2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 2 (Everything BK)

[jetsam]

Hi, I have questions about running a BK with or without the fan. What I have observed is:

If I run it without the fan: I get longer burn times, but less heat, and the cat gets VERY hot and stays active even when I am down to embers. Is it bad for the cat to be super hot when the stove is on high?

If I run the fans, I definitely get more heat, shorter burn times and the cat never gets into the last quarter of the gage, even on high, so it stays cooler overall and it goes inactive much, much faster ... even though I still have a good couple of hours or more of burn left. But isn't this creating more creosote?

I am burning birch, which has about 11% moisture content.

Should I worry about the cat going inactive so soon when the fans are on or it getting super hot (near the end range of the cat thermometer) without the fans on?

How much smoke is normal to be seen going out the chimney with the cat in the active zone? When my cat is at 12 o'clock position, I am able to see smoke, not just vapours. Is this normal?

The cat probe is measuring air temperatures right behind the cat, but the fan may cool the thermometer itself and cause a low reading. For an accurate reading, turn off the fan for 10 minutes and then look at it.

You can't do anything (except add fuel) to create creosote in the last 25% of the burn. All the volatile organics burn off in the first half.

Your cat temps will settle down even more as the cat ages.

 

[sw18x]

Referencing aaronk25 and isucet...

As you can see from the pics the question of what effect high (or low) draft has on airflow in the stove is of direct concern to me. You can probably guess why. I am in conversations with Chris and blazeking already and so have held back from commenting on this forum but I would appreciate thoughts on this. Has anyone ever seen this type of smoke pattern pounding one side of the stove? The theory about high draft pulling air away from glass makes sense to me, but I also heard the comment that high draft will lead to a v shaped pattern on the glass. I have v shaped pattern. I have smoke smell. Air pattern seems way off here. This is a brand new gasket and everything is clean except this one spot on the...you guessed it...hinge side.

 

[jetsam]

We call it "door clevage"!

Princesses naturally have clevage when they are running on low.

When she gets hot, it all comes off.

 

[sw18x]

Not too concerned about the glass. It's all the creosote aimed at that one single spot on the gasket that I'm curious about.

 

[kf6hap]

Looks a lot like my door. Running the stove wide open for 20 minutes at startup helps but the creosote will return at turndown. Normal.

 

[Highbeam]

Referencing aaronk25 and isucet...

As you can see from the pics the question of what effect high (or low) draft has on airflow in the stove is of direct concern to me. You can probably guess why. I am in conversations with Chris and blazeking already and so have held back from commenting on this forum but I would appreciate thoughts on this. Has anyone ever seen this type of smoke pattern pounding one side of the stove? The theory about high draft pulling air away from glass makes sense to me, but I also heard the comment that high draft will lead to a v shaped pattern on the glass. I have v shaped pattern. I have smoke smell. Air pattern seems way off here. This is a brand new gasket and everything is clean except this one spot on the...you guessed it...hinge side.

Yep, totally normal. The pattern of the glass mess is typical of a bk burned low. If there is something else in that photo that you’re worried about then please point it out.

 

[lsucet]

Referencing aaronk25 and isucet...

As you can see from the pics the question of what effect high (or low) draft has on airflow in the stove is of direct concern to me. You can probably guess why. I am in conversations with Chris and blazeking already and so have held back from commenting on this forum but I would appreciate thoughts on this. Has anyone ever seen this type of smoke pattern pounding one side of the stove? The theory about high draft pulling air away from glass makes sense to me, but I also heard the comment that high draft will lead to a v shaped pattern on the glass. I have v shaped pattern. I have smoke smell. Air pattern seems way off here. This is a brand new gasket and everything is clean except this one spot on the...you guessed it...hinge side.

Like others mentioned it is normal. I will advise trying to not load to close to the glass, char the wood a little more and don't go to your low settings to quick. That helps to keep the glass cleaner and the V shape not too pronounce. I Know, I know. If I burn too hot on reloads I go down to my low settings in baby steps, letting the temp of the flue drop some before my final setting for the rest of the burn.
Don't hurt to try it. I do have good results doing it like that. If I am in a hurry I don't let the burn get too hot and don't let the flue temp get up too much, then I can just go straight to my low setting.

 

[sw18x]

I am pointing out that the gasket is charred and discolored in one spot only, rest of gasket is clean, this spot coincides with the exact location of smoke / creosote seepage from stove, why is the smoke gravitating to this one spot on the gasket is the question. Seems like this charring and discoloration indictates an imbalance of airflow.

 

[tarzan]

I am pointing out that the gasket is charred and discolored in one spot only, rest of gasket is clean, this spot coincides with the exact location of smoke / creosote seepage from stove, why is the smoke gravitating to this one spot on the gasket is the question. Seems like this charring and discoloration indictates an imbalance of airflow.

