2022/23 VC Owner thread

[bert670]

Hey Bert,
Do you get the long burn times of 11 hours with the cat ? how is your stove holding up in general?

Good question, so I had the stove installed in February of this year. I don't remember if I checked the cat or not after install, but when I went to do my spring cleaning of the stove I found the cat laying down against the floor in the 'cat area' when it should have been standing up long ways in the cat 'area'. So can't say how the burn time was effected by the positioning of it. With that being said I was overall happy with the performance. I burned around the clock for a good portion of the end of the season, and I would say 8-9 hr burns were easy overnight with embers leftover to get a fire going the next morning. I am not sure what wood I was burning since I had to use a wood service last year, some wood burned noticeably longer than others. This year I have some of that leftover, plus a lot of oak and ash that I processed myself, so I should have a better feel for burning different wood types. One thing I wasn't happy with was the handle on he top grate door. It became loose during the season, and when I to tighten it, the bolt snapped off rather easy. I replaced it and will be more careful next time. I have a 15' straight vertical flue, so draft has not been a problem at all. Let me know if you have any questions, I usually check this thread every so often, so might not get a reply for a week or so.

 

[gthomas785]

Sooooooo? When can you tell that the Cat is hot enough to be active and ready to be engaged without a temp probe? Curious.

VC stoves work a little differently from other cat stoves, the cat doesn't really heat up until you shut the bypass. Rule of thumb you need the stovetop around 400-500 before you shut the bypass, then the cat can heat up and light off. If you shut it too early, the fire dies down and the cat will not light off...

 

[vernorz]

So I finished the break in fires for our new Dauntless and had our first "real" fire in it last night. No cat installed. I just had a few questions regarding measuring stove and pipe temperatures. Where on the stove top should I measure the temperature? The griddle? Just behind the griddle? The temperature just behind the griddle warms up much faster and is much warmer than the griddle. Should I go by griddle temperature for determining when to close the bypass or the hottest part of the stove?

I have a Rutland pipe thermometer on single wall pipe, 6" above the stove per the instructions. Is this where I should have it? And how far up the pipe should the temps be above 300 degrees as far as creosote is concerned?

 

[gthomas785]

So I finished the break in fires for our new Dauntless and had our first "real" fire in it last night. No cat installed. I just had a few questions regarding measuring stove and pipe temperatures. Where on the stove top should I measure the temperature? The griddle? Just behind the griddle? The temperature just behind the griddle warms up much faster and is much warmer than the griddle. Should I go by griddle temperature for determining when to close the bypass or the hottest part of the stove?

I have a Rutland pipe thermometer on single wall pipe, 6" above the stove per the instructions. Is this where I should have it? And how far up the pipe should the temps be above 300 degrees as far as creosote is concerned?

I think 6" above the stove is a little close - you may get a high reading due to radiated heat from the stove top. The number I usually hear quoted for flue thermometers is 18".

I usually use flue temp to decide when to shut the bypass because the flue temperature is most responsive to what the fire is actually doing. On a cold start I let mine get to about 850F internal (would be around 500 surface temp), whereas on a reload I would close it sooner maybe around 650-700 internal.
Once it's operating, as long as the cat is lit off and you're burning clean, it's fine for the flue temp to dip into the yellow a little - after all one of the ways you gain efficiency from a cat stove is with cleaner exhaust at lower temperatures.
Just experiment and figure out what your stove likes.

For measuring surface temps you can use the griddle or the spot right behind it, just always measure in the same place to get consistent readings. I believe the guideline temps in the manual are supposed to be in the center of the griddle.

Edit: just re-read and saw you are not using the cat. In that case I don't know about the acceptable flue temps.

 

[vernorz]

I've seen 18" as the standard as well so I'm curious why Rutland would say no more than 6" on this thermometer. Unfortunately this is a hearth installed stove and 18" is too high up in the fireplace for me to see without sticking my head up in there. So burning with the bypass closed ,and primary air all the way open, the stove is running about 500-550 just behind the griddle, 360 on the pipe just above the stove collar, and 200-230 at 18". These were taken with an infrared thermometer. I'm guessing my wood may not be dry enough, although I did split and measure a fresh split and it was at 17-18%.

