not ideal but it worked just fine and got me another 1/2 season till I bought a new one for this year which is already showing signs of cracks and stress.....

 

[U235]

@arnermd Are you measuring draft at the same location as your flu temp TC or at your griddle?
I am thinking more and more your flu temp is diluted with room air, (like a barometric damper would do) I cannot explain how you can maintain 400 degree flu temps as catalyst temperature swings from 600 to 1400+. Does this make sense to others with SW or even DW flu magnetic temps? Completely unresponsive to runaway catalyst?
If it is chimney leakage/dilution it would also explain why the key damper had no effect. Not sure where it would leave you on go-forward options.

 

[Eman85]

@arnermd Are you measuring draft at the same location as your flu temp TC or at your griddle?
I am thinking more and more your flu temp is diluted with room air, (like a barometric damper would do) I cannot explain how you can maintain 400 degree flu temps as catalyst temperature swings from 600 to 1400+. Does this make sense to others with SW or even DW flu magnetic temps? Completely unresponsive to runaway catalyst?
If it is chimney leakage/dilution it would also explain why the key damper had no effect. Not sure where it would leave you on go-forward options.

I have a magnetic flue temp gauge stuck on the flue adapter since I changed to DW pipe. My cat can go to 1600 and flue temps don't change much, the only place I see an increase is the rear and sides of the stove.

 

[Eman85]

you used to be able to get them directly from the manufacturer.. ceramitec I believe.. you can call them.. I provided the information a couple times in this thread back in October I believe.. Im not sure exactly what cats in that stove.. the one in the picture is for my stove and thats not the steel cat

You can get them on Amazon through midway..

I'm the one that tried to order direct and they told me MW Hearth is where I should go as they didn't sell direct. I ordered directly from MW Hearth and no Amazon since I called them and they gave excellent service. The link I gave shows the C as the ceramic and the M as the metal versions.

 

[arnermd]

@arnermd Are you measuring draft at the same location as your flu temp TC or at your griddle?
I am thinking more and more your flu temp is diluted with room air, (like a barometric damper would do) I cannot explain how you can maintain 400 degree flu temps as catalyst temperature swings from 600 to 1400+. Does this make sense to others with SW or even DW flu magnetic temps? Completely unresponsive to runaway catalyst?
If it is chimney leakage/dilution it would also explain why the key damper had no effect. Not sure where it would leave you on go-forward options.

Draft is measured 12" above the stove top, where the oval to round adapter mates to the stovepipe.
I moved my flue temp a couple weeks ago. It is now after the first 90 as it enters my vertical liner. About 4' above the stove top.
- Some temp is certainly lost through the single wall stove pipe.
- The probe is in the center of the pipe right after 90, so it is possible the flow is stratified there. It may be the hot stuff is at the top of the pipe. I can check next time I fire up.

Your question is a good one and I do not have a definitive explanation. Gas temps that go from 1600 to 500 in 4-5ft seems pretty amazing. I do some movement on the flue gas when the cat runs off... but it is relatively small.
- I can only conclude the flow rate is very low and the stove / pipe is able to dump all the btu's to the room.
Again Heat (BTU's) = mass flow * Cp * dT. So even though the dT is really big if mass flow is low there is not a lot of energy there.
- When I bypass the cat with it at 1600 the flue gas temps skyrocket very quickly. I will hit 1000 or even 1200 in a few minutes. I can see flame ripping through the stovepipe 2-3 feet above the stovetop through some screw holes I left open..... gets your attention.

Got a new damper today one without the holes in the plate. Gonna see if I can fit that up to get a decent seal to the pipe wall and maybe cut down on the draft.....

 

[Woodsplitter67]

How long would the ceramics last for you? Assuming you did not break them.... hahaha

I am getting 1.5 - 2 seasons at best out of mine. Failure mode is they just crumble and fall out of the frame, Last year I actually took pieces from one that crumbled and stacked the pieces on top of holes in a newer one. Not ideal but it worked just fine and got me another 1/2 season till I bought a new one for this year which is already showing signs of cracks and stress.....

Im not exactly sure.. I broke my first cat like after 2 years.. burned out my next cat.. broke the cat after that, ran the next cat and took it out.. put a metal and took it out, put the ceramic back in.. took that out.. put a metal one in and I have run the metal ever since...

