2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[bholler]

Exactly. Properly sizing a bk to the application has a great influence on your satisfaction. Plus, well, I'm not expecting much of a conversion here from a diehard noncat fan. The BK would have to be twice as good to be considered just mediocre!

It was 15 at the highbeam house this morning and I threw in an extra three splits of doug fir on my way out the door. Normal 24/7 heating when lows are in the 30s would mean I add no wood on the way out the door, just reload on a 24 hour schedule. Properly sizing the stove is important and I think I'm pretty close here.

Are you saying that the princess rated to heat 1500 to 2500 is to small to heat my average 1977 construction 2200 sqft?

 

[bholler]

And to be clear this is the same house that was heated with a regency 3100 that has pretty much the same firebox size pretty easily. Most of the time i easily got 8 hours of useable heat out of the regency going down to 6 hours on the coldest windy nights. I am now reloading the bk at about 8 hours as well.

 

[Highbeam]

Are you saying that the princess rated to heat 1500 to 2500 is to small to heat my average 1977 construction 2200 sqft?

Nope. I have no idea what your heat load is and square footage is just one factor. I do expect that your load is higher than optimal for the princess.

 

[bholler]

Nope. I have no idea what your heat load is and square footage is just one factor. I do expect that your load is higher than optimal for the princess.

Fair enough.

 

[Diabel]

Gooky flue. I had one too. Get a flue probe thermometer and keep the flue above the temperature that produces it. These stoves can run with the cat active but below the temperature necessary to keep the steam produced in a vapor form. In other words the flue is condensing moisture. Now that is a low burn. Not necessarily wet wood either. The cat makes steam. Crack a window if the house is too warm. Every stove has a minimum firing rate. A LOT less heat is goes up your stack with these BK stoves. Efficiency.

Yes
The key I think is to keep the flue temp at and above 300.
I do that with my VC and have zero black stuff.

On the BK I would set the thermo to 2:00 the cat would be well in the active 2:00 but the flue would drop to below 200 and I think this was messing up my chimney.

This run I have set the t stat at 3:00 and the flue is staying at around 300 (3h into the burn). Even though I had flames in the box for about 1h after I closed the bypass.

 

[lsucet]

@bholler, if i was you i will be installing back the regency. Why to wait? If in the 30s is not performing any different than your regency and actually is giving you less output, why to wait for the worse part of the cold weather arrives. I do love my BKs but if one day they dont do what i want and there is something else that will do it, I tell you what, bye bye BKs. They will go to my collection spot in the back yard or for sale. My house is around 2400sf and really old, in the 30s i just run one of them and as long as during the day the temp climb outside a little i have no problem keeping the house at comfortable temp.
My technique is to load as late as i can before bed, burn hot and dial it down. By morning everything still acceptable. between 72 and 65 the upper level. I just dont do anything, anyway i am going to work. as long the sun shows up during the day i can find the house better that what it was when i left in AM temp wise. In the 20s and teens as have been lately i run both real low.

 

[bholler]

@bholler, if i was you i will be installing back the regency. Why to wait? If in the 30s is not performing any different than your regency and actually is giving you less output, why to wait for the worse part of the cold weather arrives. I do love my BKs but if one day they dont do what i want and there is something else that will do it, I tell you what, bye bye BKs. They will go to my collection spot in the back yard or for sale. My house is around 2400sf and really old, in the 30s i just run one of them and as long as during the day the temp climb outside a little i have no problem keeping the house at comfortable temp.
My technique is to load as late as i can before bed, burn hot and dial it down. By morning everything still acceptable. between 72 and 65 the upper level. I just dont do anything, anyway i am going to work. as long the sun shows up during the day i can find the house better that what it was when i left in AM temp wise. In the 20s and teens as have been lately i run both real low.

Because I want to give the princess a real try for a full season. As i said i dont dislike how it heats i really do like the more even heat its just not magic. I get very similar burn times because i need similar btus.

 

[kf6hap]

Yes
The key I think is to keep the flue temp at and above 300.
I do that with my VC and have zero black stuff.

I like to see 300 too unless it is late in the burn when 250 will do. You might see flames for a while after the "load char" due to the high flue temps sucking more than usual air through the EPA hole in the damper plate. Eventually the box will go black. My flue runs 250-400 except at start-up. Small house.

