2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[lsucet]

Yes, I was at a crossroads of deciding where I put my energy. I hesitated because posting pics would present tape... something you never do, but I felt would draw ire. Lame reason? Not really. Tho ripping it all off and posting pics, sure. Could do.

Or where do I put my energy going forward. A more definitive crossroads was having my wife pop her head in the room at 5am this morning, worrying about my constant tending. I cannot keep doing this to her, or me, so as someone else said.. I don't have the patience any more. Correct.. I don't. But I appreciate the squeaky wheel responses to it keeps me considering for one more day while we have moderate temps. I know there is a solution somewhere, but... let me answer another post that the poster postulated and drills down to where I am.

I do understand and should be frustrated for you. I think you already explained the reasons of the tape and we all know why. As soon you can provide that information, the quickest a solution can be available. Just give it one more try. Of course at the end of the day we all have to do what we have to do. If you old stove perform better for your setup that is great. BK are good stoves, try to handle the issue with BKVP. He is willing to help as always.

 

[webby3650]

The stove isn’t cracked.. maybe a bad weld though. It’s possible.

You mentioned running the HVAC air handler to distribute heat. This can cause a flue reversal pulling smoke from the stove. In some instances it can pull smoke in windows of outlying rooms too. Perhaps this is the cause of the smell?

 

[drhiii]

I do understand and should be frustrated for you. I think you already explained the reasons of the tape and we all know why. As soon you can provide that information, the quickest a solution can be available. Just give it one more try. Of course at the end of the day we all have to do what we have to do. If you old stove perform better for your setup that is great. BK are good stoves, try to handle the issue with BKVP. He is willing to help as always.

Am giving one more go at solution. Tx to responses here. Will comm with BKVP. There is a reason for that hesitation as well.. prefer to not add that to the mix publicly.

See you are around San Ysidro. Have photographed extensively north of your area. Tx for your response.

 

[webby3650]

Tx for reply. After a sleepless night wrestling with it again, am on the cusp of yanking it out and putting prior stove back in. If I keep it in place a little longer, will generate pics yes, and I appreciate offer.

As a sidenote and likely moot, there have been 3 prior stoves installed in this location. None of these problems existed with these 3 stoves. I wonder if I am not getting enough draw, but my chimney extends 27'. Yet I cannot open the BKP door for 5 seconds without getting smoke smell into the rooms. God forbid I keep it open for 15-20 seconds. Each time I open the BKP door regardless of the time, I disengage the cat of course, open up 100% air flow, crack the door for at east 5 mins to reinitiate air flow up the flue, and unless I have a significant fire going, I get back puffing. Essentially I have to run the forced air to clear the smoke scent out of the rooms every time I open the door. Never happened on prior stoves where I could leave the doors open to load or service and never had this happen. And may as well add, I learned the hard way on burning silver maple, seasoned for 2 years and 5-11% moisture, for the first few burns. Only because I have a stash of it and it was primo in prior stove. The amount of creosote was really significant. Had to clean the flue and box after 10 days. So went to pinon pine which is excellent high BTU low ash wood. 4-10% moisture content, seasoned for minimum of a year to 2 years. On a full load, I might get 10-12-maybe 14 hours. The cat glows like a new cat as it should. So that is working no prob. I never expected to get near 30, but this has also been another in the things that are causing this acquisition to be more maintenance than my prior fire breathing dragon stove. But at this point am spending much more time on the BKP than prior stove, and the emitting smoke scent into the rooms... can't keep this up.

Again, pardon the venting. Had another sleepless night tending this thing and not looking forward to swapping out stoves which if I do, will just bow out and stop whining. I appreciate the response. Will decide whether to keep at this or switch out and be quiet.

Unless you live in the desert it’s really really hard to get wood down to 4%. This is a room temperature piece that was split just before testing on the face of the split? Sorry but 4% wood doesn’t cause a messy flue in just 10 days if the stove is being operated properly. I haven’t followed this thread too closely, any chance the cap is clogged? Or possibly too restrictive?

 

[drhiii]

Something real bad is wrong here. Jammed thermostat, stuck/broken bypass, defective cat, bird nest in flue stack/clogged cap. I do understand your frustration and one reaches the point of action. Smoke in the house is intolerable.

