2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[jetsam]

Snickers...looks around...counts 1, 2, 3....

And all of 'em are those incredibly "ugly" Princesses!

Ashful has Ashfords.

I keep trying to influence him into putting a stove into every fireplace in his house, but I haven't had much luck so far.

Ashful, if you installed Kings in all your fireplaces, you'd only have to load once a week...

 

[kf6hap]

So, I have a new use for the outside air kit. It keeps the horrid thick smoke from the wildfires here in California out of the house. How very nice.

 

[handsplitter]

Thank you very much guys for the help. I love the site and I need to spend more time on it.
re https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/prolonging-catalyst-lifespan.170785/#post-2290743
that above link / thread got locked and I was asked to post here on this BK18-19 thread in hopes of you guys replying


Sorry for responding so late after my initial reply and after your replies.
So resuming the catalyst discussion:

"…when it’s depleted, which will take several years, then replace it and get on with your life. This is not something even worth considering, when comparing to the potential down-sides of running with a combustor bypassed…"
Again, that is exactly what I wanted to know and kind of what I thought. If my questions seem strange the following is why I am asking. I got the stove brand-new with the new catalyst that I did not have to install and did absolutely nothing with the catalyst for probably 15 years. Then I had to get a new catalyst that I installed, and then it needed cleaning every 3-4 years, also I noticed that it was cracked but still functioning satisfactorily. But I have to assume that I cracked it either during the installation which was quite difficult (but I have figured out a way to do it very gently now using a car jack). So I am on my third catalyst and I just would like to not screw this one up. It's just hard for me to believe that I went 15 years with my first one, and I cannot even make it 4 years ever since.

Re the engineer comment, I'm not an engineer, but I know what you mean, and no offense taken.

"Second, to achieve the best life of your catalyst, always burn wood at optimal moisture." I'm careful not to burn un-seasoned wood, it's a great hobby of mine so I get it right. But along these lines, I recently heard "when you reload a hot stove, of course the temperature is going to fall out of catalyst range so you want to get the fire roaring for a good 5-10 minutes until you get back in range and this also has the benefit of removing plenty of moisture from the wood just loaded". That seems reasonable to me, is that what you guys do? Obviously if you do not get out of range after loading the stove with new wood then you don't have to, or , do you indeed like to not engage the catalyst to allow "moisture to exit the wood for 5-10 minutes"?

"I, for one, enjoy thinking about the many aspects of stove operation. Some will call it over-thinking..I guess they have other stuff they'd rather think about." Ditto , I like my woodstove a lot, it's a great hobby for me, splitting wood and everything, I was too busy to give it much thought early on, but now it is a hobby.
"… burning fungus, 'shrooms etc. might only "mask" the cat, and it could be remedied with a simmer in distilled water/distilled vinegar and a couple rinses…" In my situation, the odds of me destroying/cracking the catalyst trying to remove it in order to soak it are not good, the only thing I ever attempt to do to "clean" the catalyst is gently blow it clean of loose debris. Unless you guys have a suggestion that I can just pour vinegar on the catalyst wrapped in its insulation both of which sit inside a metal housing? Is that okay or best to keep vinegar off the metal, it needs to soak, right, not just get rinsed? No way I could remove the catalyst from its metal housing and not crack it. But I'll pour vinegar on and let it sit a while and rinse everything off with water if you guys okay it. Again don't want to over-think and not worth the time and trouble, but if I have to have the catalyst out to air-blow clean it, throw in some cheap vinegar + water wash no big deal, but my guess is no, just gently blow & vacuum it as clean as acheivable.

" It's referred to as masking and deposits on top of the precious metals decreases exposure to gases in wood combustion.". The first time I only got 3-4 years out of a brand-new catalyst I just did not understand how it could get that dusty when obviously the first catalyst that came with the stove did not for 15 years? I had to believe that I failed to snug up the metal housing or something, so with my next catalyst insertion I was double sure to snug up the metal housing, still I only got 3-4 years, hence all my questions.