 

[Diabel]

Just as Begreen stated in a dead of winter the BK is just an ordinary stove that will keep a fire overnight.

 

[webby3650]

Just as Begreen stated in a dead of winter the BK is just an ordinary stove that will keep a fire overnight.

I’ve had plenty of stoves that will keep a fire over night, that’s easy. With my Bk’s I wake up to a warm house, tons of coals and often pieces wood left in the box. Not just a few little sparks left buried in the ash.. That’s not ever been the case with my other stoves.
There have been a few people that aren’t impressed with a BK, on here and ones I’ve met in the field. A few people in hundreds. Hundreds if not thousands of customers. Because a BK doesn’t heat bhollers house, or BEGreen says they are the same as any other stove has no bearing on my experience or the countless thousands of other customers who are continually impressed with the stove. Burn on BK nation!

 

[ratsrepus]

And to be clear this is the same house that was heated with a regency 3100 that has pretty much the same firebox size pretty easily. Most of the time i easily got 8 hours of useable heat out of the regency going down to 6 hours on the coldest windy nights. I am now reloading the bk at about 8 hours as well.

here is what I have after 27 hrs. So Im really have difficulty with what your telling everyone. Your house isnt much bigger than mine, nor is you climate much different.

 

[shoot-straight]

I am Kinda in the same boat as bhollar. I upgraded To an ashford from a hearthstone Phoenix. The Phoenix couldn't keep up or burn long enough maybe 30% of the time. With the ashford, that number is maybe 10-15% now. I burn The same amount of wood that I did with the Phoenix too. It had a 2.2 box I think.

I hardly ever burn the stove much below the 3:00 position. Usually right on it, or just a hair below. I control The heat more with the fans than the stat.

At 3 I get about 12 hrs without the fans. At 3 with the fans on high that goes down to less than 8.

I am Happy with it overall though

 

[Highbeam]

Just as Begreen stated in a dead of winter the BK is just an ordinary stove that will keep a fire overnight.

Don't you think that depends on the heat load and your corresponding thermostat setting? The stove doesn't know what time of year it is. The stove doesn't know or care if your house temperature falls. At high output levels the BK and a tube stove approach similar performance. Maybe that is what you mean?

In my application, the BK loafs along with 12 hour partial reload cycles in single digit winter temperatures. Never needing to use those high output levels where performance begins to look more like a noncat.

 

[Diabel]

I’ve had plenty of stoves that will keep a fire over night, that’s easy. With my Bk’s I wake up to a warm house, tons of coals and often pieces wood left in the box. Not just a few little sparks left buried in the ash.. That’s not ever been the case with my other stoves.
There have been a few people that aren’t impressed with a BK, on here and ones I’ve met in the field. A few people in hundreds. Hundreds if not thousands of customers. Because a BK doesn’t heat bhollers house, or BEGreen says they are the same as any other stove has no bearing on my experience or the countless thousands of other customers who are continually impressed with the stove. Burn on BK nation!

I like spireted replies. I am so new to this stove that I am still on a fence. Love the even heat so far....

 

[Diabel]

Don't you think that depends on the heat load and your corresponding thermostat setting? The stove doesn't know what time of year it is. The stove doesn't know or care if your house temperature falls. At high output levels the BK and a tube stove approach similar performance. Maybe that is what you mean?

In my application, the BK loafs along with 12 hour partial reload cycles in single digit winter temperatures. Never needing to use those high output levels where performance begins to look more like a noncat.

I am starting to think there is something wrong with my unit (I honestly hope not).

HB,

I have an Uber insulated 2200 house (almost passive). The P sits in the lover level 1100. I keep the house at 19*C while I am away. The stove has been on for 5hrs and it raised the lower level temp to 21*C. If it was not for the LG fireplace upstairs I would be freezing. It is not cold outside ( -4*C).

Btw the flue temp just dropped to 200*F. 80% of firebox is full of wood. Cat sitting at 2:00

 

[kf6hap]

I was always of the understanding BKs and air tubers were roughly the same efficiency at high fire. At medium fire and below the BKs certainly are the more efficient. Once the secondary burn drops down below 1,000-F the air tube stoves become smoke dragons.

I can tell you with certainty my air tubers ate a LOT more wood.