 

[gthomas785]

Could be. How much wood did you put in?

 

[vernorz]

I filled it about 1/2 full with 3" splits. It's been steady for the past 2 hours with the bypass closed and primary all the way open, stovetop 400-450, 360ish on the pipe at 6" and 220ish at 18".

 

[GrumpyDad]

So I finished the break in fires for our new Dauntless and had our first "real" fire in it last night. No cat installed. I just had a few questions regarding measuring stove and pipe temperatures. Where on the stove top should I measure the temperature? The griddle? Just behind the griddle? The temperature just behind the griddle warms up much faster and is much warmer than the griddle. Should I go by griddle temperature for determining when to close the bypass or the hottest part of the stove?

I have a Rutland pipe thermometer on single wall pipe, 6" above the stove per the instructions. Is this where I should have it? And how far up the pipe should the temps be above 300 degrees as far as creosote is concerned?

I had wildly varying temps on my griddle. A laser thermometer was also challenging to get a good reading on the griddle. I put the thermometer on the cast iron part behind the griddle towards in the center towards the flue pipe. I also tried on the sides of the back and sides of the griddle. You can get a sense of an aggregate number by doing this and taking measurements and determining the variances, so that whereever you put it, you can quickly calculate in your head where the stove is at overall actually.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Im keeping mine on the griddle but all the way back and to the center. Im keeping the one on the stove pipe about a foot up from the stove.. If seems that some of you guys are running without the cat... my suggestion is if you're closing the bypass.. it's better if you have the cat in.. your stove performance will be better, less creosote.. you will.see a different also in the stove pipe temperature..

 

[t0asty]

Quick question on creosote/soot buildup on the glass. This is my first season with a stove with glass doors (VC Encore, coming from Defiant 1975 solid cast iron), on my 3rd break in fire and already had to clean the glass because there was so much build up. Is it normal to have this occur so rapidly? I was thinking maybe I was closing the doors too quickly and need to let the fire get much hotter/longer before I close the doors? I have 2yr old seasoned dry red oak as well as seasoned maple so I am curious if this is normal or maybe something I can do to prevent this from happening so quickly. Thanks!

 

[gthomas785]

Quick question on creosote/soot buildup on the glass. This is my first season with a stove with glass doors (VC Encore, coming from Defiant 1975 solid cast iron), on my 3rd break in fire and already had to clean the glass because there was so much build up. Is it normal to have this occur so rapidly? I was thinking maybe I was closing the doors too quickly and need to let the fire get much hotter/longer before I close the doors? I have 2yr old seasoned dry red oak as well as seasoned maple so I am curious if this is normal or maybe something I can do to prevent this from happening so quickly. Thanks!

Once you get a hotter fire it should burn off. The break in fires tend to smoke up the glass due to the lower temperature. Perhaps leaving the door cracked a bit would also have helped, but see how it behaves with a full load of wood before you get too worried about it.
Unseasoned wood is a common culprit for sooty glass. If it keeps up just check a re-split piece of your wood with a moisture meter. Oak is notoriously difficult to dry and can sometimes hang on to a bit of moisture even after 2 years, believe it or not..

 

[t0asty]

Once you get a hotter fire it should burn off. The break in fires tend to smoke up the glass due to the lower temperature. Perhaps leaving the door cracked a bit would also have helped, but see how it behaves with a full load of wood before you get too worried about it.
Unseasoned wood is a common culprit for sooty glass. If it keeps up just check a re-split piece of your wood with a moisture meter. Oak is notoriously difficult to dry and can sometimes hang on to a bit of moisture even after 2 years, believe it or not..

Thanks--good points all around. Actually leads me to two follow up questions:
1) This is my hottest break-in fire yet, and I am getting smoke detectors going off and some white smoke in the house. I checked the collar and elbow fittings and don't see any smoke coming out. However, it looks like some oil/wax is burning off of the stainless plate on top. Again, is this a normal occurrence or do I need to do some more serious diagnosis? First two lower temp fires did not have this effect.

2) I am burning with the cat in place but not engaging/closing the damper since I am still breaking in. Is this how you guys have done it or if the stove is cold do you recommend taking out the CAT when not in use? I have a AT100 thermo so I can see the temp and it isn't getting too hot not engaged (175-200 range) but just wanted to make sure.