Iv gotten at least 2 years out of the ceramic.. but haven't had one in that I haven't broken while cleaning.. and died because of Longevity..

 

[arnermd]

Project for the afternoon, found a damper without holes but found they do not seal very well along the OD. There was big gap between the OD of the flapper and the ID of the pipe. Made some stops up out of some sheet steel I had kicking around. Came out decent, not as good as I had envisioned but functional I think. We shall see tonight.....

 

[arnermd]

Well..... not sure what to think. Stove is definitely acting different.

• Draft was reduced for sure, 0.05 - 0.09 with damper open and depending on stack temp. This was my target range. Still fairly warm outside so that reduces draft as well.
  • When I close the damper the draft definitely responds down. These runs were with the damper open.
• Has been a struggle to get cat up to temp.
  • First burn was a small load, 2-3 med splits, ran with 100% on the air. Cat got to 650 and hung there.
  • Second burn was a 50% load, set it to 50% air and went to bed. Cat spiked to 1200 and the quickly decayed.
• Feels like I am getting more primary heat and less secondary heat, a lot of yellow flame in the firebox, although not as vigorous as with the old damper..... Griddle temps seem higher for same air settings compared to before.
• Glass is fairly clean this morning, some coals left in the firebox.
• Noticed a touch of smoke when I reloaded, think I was getting some smoke rollout when I opened the griddle. I typically do not burp my griddle when I reload as the draft has been so strong, need to try doing that going forward.

Conclusion: Stove is acting different, not sure if it is better or not yet.... Need some cold nights. Suspect I might have overdone the restrictions.... Need more data. If needed I can easily open it up a bit.

 

[arnermd]

This morning I lit off a smaller load, once I engaged the cat I set the air to 100% and left it. Got distracted by other things, cat went to 1500 (draft was 0.13 iwc), I reduced air to 10% and the cat temp responded immediately. This is a new thing for this stove, usually temps do not drop that fast. I like it.... I can deal with operator error.

Also noticing the cat temps never seem to stabilize for very long, always going up or down. Although on this load, if I had been paying attention, it looks like I could have put it at 1200 for 45 min or so. Not sure if this is a result of the smaller loads or me relearning how to run it, or something else.....

 

[NewGuy132]

Either your cat is bad.. or you didn't have enough coals to keep the cat lit off..

Wow I stay away from the thread for a short vacation and this thread blew up. @Woodsplitter67 great posts about how you are operating. I am operating about the same way, (hot reloads on coals, closing damper right away, not messing with air too much) except I am not getting the CAT temps.

This is my 2nd season with my stove and it seems to me that the CAT went bad. Any advice about getting one under the warranty or should I just buy one?

 

[njk4o5]

Wow I stay away from the thread for a short vacation and this thread blew up. @Woodsplitter67 great posts about how you are operating. I am operating about the same way, (hot reloads on coals, closing damper right away, not messing with air too much) except I am not getting the CAT temps.

This is my 2nd season with my stove and it seems to me that the CAT went bad. Any advice about getting one under the warranty or should I just buy one?

it likely didnt go bad, from what I've found, and reading through so many posts, VC stoves are a huge PIA to make run correctly.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

it likely didnt go bad, from what I've found, and reading through so many posts, VC stoves are a huge PIA to make run correctly.

not really.. like the OP stated... heas had good success running the stove

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Wow I stay away from the thread for a short vacation and this thread blew up. @Woodsplitter67 great posts about how you are operating. I am operating about the same way, (hot reloads on coals, closing damper right away, not messing with air too much) except I am not getting the CAT temps.

This is my 2nd season with my stove and it seems to me that the CAT went bad. Any advice about getting one under the warranty or should I just buy one?

Heres a couple things.. 1 did you clean the cat. This would be a solid vacuuming. 2 Have you vacuumed the cat chamber and the 8 secondary air holes 3 have you inspected the cat to see condition.. if its getting brittle it may be at the end

What stove is this..

 

[NewGuy132]

Heres a couple things.. 1 did you clean the cat. This would be a solid vacuuming. 2 Have you vacuumed the cat chamber and the 8 secondary air holes 3 have you inspected the cat to see condition.. if its getting brittle it may be at the end

What stove is this..