Where am I wrong?

 

[Diabel]

For the record.

Please do not get me wrong, I like the Princess very much. But so far, the looks better than the performance.

 

[Highbeam]

I was always of the understanding BKs and air tubers were roughly the same efficiency at high fire. At medium fire and below the BKs certainly are the more efficient. Once the secondary burn drops down below 1,000-F the air tube stoves become smoke dragons.

I can tell you with certainty my air tubers ate a LOT more wood.

Where am I wrong?

That is my experience as well. For whatever reason, the tubers ate much more wood doing the same job. In my case it was an easy 20% reduction in fuel use going from EPA noncat to EPA cat.

Only recently have we been able to see efficiency ratings other than default ratings on stoves so if a non-cat is particularly inefficient then that should be a performance specification we can use to explain it. Unfortunately I don't think we will see an efficiency curve with varying efficiencies for each burn rate.

Heck, we might even discover that some noncats are actually pretty efficient.

 

[Highbeam]

I am starting to think there is something wrong with my unit (I honestly hope not).

HB,

I have an Uber insulated 2200 house (almost passive). The P sits in the lover level 1100. I keep the house at 19*C while I am away. The stove has been on for 5hrs and it raised the lower level temp to 21*C. If it was not for the LG fireplace upstairs I would be freezing. It is not cold outside ( -4*C).

Btw the flue temp just dropped to 200*F. 80% of firebox is full of wood. Cat sitting at 2:00

I'm not a metric guy but it sounds like your lower 1100 SF level is up 5 degrees in 5 hours and your stove is running at a very low burn rate. You are wishing it was making more heat. Why don't you turn up the thermostat? That's what I do when I want more output.

With low btu evergreens that I'm burning, the cat meter is almost always indicating 1300-1500 which is about at the top of the active range. The cat meter stays there just about all the time regardless of thermostat setting. On low output settings my flue probe meter indicates 400 degrees and at medium output it is closer to 600. On high it can pass 900 and I don't like that so I turn it down!

So I have to wonder why your princess is running so cold when you want more heat. Couple that with lower burntimes, lots of smoke, dirty chimney, and I tend to question your fuel quality.

 

[MtnBURN]

For the record i have one burning in my house right now. And it only outperforms my regency in the shoulder season.

Sorry...just got you confused with one of the other nay-sayers. I'm the opposite. Had a Regency insert in my last house and you had to sit in front of it to feel any heat. Granted it was their smallest model...but even so...it was pitiful and wouldn't even keep the forced air gas heater from coming on and the thermostat was just around the corner in the hall. I do know the disappointment and put out feeling you guys are riding on though. I didn't even burn that insert the last 2 years I lived in that house.I'm sure someone thought it was a great insert...but not me.

Proves that each situation is different. I see this with the dome greenhouse I own. Some swear they can make it without heat...we just can;t say that 100% of the time. Same GH. Some of that is certainly expectations. Some folks are happy just keeping temps above freezing..others..like me...actually use my GH for food production year round and demand far more.

As far as our homes...I'm sure we have serious differences in performance because i am not heating the same sq ft as you are and my idea of "warm" may differ from yours. (I'm a 70F and below guy..or windows get opened) The thing is...these stoves work perfectly for the applications I am using them for and that is all that matters here. Again...i get your frustration if your stove isn't filling the bill...but nothing said here (ad nauseum) will fix that.. and the glaring fact of the matter is that there are many, many more here who ARE happy with their stoves... heating far more sq ft than your house. (or not)

And every stove operates differently as well. I have 3 uglies in 3 different buildings with different drafts (one has OAK)...stove pipe lenths/heating needs..and on and on and on. None of them truly run the same way nor are their burn times the same with similar loads.

I love the long burns but i love the clean burns better. We have no regulations here...LOFL...but I can in no way see burning 3 non-cat stoves in a valley this narrow. Thankfully my county barely knows we exist out here on many fronts..including who has a stove and burns it and who doesn't. LOL.

Hope ya figure out WHY things aren't right. Something in the mix sure isn't....

 

[Diabel]

I'm not a metric guy but it sounds like your lower 1100 SF level is up 5 degrees in 5 hours and your stove is running at a very low burn rate. You are wishing it was making more heat. Why don't you turn up the thermostat? That's what I do when I want more output.