Thanks again!

 

[GrumpyDad]

Thanks--good points all around. Actually leads me to two follow up questions:
1) This is my hottest break-in fire yet, and I am getting smoke detectors going off and some white smoke in the house. I checked the collar and elbow fittings and don't see any smoke coming out. However, it looks like some oil/wax is burning off of the stainless plate on top. Again, is this a normal occurrence or do I need to do some more serious diagnosis? First two lower temp fires did not have this effect.

2) I am burning with the cat in place but not engaging/closing the damper since I am still breaking in. Is this how you guys have done it or if the stove is cold do you recommend taking out the CAT when not in use? I have a AT100 thermo so I can see the temp and it isn't getting too hot not engaged (175-200 range) but just wanted to make sure.

Thanks again!

Yes normal. I had smoke for a few fires and smell. I'm burning tonight and tomorrow as I need to check as I had smoke coming from the heat shield those two sides. From within those two chambers. Only when I don't have secondary engaged. I'll be super po'd if it continues. It's not a lot but enough to make the eyes burn.

 

[t0asty]

Yes normal. I had smoke for a few fires and smell. I'm burning tonight and tomorrow as I need to check as I had smoke coming from the heat shield those two sides. From within those two chambers. Only when I don't have secondary engaged. I'll be super po'd if it continues. It's not a lot but enough to make the eyes burn.

Yeah it's not a good situation. I don't think it is from the wood as if I have a gap/leak in the stove pipe, it doesn't smell like it anyway. I had a flashlight and got eye level and tried to check for smoke and there is only a faint amount coming off the stainless plate and maybe around the heat shields around the collar like you mentioned. Hard to say exactly, but yes frustrating. All my smokes are tied together so the whole house goes off and I have to silence multiple and the dogs go crazy - currently have the windows open

 

[GrumpyDad]

hows your draft? Do you have a ton of white smoke coming out the stack or? Once you establish a nice coal bed, and throw a few modest splits on those coals, then let that get ripping, can you close the damper to route through secondary and see if it still smokes?
My first few break in fires were of low level > mid, and I had smoke / smell everywhere honestly. Not like the levels you would if you forget to open the damper and then open the top hatch and smoke pours into the house. But enough to set off smoke detector for sure.

 

[t0asty]

hows your draft? Do you have a ton of white smoke coming out the stack or? Once you establish a nice coal bed, and throw a few modest splits on those coals, then let that get ripping, can you close the damper to route through secondary and see if it still smokes?
My first few break in fires were of low level > mid, and I had smoke / smell everywhere honestly. Not like the levels you would if you forget to open the damper and then open the top hatch and smoke pours into the house. But enough to set off smoke detector for sure.

I actually have not closed the damper/engaged the cat yet. I have a nice warm fire right now. Top is 500 degrees and the CAT probe is reading 275. Should I engage the CAT as part of the break in process? I was under the impression since the break in fires would be low temp and gradually stepping up each time it was still not hot enough for the cat. I actually just lowered the air control to try and get the temp down as I don't want it getting too hot, but hot enough to burn off any leftover oil/wax.
My draft has been great, I just looked outside at chimney and I can't see any smoke really with this current fire since it is hot.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I actually have not closed the damper/engaged the cat yet. I have a nice warm fire right now. Top is 500 degrees and the CAT probe is reading 275. Should I engage the CAT as part of the break in process? I was under the impression since the break in fires would be low temp and gradually stepping up each time it was still not hot enough for the cat. I actually just lowered the air control to try and get the temp down as I don't want it getting too hot, but hot enough to burn off any leftover oil/wax.
My draft has been great, I just looked outside at chimney and I can't see any smoke really with this current fire since it is hot.

when your doing your break in fires its probably best not to cut the air back that much.. better to use a smaller amounts of wood and just add some here and there. I had a small fire last week and my glass is completely clean.. dirty glass in an indication of the airs cut back to far. the only time my glass isn't clean is when I do an overnight burn.. otherwise it stays pretty clean.. The other is even though your woods seasoned for 2 years doesn't mean its dry until you open the wood up and test it on the inside with a moisture meter.. Do the break in fires then once the paint is cured engage the cat on the next fire..