From the pic it looks like there may not be enough gasket material in the bottom right hand corner for a proper seal.

 

[sw18x]

Yes, you are right about the gasket not seating properly. This is gasket #2, issued by BK, installed by dealer. Not sure why they aren't seating. Funny thing is, there's also a small gap in the gasket on the latch side where the two ends come together. One morning on a cold start when I forgot to throw the bypass, I had smoke spillage, I quick shut the door and latched it to contain the smoke, and to my surprise I literally watched smoke roll out that gap. Yet, when the stove runs, no smoke no stink from the latch side. Hence my theory that the air is not moving evenly in the stove, or else I would have the same stink issue from the latch side, if not worse.

 

[darktower007]

Question:
I have suspect semi dry oak at 18/20% mc
When I cold start or pack on coals it doesn’t really “catch” or engulf in flames. It takes a while to start, and per the manual... once it all catches and chars it should be ready to close bypass.

Should I buy a pack of kiln dried wood and replicate the process to see its my wood?
It eventually catches and burns fine, but takes a good hour to get going well.


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[rdust]

That is one hell of a good looking split on the right.

That is one hell of a good looking split on the right.

Had to shorten some splits tonight so hand picked a few of the good ones.

 

[darktower007]

Had to shorten some splits tonight so hand picked a few of the good ones.

View attachment 237995

Beauty! Man that wood looks ancient


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AlbergSteve]

Yes, you are right about the gasket not seating properly. This is gasket #2, issued by BK, installed by dealer. Not sure why they aren't seating. Funny thing is, there's also a small gap in the gasket on the latch side where the two ends come together. One morning on a cold start when I forgot to throw the bypass, I had smoke spillage, I quick shut the door and latched it to contain the smoke, and to my surprise I literally watched smoke roll out that gap. Yet, when the stove runs, no smoke no stink from the latch side. Hence my theory that the air is not moving evenly in the stove, or else I would have the same stink issue from the latch side, if not worse.

That's a pretty crappy joint, there should be no gaps. I installed my own...no installer is going to take the time to do it right.

 

[lsucet]

Question:
I have suspect semi dry oak at 18/20% mc
When I cold start or pack on coals it doesn’t really “catch” or engulf in flames. It takes a while to start, and per the manual... once it all catches and chars it should be ready to close bypass.

Should I buy a pack of kiln dried wood and replicate the process to see its my wood?
It eventually catches and burns fine, but takes a good hour to get going well.


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I think you supposed to close bypass when the probe is at the active zone. You don't need to wait for the wood to char to close the bypass. You are waiting too long if I understood correctly. On reloads if the cat still active just close the door and bypass. It is ok crack the door till flames appears, once that happens shut everything if cat is active.

 

[darktower007]

I think you supposed to close bypass when the probe is at the active zone. You don't need to wait for the wood to char to close the bypass. You are waiting too long if I understood correctly. On reloads if the cat still active just close the door and bypass. It is ok crack the door till flames appears, once that happens shut everything if cat is active.

Okay great. Will try that.


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[Highbeam]

Had to shorten some splits tonight so hand picked a few of the good ones.

View attachment 237995

These pictures inspire me to split bigger. Trouble is it will be 2-3 years before I get to experience them while I wait for them to dry.

 

[lsucet]

Had to shorten some splits tonight so hand picked a few of the good ones.

View attachment 237995

Can you stop making me jealous

 

[MissMac]

Had to shorten some splits tonight so hand picked a few of the good ones.

View attachment 237995

Oh my word! I don’t think i’ve ever seen a stove packed so nicely. I imagine that you’re really reaping the max benefits of long burn times with those hogs. Is your stove cold in that pic? If so, how the heck do you get those things going in a decent amount of time. They look like they would demand a nice bed of hot coals to behave.

 

[rdust]

Beauty! Man that wood looks ancient


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Got me thinking so I looked through some pictures. The oak being used this year has been around a while, it was cut in July if 2012. Probably split and stacked in the spring if 2013.

These pictures inspire me to split bigger. Trouble is it will be 2-3 years before I get to experience them while I wait for them to dry.

I split big cause I’m lazy, it makes every part go faster. Less time splitting and less time stacking. The wood I’m burning now came from a time when I was WAY ahead so I think I was really burned out on the wood processing at that point so made bigger splits.

Can you stop making me jealous

Oh my word! I don’t think i’ve ever seen a stove packed so nicely. I imagine that you’re really reaping the max benefits of long burn times with those hogs. Is your stove cold in that pic? If so, how the heck do you get those things going in a decent amount of time. They look like they would demand a nice bed of hot coals to behave.