Assuming that the wife hasn't started a fire today (Mid 40's so it could go either way) I'll snap a picture when I get home.

I clean my chimney monthly so about 3 weeks ago when I cleaned last I pulled the cat out and vacuumed any fly ash out of it and stuck the shop vac hose back where it sits to clear any crap out of there. The CAT looks to be in decent shape. Last year I had issues with wet wood and had a sweep come out midseason. He pulled the CAT and it was really clogged up. This year I am seeming to not have that problem. Once I pulled it and a couple cells were clogged, then pulled it a couple days later and it had cleared itself up. This lets me know that it is getting hot enough, I just think that whatever magic dust they put on these isn't working.

This is on a 2020 Intrepid Flexburn.

 

[njk4o5]

not really.. like the OP stated... heas had good success running the stove

thats not how i read it, and not how ive read so many countless other threads about these stoves. I have been doing tons of research on running the VC stoves since i have an Encore that is a huge pain to make run correctly and my only conclusion thus far is that VC stoves have damn good looks but not much else. You would think after so many years of making mediocre wood stoves that the new ones would be better to run (i.e. get a decent coal bed going, load her up full, close the damper and set the thermostat lever to whatever). But so many people like me have hard a hard time getting them to not run too hot or cold its a constant check on the stove every 30mins. This season is it for me, I'm throwing in the towel and moving on to another brand. Good thing my Encore is the blue enamel it should sell quick i would hope.

Seems you have been running that VC Encore for a good while, and had to replace the CAT alot, surprised you still like it and havnt moved to another brand yet to be honest. It shouldnt take a whole bunch of science experiments like there are in this very thread to make a darn woodstove run correctly.

 

[NewGuy132]

thats not how i read it, and not how ive read so many countless other threads about these stoves. I have been doing tons of research on running the VC stoves since i have an Encore that is a huge pain to make run correctly and my only conclusion thus far is that VC stoves have damn good looks but not much else. You would think after so many years of making mediocre wood stoves that the new ones would be better to run (i.e. get a decent coal bed going, load her up full, close the damper and set the thermostat lever to whatever). But so many people like me have hard a hard time getting them to not run too hot or cold its a constant check on the stove every 30mins. This season is it for me, I'm throwing in the towel and moving on to another brand. Good thing my Encore is the blue enamel it should sell quick i would hope.

Seems you have been running that VC Encore for a good while, and had to replace the CAT alot, surprised you still like it and havnt moved to another brand yet to be honest. It shouldnt take a whole bunch of science experiments like there are in this very thread to make a darn woodstove run correctly.

This year since my wood situation is better I am having much fewer problems running the stove. Once I get a decent coal bed established toss 2-3 fresh splits, close the damper and set the air to about 2/3 closed and walk away. Typically my STT will hit 550-650 and my CAT temp will do the same. The CAT temp may go in to the 700's but only for a couple minutes and then it pretty much stays within 50 degrees or so of STT. The CAT gets hot enough to light off, but it never becomes self sustaining. I know there is stuff to burn because I still get some smoke out of the chimney(this is why I clean it out every month).

Last year I was always worried about my stove running too hot or about it running away from me. Turns out I just spent too much time reading threads on there and didn't have enough experience with actually running a stove. Not saying at all that people don't have real issues, but I let that get in my head and wasn't running the stove hot enough. I pretty much just let the stove do what it needs to do once I get the air set.

 

[Diabel]

550-600 stt and same for cat temp, in my books this would fall into a non-cat burn territory.

 

[arnermd]

This year since my wood situation is better I am having much fewer problems running the stove. Once I get a decent coal bed established toss 2-3 fresh splits, close the damper and set the air to about 2/3 closed and walk away. Typically my STT will hit 550-650 and my CAT temp will do the same. The CAT temp may go in to the 700's but only for a couple minutes and then it pretty much stays within 50 degrees or so of STT. The CAT gets hot enough to light off, but it never becomes self sustaining. I know there is stuff to burn because I still get some smoke out of the chimney(this is why I clean it out every month).

Last year I was always worried about my stove running too hot or about it running away from me. Turns out I just spent too much time reading threads on there and didn't have enough experience with actually running a stove. Not saying at all that people don't have real issues, but I let that get in my head and wasn't running the stove hot enough. I pretty much just let the stove do what it needs to do once I get the air set.