Just one question: Has the catalyst ever glowed red? My reckoning points to this as being the culprit. Since it was a Demo unit, it might have been poisoned or defective from the factory, thus all the creosote and smoke in the house issues. If it is nonfunctional it would be a bad restriction in the airflow causing the house smoke.

Tx for your response. Has the catalyst ever glowed red? All the time. Takes 10-20 minutes to bring it up to temp and once engaged, the cat glows bright red. No problem there.

I did go to your speculation about since it was a demo unit, what happened prior? Having run stoves for many years, and installed several from mine to others, ran through an extensive checklist. Incl check, recheck, re-re-recheck of flue and chimney. Thorough cleaning twice in the last 45 days.

Won't repeat everything on checklist, but am looking at why is this exhaust smoke smell coming from the air vent? Last thing I care to project is defective, but short of tearing everything out above and below the stove, and have done this above portion several times... summations are pretty narrow now.

tx for your reply.

 

[SuperJ]

Am giving one more go at solution. Tx to responses here. Will comm with BKVP. There is a reason for that hesitation as well.. prefer to not add that to the mix publicly.

See you are around San Ysidro. Have photographed extensively north of your area. Tx for your response.

Maybe a mouse nest in the intake or convection area? Maybe blast out the connection deck with an air compressor?
Maybe your cat is shot?
Have you tried running with a window open ( this would help to eliminate house pressure problems as cause . )
It's a top knotch stove, so it's worth the effort to figure things out.

Door, cat and bypass gaskets all good?

 

[jetsam]

Tx for your response. Has the catalyst ever glowed red? All the time. Takes 10-20 minutes to bring it up to temp and once engaged, the cat glows bright red. No problem there.

I did go to your speculation about since it was a demo unit, what happened prior? Having run stoves for many years, and installed several from mine to others, ran through an extensive checklist. Incl check, recheck, re-re-recheck of flue and chimney. Thorough cleaning twice in the last 45 days.

Won't repeat everything on checklist, but am looking at why is this exhaust smoke smell coming from the air vent? Last thing I care to project is defective, but short of tearing everything out above and below the stove, and have done this above portion several times... summations are pretty narrow now.

tx for your reply.

If your flue is not obstructed, something in the stove must be, unless you have draft reversal.

If I drilled a hole in a properly operating princess, it'd become a new air intake, not an exhaust hole, so the cracked stove theory doesn't make sense for me.

Some pictures of the install could help.

 

[drhiii]

Maybe a mouse nest in the intake or convection area? Maybe blast out the connection deck with an air compressor?
Maybe your cat is shot?
Have you tried running with a window open ( this would help to eliminate house pressure problems as cause . )
It's a top knotch stove, so it's worth the effort to figure things out.

Door, cat and bypass gaskets all good?

I appreciate your response.

Convection area pristine. No flow issues. Cat is running 100%. I can bring it up to the beautiful glow in 10, 15, 20 minutes. Was initially concerned with the integrity of the cat but no... it is A-ok fine.

Door, cat, bypass... all appear to be A-ok. Have studied the characteristics of this stove and repeated tests of all these, plus stove pipe up to the cap... all check out. The only thing I have not retooled at least once in this process is the OAK. Everything else has had multiples of rebuilds and tests.

I know BK is top notch. Which is why after a myriad of things to solve this, it is frustrating.

I needed to respond as I appreciate your reply and feel obligated to your post. But have decided to remove the stove as this has gone way too far. So we can stop. I will stop... unless any further ideas come forward in which case I will reply. We all need to move on. Stove is coming out....

 

[drhiii]

If your flue is not obstructed, something in the stove must be, unless you have draft reversal.

If I drilled a hole in a properly operating princess, it'd become a new air intake, not an exhaust hole, so the cracked stove theory doesn't make sense for me.

Some pictures of the install could help.

Thank you for your response. I agree. It makes zero sense that a crack would present this way. But after a myriad of tests, advice, experience, blah blah blah...

 

[drhiii]

If your flue is not obstructed, something in the stove must be, unless you have draft reversal.

If I drilled a hole in a properly operating princess, it'd become a new air intake, not an exhaust hole, so the cracked stove theory doesn't make sense for me.

Some pictures of the install could help.