Those were hand picked, probably my best stove load(ever) with cord wood. I have some 4x6 oak blocks that stack great but I don’t like burning those. They crib the stacks nice and easy. Stove was hot with a nice coal bed, took a little longer than normal to get going but nothing awful.

 

[rdust]

Question:
I have suspect semi dry oak at 18/20% mc
When I cold start or pack on coals it doesn’t really “catch” or engulf in flames. It takes a while to start, and per the manual... once it all catches and chars it should be ready to close bypass.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

18-20% isn’t semi dry, it’s dry if it’s being check on a fresh split at room temperature.

Honestly I have no idea how people post here about such low moisture content. For kicks I just split an oak chunk that was a 5x6 rectangle from 2013 that’s been inside since last night. In my environment I don’t think I can do much better than this.

 

[Diabel]

Princess has been behaving as advertised.

When is very cold smaller loads have been working better.

 

[webby3650]

That's a pretty crappy joint, there should be no gaps. I installed my own...no installer is going to take the time to do it right.
View attachment 237997

Really?

 

[bholler]

That's a pretty crappy joint, there should be no gaps. I installed my own...no installer is going to take the time to do it right.
View attachment 237997

Really???

 

[Woody Stover]

The stove is also completely controllable and useable at draft above 0.18”

So you haven't noticed what aaronk25 mentioned? Not sure what's going on there (or with other BK mysteries.)

The results of not dampered .17” and if the thermostat on the stove it’s turned down lower to compensate for the extra draft all being equal I loose about 35% of the burn time to maintain the same room temp under the same conditions. Also the thermostat isn’t nearly as effective under high draft conditions.

If I were happy to never run the stove at wide-open throttle, I’d probably not need a damper... but I have a very high head load in my house.

Agreed, your head is quite the load. I know, I know, heat load is what you meant. I may have mentioned it before but in that cavern of yours, I might have gone straight to the Kings. For a similar amount of money spent on stoves (excluding 8" chimney of course,) they kick the butt of the Princess in output, which kicks the butt of the Ashford. Loading two stoves, those 4.3 boxes might come in handy. All You'd have to do to shield your eyes from the ungainly appearance of the King, is to put up a couple of these:
Link Removed

Throttling to the same flow rate with a higher pressure head will always result in greater velocity at the inlet.
An analogy might help, here. Let’s say you can achieve 2 gallons per minute (gpm) thru an open garden hose. Put a nozzle on there, and it might achieve 1 gpm. Now, if you could increase pump pressure you can get back to 2 gpm thru that hose nozzle, but it’s going to shoot a lot farther than that open garden hose did at 2 gpm.
Now, point that nozzle at the door gasket, and you’re going to get some leakage, even if the firebox is under net negative pressure. Like all analogies, this isn’t a perfect one, but it demonstrates the point in terms to which everyone can relate.

Agreed, not a perfect analogy. Yes, when you close down the air, the velocity of the air that gets past the flapper is high... but then what happens? It dumps into the duct that goes to the air wash. The duct has a huge cross-sectional area, relative to the cross-sectional area of what is getting through the almost-closed flapper. The duct has to be able deliver a lot of air when the primary is wide open, after all. It's like when you dump a 6" stove outlet into a masonry clay liner that's 11X11", the velocity drops way down. The duct cross-sectional area is undoubtedly larger than the cross-sectional area of the air wash exit at the top of the glass, but I'm pretty sure that the air wash cross-section on your stove is still many times greater that what is open at the flapper. I'll wager that there is no jet of air shooting out of your air wash.
Obviously I don't have a BK but I bet the cross-sections are similar to my stove. I was just looking, and here's what I found;
When I have the air cut to low burn (where BK guys have smoke smell) the cross-section of that primary air opening is about the same as a 1/4-3/8" hole. The air wash plate, however, has a 1/4" gap the entire width of the window plus a series of 1/4" holes in a line, the width of the window. That's a lot of air exiting the air wash, compared to what's getting past my "flapper" which is actually a sliding plate. There is no jet of air shooting out of my air wash.
When conditions are right in my fire box, gentle flame will ignite all along the air wash in a ribbon across the top of the window, extending 2-3" down the glass. These flames just hover there, they don't move in any kind of jet, or pull toward the cat entrance that I can see. If there is only smoke in the box I can shine a flashlight in to see what the smoke is doing. It gets gently rippled by the air wash air and moves down the glass a little ways, no blasting jet of air like in your hose nozzle illustration.
In this pic, you can see my glass gasket through the 1/4" gap at between the air wash plate and the widow, all the way across, and you can see the 1/4" holes across the plate. Point is, the air wash has many times the cross-section of the intake opening, so no jet blast of air is gonna happen there.