 

[GrumpyDad]

when your doing your break in fires its probably best not to cut the air back that much.. better to use a smaller amounts of wood and just add some here and there. I had a small fire last week and my glass is completely clean.. dirty glass in an indication of the airs cut back to far. the only time my glass isn't clean is when I do an overnight burn.. otherwise it stays pretty clean.. The other is even though your woods seasoned for 2 years doesn't mean its dry until you open the wood up and test it on the inside with a moisture meter.. Do the break in fires then once the paint is cured engage the cat on the next fire..

What does your cat probe say? That will tell you when your cat is burning. I do not think you need to wait to switch to secondary though. It just wont burn as efficiently if the cat isnt firing through secondary.

 

[t0asty]

What does your cat probe say? That will tell you when your cat is burning. I do not think you need to wait to switch to secondary though. It just wont burn as efficiently if the cat isnt firing through secondary.

Instead of the standard cat probe that is provided with the stove, I put in a digital thermometer. That thermometer is reading ~275 but again, I have not closed the damper so the cat shouldn't be lit as I am not forcing air through it to re-burn.

 

[gthomas785]

Your new stove will smoke a little bit anytime it hits a new high temperature. That's just the nature of the paint and the oil coating that they put on the griddle to keep it from rusting. Once you've done the break in fires the paint will be cured, but it will still give off a bit of that new stove smell once you start to really heat it up. After it's made a trip to 750 and back you won't notice the smoke/smell anymore.

 

[begreen]

At over 750º another smell will be noticeable. I call it the too hot stove (or stovepipe) smell. Try not to go there.

 

[Jmorg]

Hey y’all, I just installed the catalytic “performance pack” in the Dauntless today. The temperature probe was a lot easier to install than I thought it would be. I’ll probably test it out tomorrow since it will be cooler and rainy again. I made a little video of the finished product just to kind of show how it looks and how easy it was…maybe it will be a help to some of you other Dauntless owners. I’m still surprised at how little info is available online for this stove.

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[Woodsplitter67]

Hey y’all, I just installed the catalytic “performance pack” in the Dauntless today. The temperature probe was a lot easier to install than I thought it would be. I’ll probably test it out tomorrow since it will be cooler and rainy again. I made a little video of the finished product just to kind of show how it looks and how easy it was…maybe it will be a help to some of you other Dauntless owners. I’m still surprised at how little info is available online for this stove.

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I watched your video.. thanks for posting. I have an encore so my cumbuster sits a little different, I couldn't help notice how much spaller the combuster is. Now that you have the bracket on the back you may want to switch to a digital probe.. I had that same bimetal thermometer on mine and found it difficult. The bi mettle thermometer is so slow and sometimes the cat would be lit and you wouldn't know it, or you dont know if the cat stalled.. the digital is so much better.. theres no time delay and you see the exact temperature the whole time

 

[Jmorg]

I watched your video.. thanks for posting. I have an encore so my cumbuster sits a little different, I couldn't help notice how much spaller the combuster is. Now that you have the bracket on the back you may want to switch to a digital probe.. I had that same bimetal thermometer on mine and found it difficult. The bi mettle thermometer is so slow and sometimes the cat would be lit and you wouldn't know it, or you dont know if the cat stalled.. the digital is so much better.. theres no time delay and you see the exact temperature the whole time

Yeah, I definitely want to get a digital one. Maybe that will be next year’s upgrade…don’t wanna get in trouble with the wife for spending too much on this thing lol. The cat is definitely smaller than the one in your stove so I hope it works well. I’ll know soon I guess!

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Yeah, I definitely want to get a digital one. Maybe that will be next year’s upgrade…don’t wanna get in trouble with the wife for spending too much on this thing lol. The cat is definitely smaller than the one in your stove so I hope it works well. I’ll know soon I guess!

your cat should be fine.. Try the steel cat if its made for your stove. I purchased one a couple years ago and ran it starting January. They light off quick and ran well, I did my clean out in may and everything looked really good.. the steel cat is also a little cheaper, and more durable. You dont need to be super careful with it when you clean your stove out.. you'll see what i mean come mid January with the ceramic cat..