"How long does a cat last usually > Around 10,000 hours."
10,000 hours catalyst life
24 ÷ hours per day burning
--------------------------
417 days =

30 ÷ days per mo
--------------------------
14 months =

4 ÷ Nov Dec Jan Feb is my 24 hour burn season
--------------------------
= 3.5 burn seasons .
So my recent history of only getting 3-4 years before I have to clean the thing is actually okay? I guess what threw me was that I got 15 years out of the first one and did absolutely nothing to it, never removed it to clean it or anything, nothing! Actually I'm getting longer than 3 years because I just have to air-blow clean it (not replace it) every 3-4 years. I have been REPLACING my catalyst every 10 years. Sound about right? You guys that have a 4-month-burn-season & have fires 24/7 get about 3-4 years or do you go longer because you can clean it? Part of my misunderstanding may be when I am assuming 4 months of "24/7 catalyst-engaged-burning" that really the catalyst is not "engaged/being consumed" because there is not smoke 24/7? When you have no more smoke and only coals left but the temperature IS in range, is the catalyst still being "used up/depleted"? Doesn't matter, I will know when to replace it or clean it, just trying to learn.

"How long do they last? The fact is all wood stoves decrease in their ability to burn as clean as new after many years of use. That is why most elements of clean burning design are replaceable. Catalysts, baffle plates, tubes, ceramic blankets, refractory panels, gaskets etc. It's up to the user to maintain their stove over time. This forum is great in helping wood stove users realizing that need.". Thank you that is very helpful to know ! Aside from the catalyst and door gaskets, I don't even know what those other things are, more learning for me. I kind of felt that perhaps something about my woodstove has made it less efficient (aside from chalking it up to my poor catalyst insertion where I probably cracked the catalyst, maybe failed to snug the catalyst's metal housing up so it got more dirty, maybe used some poor wood).
"…However the OEM supplier has recognized at least one manufacturer design and offered a 10 year warranty against failure. Not diminished ability, but failure (thermal shock/destruction)…"
Okay, maybe that is what happened with my second catalyst, maybe it was not me, I'm getting ready to install my third catalyst and I will do it without banging it for sure. I did want to ask that I assume banging the catalyst's metal housing with a piece of firewood while loading the stove could certainly crack the catalyst? Also, are catalysts more prone to fracture from hitting the metal housing with firewood when hot? Porcelains more fragile when hot, right? You know, that very well could be something else I did on my second catalyst?

"…. essentially eliminating the ability for the combustor to convert gases to energy and therefore not burn cleanly. This is what happens to cats in stoves that do protect against excessive drafting or over firing.''' What is excessive drafting? And "over firing" is over 1600F?

Thank you, all comments appreciated

 

[kf6hap]

What is excessive drafting?

The BKs thermostat won't permit excessive draft otherwise known as overfire. The thermostat governs the draft, not a simple manual damper.

As for ceramic cat life, thermal shock from opening the loading door and inserting wet wood are big problems. Leaky door gaskets are a problem too but easily addressed. The steel cat is immune to thermal shock.

The savings in wood far exceeds the cost of a cat.

Early cat stoves had many many problems but the BKs have them all addressed.

 

[bholler]

The BKs thermostat won't permit excessive draft otherwise known as overfire. The thermostat governs the draft, not a simple manual damper.

As for ceramic cat life, thermal shock from opening the loading door and inserting wet wood are big problems. Leaky door gaskets are a problem too but easily addressed. The steel cat is immune to thermal shock.

The savings in wood far exceeds the cost of a cat.

Early cat stoves had many many problems but the BKs have them all addressed.

There have been many here who have reported problems caused by excessive draft. And bk specifies a draft range for a reason.

 

[webby3650]

There have been many here who have reported problems caused by excessive draft. And bk specifies a draft range for a reason.

Excessive draft that causes reduced burn times, but not an overfire situation.

 

[bholler]

Excessive draft that causes reduced burn times, but not an overfire situation.

Yes as long as everything is working right.

 

[Ashful]

Excessive draft that causes reduced burn times, but not an overfire situation.

I am one of those with excessive draft, on one of my two Ashford 30's, roughly 3x the maximum allowable in their manual. I was measuring 0.18" WC, when BK's optimum target is 0.05", an their maximum allowable is 0.06". As you indicate, there were no issues with overfire, and I could even run the stove all day at maximum setting without any issues. My only problem was that I was clogging steelcats when I'd run that high. I've since switched that stove to a ceramic cat, and have also added a key damper and manometer to control draft, so those issues have been resolved... doubly.