With low btu evergreens that I'm burning, the cat meter is almost always indicating 1300-1500 which is about at the top of the active range. The cat meter stays there just about all the time regardless of thermostat setting. On low output settings my flue probe meter indicates 400 degrees and at medium output it is closer to 600. On high it can pass 900 and I don't like that so I turn it down!

So I have to wonder why your princess is running so cold when you want more heat. Couple that with lower burntimes, lots of smoke, dirty chimney, and I tend to question your fuel quality.

I honestly appreciate the input. I want to get this working right, I am basically here not long enough to test all the recommendations. I will be here for a week around the holidays and hopefully get this thing dialed in correctly.

HB,

I suppose I could just open the t stat and let it rip but will I have anything in the firebox in the morning....

 

[bholler]

here is what I have after 27 hrs. So Im really have difficulty with what your telling everyone. Your house isnt much bigger than mine, nor is you climate much different.

And honestly I could not care less if you believe me or not.

 

[bholler]

Sorry...just got you confused with one of the other nay-sayers. I'm the opposite. Had a Regency insert in my last house and you had to sit in front of it to feel any heat. Granted it was their smallest model...but even so...it was pitiful and wouldn't even keep the forced air gas heater from coming on and the thermostat was just around the corner in the hall. I do know the disappointment and put out feeling you guys are riding on though. I didn't even burn that insert the last 2 years I lived in that house.I'm sure someone thought it was a great insert...but not me.

Proves that each situation is different. I see this with the dome greenhouse I own. Some swear they can make it without heat...we just can;t say that 100% of the time. Same GH. Some of that is certainly expectations. Some folks are happy just keeping temps above freezing..others..like me...actually use my GH for food production year round and demand far more.

As far as our homes...I'm sure we have serious differences in performance because i am not heating the same sq ft as you are and my idea of "warm" may differ from yours. (I'm a 70F and below guy..or windows get opened) The thing is...these stoves work perfectly for the applications I am using them for and that is all that matters here. Again...i get your frustration if your stove isn't filling the bill...but nothing said here (ad nauseum) will fix that.. and the glaring fact of the matter is that there are many, many more here who ARE happy with their stoves... heating far more sq ft than your house. (or not)

And every stove operates differently as well. I have 3 uglies in 3 different buildings with different drafts (one has OAK)...stove pipe lenths/heating needs..and on and on and on. None of them truly run the same way nor are their burn times the same with similar loads.

I love the long burns but i love the clean burns better. We have no regulations here...LOFL...but I can in no way see burning 3 non-cat stoves in a valley this narrow. Thankfully my county barely knows we exist out here on many fronts..including who has a stove and burns it and who doesn't. LOL.

Hope ya figure out WHY things aren't right. Something in the mix sure isn't....

Did you have an insulated block off plate above your insert? Did you have insulation behind it?

As far as clean burns I saw smoke less often and less buildup from the regency.

I am not sure why you think things aren't right. I had a similarly sized stove with the exact same setup. What makes you think the bk could put out the same BTUs over that much longer with the same amount of wood?

 

[Highbeam]

I honestly appreciate the input. I want to get this working right, I am basically here not long enough to test all the recommendations. I will be here for a week around the holidays and hopefully get this thing dialed in correctly.

HB,

I suppose I could just open the t stat and let it rip but will I have anything in the firebox in the morning....

There is a whole lot of thermostat range in between where you're at and "let it rip". When you arrive to a cold house and want to warm it up that is a good time for higher settings. After your house is up to temperature you can begin to lower the stat looking for the setting that keeps you warm.

Is that 200 flue temperature internal or on the surface of single wall? Some people can go that low with internal temperatures but I do not recommend it. If it's skin temperature then you are at the lowest thermostat setting that I would ever recommend.

Burn the fuel. You are cold. If the firebox is consumed in the morning then load her up and repeat.

 

[BKVP]

Thermal degradation and thermal shock both terms the manufacturers and EPA use to define combustor failure. In the past 20 years, Corning, Sud Chemie, Clariant and Applied Ceramics have stated, air leaks can cause thermal shock and lead to combustor failure. Wood stove geeks freely say "maintenance is necessary to avoid thermal shock to essential elements necessary for clean and efficient combustion.