Thank you for your response. I agree. It makes zero sense that a crack would present this way. But after a myriad of tests, advice, experience.. I cannot explain why I have isolated the exhaust smoke smell comes from the left vent. Precisely, the left vent. I taped over it and the problem stopped. Removed tape and it returned. I have done so many tests and... well.. I am replying to your post as I appreciate the time you have taken. But I have decided to stop this and remove the stove. I do not need to keep beating this poor horse farther into the ground. Its coming out. Tx for your reply.

 

[kennyp2339]

Thank you for your response. I agree. It makes zero sense that a crack would present this way. But after a myriad of tests, advice, experience.. I cannot explain why I have isolated the exhaust smoke smell comes from the left vent. Precisely, the left vent. I taped over it and the problem stopped. Removed tape and it returned. I have done so many tests and... well.. I am replying to your post as I appreciate the time you have taken. But I have decided to stop this and remove the stove. I do not need to keep beating this poor horse farther into the ground. Its coming out. Tx for your reply.

Im at a loss here, you may want your draft tested since its what drives the stove, I suspect an over draft issue while to stove is running at higher settings (30ft of flue @ 6,500ft elevation) other than that it would be wood supply issues but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
There was a thread a long while back from a gentleman that bought a BK, he built a class a chimney, everything looked good to go, the stove though never worked as advertised for him, even BK's @BKVP went to help the guy, after testing the unit BK took the stove back, it wasn't the stove, it wasn't the wood, it was the unavoidable setup / location causing a variety of issues. If anyone can help me remember the thread, I think it was 2014-2015 area, guy had a yellow house I think.

 

[webby3650]

drhill. How about posting a few pictures of your chimney set up? How are you testing your wood to come up with 4% MC? You’ve mentioned using your HVAC air handler not only to distribute heat, but also to clear the room of the smoke smell. I really feel that this could be causing the smoke smell. Once you turn the stove down, draft is greatly reduced, allowing the air handler to draw smoke and smell from the stove.

 

[Boxer]

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Im at a loss here, you may want your draft tested since its what drives the stove, I suspect an over draft issue while to stove is running at higher settings (30ft of flue @ 6,500ft elevation) other than that it would be wood supply issues but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
There was a thread a long while back from a gentleman that bought a BK, he built a class a chimney, everything looked good to go, the stove though never worked as advertised for him, even BK's @BKVP went to help the guy, after testing the unit BK took the stove back, it wasn't the stove, it wasn't the wood, it was the unavoidable setup / location causing a variety of issues. If anyone can help me remember the thread, I think it was 2014-2015 area, guy had a yellow house I think.

Was it Parallax?

 

[dh1989]

How does everyone handle reloads on a bed of coals to minimize smoke? When I do a cold start, I light kindling top down directly under the cat and get quick light off with minimal smoke. On a coal bed reload, the new load ignites from the bottom and takes a while to heat the cat. In the meantime I have thick gray smoke out the stack rolling across the neighborhood. This can last a good 20-30 min and I’ve had someone call the fire department once so far. I suppose I could use a fire starter every single time under the cat but I was hoping for a better way.

 

[kennyp2339]

How does everyone handle reloads on a bed of coals to minimize smoke? When I do a cold start, I light kindling top down directly under the cat and get quick light off with minimal smoke. On a coal bed reload, the new load ignites from the bottom and takes a while to heat the cat. In the meantime I have thick gray smoke out the stack rolling across the neighborhood. This can last a good 20-30 min and I’ve had someone call the fire department once so far. I suppose I could use a fire starter every single time under the cat but I was hoping for a better way.

It seems as though some people forget how smoky wood stoves use to be, especially since most new stoves burn without smoke coming from the stack 85% of the time. What I like to do is, I turn the t-stat all the way up, I let the coals inside get red hot, I then put on a pair of welding gloves and using a small garden rake I rake the coals forward and push back the ash to the rear of the box, this usually creates a coal bed up front that has mini flames coming off of it, I then reload using a few smaller splits n&s next to each other then larger splits to fill the rest of the box also going n&s. I close the door engage the by-pass but let the load run at high for 10-15 min depending on the amount of flames coming off the load. This keeps the smoke relatively short in session, no more than a person that is lighting an open fireplace.

 

[lsucet]

How does everyone handle reloads on a bed of coals to minimize smoke? When I do a cold start, I light kindling top down directly under the cat and get quick light off with minimal smoke. On a coal bed reload, the new load ignites from the bottom and takes a while to heat the cat. In the meantime I have thick gray smoke out the stack rolling across the neighborhood. This can last a good 20-30 min and I’ve had someone call the fire department once so far. I suppose I could use a fire starter every single time under the cat but I was hoping for a better way.