Have you checked your draft? I ask because since I reduced mine this weekend I have struggled to get the cat temps up to 1200. It wants to stall at 600, 800 and 1000. To get it up over 1000 I need a very healthy bed of coals and some fresh wood. This is on a stove and setup that would go to 1500 if you looked at it funny.... I have seen a big change in the personality of the stove after reducing the draft. It has also been warmer and I am running smaller loads so that may be contributing factors.

I am not an expert but I am pretty sure a cat that runs 50 deg above stove top is way too cold..... If that works for you then God bless, enjoy it, it sure beats the alternative..... But I am pretty confident that is not the way the stove was intended to run.

 

[arnermd]

More data from last nights burns....

First burn was a lot of monkeying around with the damper and air, so that was me messing with things.

Second load had a very deep coal bed, loaded 3-4 med splits, closed the damper, set the air to 50% and left it alone. Seems fairly stable but a bit low..... 4 hours of cat burn seems pretty reasonable to me.

Still thinking I may have to increase damper area to bump the draft up a bit, but I am going to wait for colder weather before making any changes.

 

[NewGuy132]

I am not an expert but I am pretty sure a cat that runs 50 deg above stove top is way too cold..... If that works for you then God bless, enjoy it, it sure beats the alternative..... But I am pretty confident that is not the way the stove was intended to run.

I completely agree. This is why I am thinking that I am having CAT issues. Other than the cat not going to temp the stove is running fine. On reload the cat will get up to 650-700 or so, but it will quickly fall down to within 50 degrees or so of STT. I have the Auber and walk by it and see the Auber at about 650 most of the time. At 700 degrees I'd think that the CAT should be lit enough to start generating its own heat and start making it's way to 1000+ degrees. Also on reloads I push all coals to the back of the stove. Even If I dont close my bypass I get a raise in CAT temp since I pushed all of coals to the back. As far as draft goes I haven't had it measured, but I have good draft. I go out the back of a stove to a T then straight up. My house is 2 floors with 10 ft ceilings and a very steep roof. The chimney is at the top of that so I figure 28-30ft once you include the attic.

 

[NewGuy132]

More data from last nights burns....

First burn was a lot of monkeying around with the damper and air, so that was me messing with things.

Second load had a very deep coal bed, loaded 3-4 med splits, closed the damper, set the air to 50% and left it alone. Seems fairly stable but a bit low..... 4 hours of cat burn seems pretty reasonable to me.

Still thinking I may have to increase damper area to bump the draft up a bit, but I am going to wait for colder weather before making any changes.

View attachment 306895

What app/probes are you using to get these? Just curious if I should have picked up whatever this is over my Auber.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

thats not how i read it, and not how ive read so many countless other threads about these stoves. I have been doing tons of research on running the VC stoves since i have an Encore that is a huge pain to make run correctly and my only conclusion thus far is that VC stoves have damn good looks but not much else. You would think after so many years of making mediocre wood stoves that the new ones would be better to run (i.e. get a decent coal bed going, load her up full, close the damper and set the thermostat lever to whatever). But so many people like me have hard a hard time getting them to not run too hot or cold its a constant check on the stove every 30mins. This season is it for me, I'm throwing in the towel and moving on to another brand. Good thing my Encore is the blue enamel it should sell quick i would hope.

Seems you have been running that VC Encore for a good while, and had to replace the CAT alot, surprised you still like it and havnt moved to another brand yet to be honest. It shouldnt take a whole bunch of science experiments like there are in this very thread to make a darn woodstove run correctly.

Unfortunately you have nothing positive to add.. this is not a place for bitching and complaints. If you have a question then ask, if you need assistance post a question that can be answered so someone with some knowledge can help

This is great.. sell you stove, very happy for you, some others need to follow you example.

As for me and my cats.. Please reread my post.. I broke 2 of them cleaning.. this is not an issue with the stove or manufacturer, thats my fault.. I solved the issue by going to a steel cat.. don't really see an issue with that.

Im super happy with my choice.. There are alot of people that are happy with the vc stove they have.. . most dont post or stay on a thread like this because of the responses like yours..

Good luck with your next choice of stove, happy new year..