Rake the coals to the front as much you can. That way the fire starts on front minimizing the smoke some and the wood will burn like a cigar.

 

[Ryan723]

How does everyone handle reloads on a bed of coals to minimize smoke?

In addition to what others have said above about getting the coalbed hot and to the front of the stove, I also lay a really dry thin scrap split diagonally across the face of the N-S loaded bigger splits. This catches early and really heats and feeds the cat as the rest of the load gets going and really reduces smoke for me.

Doing this, I can usually engage the cat within a few minutes of a hot re-load and be virtually smoke free at the stack pretty quickly.

 

[Highbeam]

How does everyone handle reloads on a bed of coals to minimize smoke? When I do a cold start, I light kindling top down directly under the cat and get quick light off with minimal smoke. On a coal bed reload, the new load ignites from the bottom and takes a while to heat the cat. In the meantime I have thick gray smoke out the stack rolling across the neighborhood. This can last a good 20-30 min and I’ve had someone call the fire department once so far. I suppose I could use a fire starter every single time under the cat but I was hoping for a better way.

I start cold fires from the bottom up and the bk smokes like a freight train! Not so with my noncat.

 

[MissMac]

Someone correct me if i’m wrong, but doesn’t the cat glow based on temp? So for example, how does my cat glow when i first close the bypass on a cold start when the needle is just above inactive, but not glow when the needle is over 2/3 up in the active range (like pointing at 2 o’clock)? This doesn’t seem to make sense to me?

 

[kennyp2339]

Fresh smoke that it’s eating makes it hotter, versus the primary fire heating it

 

[lsucet]

I think it still getting hot during the burn when tstat opens. Just the wood is not outgassing much of the chemical that makes the cat lights off. But the probe is still telling you that the cat is hot. I can see the cat thru the first 5 to 6 hrs of the burn, getting real upset/mad like a night light once awhile. The cat still doing its thing regardless if is light up or not as long is into the active zone.

 

[kf6hap]

Someone correct me if i’m wrong, but doesn’t the cat glow based on temp? So for example, how does my cat glow when i first close the bypass on a cold start when the needle is just above inactive, but not glow when the needle is over 2/3 up in the active range (like pointing at 2 o’clock)? This doesn’t seem to make sense to me?

Yes the cat will glow if it is over ~1,200. The cat thermometer has "thermal lag" so, if the cat just became 1,000F due the the bypass being rolled shut, it may take 5 minutes for it to heat up and indicate "Active".

Later on in the burn the cat indicator may be indicating higher than earlier in the burn when it was glowing red due to the wood producing different catalytically burnable particles and gasses that involve more of the catalytic surface (deep in) than just the entrance surface. This is my guess as to the occurrence of the not red but reading higher phenomenon.

 

[Highbeam]

The lag on the cat meter works both ways. Really, just know it is not broken if it’s not glowing. Keep the meter in the active zone and enjoy a beverage.

 

[Tar12]

My 12’ flue met the spec in the manual when I installed it. I don’t have any problems that I know of other than smoke rollout if I open the door without praying enough.

It’s running great and I consume catalysts at the expected rate in my opinion. When I’ve gone too long on a dead cat I’ve noticed the symptoms that I described above. That’s only when the cat is ready for replacement.
Like an air filter on your truck, you want to replace the stove cat before it fails!

I am barely running 13 ft and only get smoke roll out on warmer days and its very little at that. From November on I am rolling 24/7...no roll out from this point on..our coldest air of the season rolls in the beginning of the week with lows in the teens and daytime highs of 25-29...I am anxiously awaiting this! lol Why you might ask? I just dropped some serious coin on upgrades for my house...on the outside it was stripped to the studs...I was shocked to find a thin cardboard material on the walls! There was regular wall insulation behind this...but this place must of been bleeding heat through these walls! After numerous window and door frame repairs we fixed this by installing owens corning foamular wall insulation board and taping all joints and installing Typar house wrap and all new double pane low-e windows and doors and flashed them properly...we are currently 60% done with new siding and I have noticed a big difference in this place already..the drafts are GONE! lol AND I find myself cranking the stove down more and more! Loving it!