 

[Highbeam]

I am one of those with excessive draft, one one of my two Ashford 30's, roughly 3x the maximum allowable in their manual. I was measuring 0.18" WC, when BK's optimum target is 0.05", an their maximum allowable is 0.06". As you indicate, there were no issues with overfire, and I could even run the stove all day at maximum setting without any issues. My only problem was that I was clogging steelcats when I'd run that high. I've since switched that stove to a ceramic cat, and have also added a key damper and manometer to control draft, so those issues have been resolved... doubly.

So... the ceramic cat from the princess fits right in?

 

[Ashful]

So... the ceramic cat from the princess fits right in?

I don’t know about that, but there are ceramic cats for the BK 30’s, from at least one combustor seller.

 

[SuperJ]

I burn low almost all the time, and my short burn on high isn't enough to burn the creosote off the instead of the firebox.

Should I ignore it, or load it up with kindling and try and get the steel hot enough to self clean? Looks like my firebrick is almost welded to the box with the creosote. I should be clear my chimney seems fines, the cat does a good job cleaning it up on the outlet. I remember @Ashful said his chimney sweep was trying to chip it off last year on one of his stoves.

 

[Highbeam]

I don’t know about that, but there are ceramic cats for the BK 30’s, from at least one combustor seller.

Curious if it’s the same part number. I thought bkvp said that the new boxes were only tested with steel cats and that you could only replace emissions equipment with the same as it was tested with. So not ceramic.

 

[SuperJ]

Curious if it’s the same part number. I thought bkvp said that the new boxes were only tested with steel cats and that you could only replace emissions equipment with the same as it was tested with. So not ceramic.

It might be semantics, but I think BKVP said, that as a manufacturer they couldn't make substitutions. I suspect 3rd party resellers, and home owners may not be bound by such restrictions.
IMHO, running any sort of cat in any blaze king probably makes you cleaner than 99% of the stoves out there.

On that note, I had a look at the test for the newer 30.2, and noticed that they qualified two separate catalysts, not sure if they were both metal, or if was a metal and ceramic.

(broken link removed to http://blazeking.com/TestReports/)
(broken link removed to http://blazeking.com/TestReports/30.2%20AF_CK_SC%200142WS014E%20-%20Non-CBI%20Report%20-%2011.7.17.pdf)

 

[Chip Wood]

seems to be run on certain BK models at the moment. i put a deposit on a King 2 weeks ago and when i checked in with the dealer they said the factory couldn't fill the order 'til December. if you're in a hurry for a stove, you might want to check on availability.

 

[lsucet]

Ok this is an observation based on test performed with OAK on and off. I have one of my stoves without OAK and planning to install one soon. The other always has OAK from day one.
I noticed that the one without it, including I don't fill it to the grill, at the 24 hrs mark has more amount of coals for reloads. With less wood and taller stack.
Now that outside temps have been between 14 to 22 degrees during the night I have been testing the stove with oak and without it.
RESULTS: with oak disconnected, way more wood left in there at same amount of burn hrs and similar outside temps. I have been checking at 8hrs mark after dial it to low and at 24 hrs.
When I will still using the oak for sure and keep my plan of installing one on the other stove, the cold air from outside affect the tstat big time. Cause higher wood consumption. I have been noticing a good different on the amount of wood left at the 8hrs mark.

 

[Ashful]

Curious if it’s the same part number. I thought bkvp said that the new boxes were only tested with steel cats and that you could only replace emissions equipment with the same as it was tested with. So not ceramic.

@SuperJ nailed it. BK can’t suggest, endorse, or sell a catalyst different from the one with which the stove was certified, but we can do whatever the hell we want with it, as end users.

 

[Highbeam]

@SuperJ nailed it. BK can’t suggest, endorse, or sell a catalyst different from the one with which the stove was certified, but we can do whatever the hell we want with it, as end users.

I’m all for testing but like your car, you can’t modify an emissions device legally. Federal offense and all that. Public forum here.

A guy like me might be more willing to buy a 30 box if I thought the ceramic cat from a princess would fit. Legally or not. I think they’re the same dimensions and maybe bk will test for both types.

 

[sprawlnstall]

Having about 6 months of burning in on My new Princess I felt I had a good feel on where to set the dial for a nice long burn while keeping the stove in the active zone. Last night i turned the dial down very low and noticed there were still flames. So i turned the dial down so it was just barely on. In the past turning the stove down this low would not keep the stove in the active zone. My fuel source has not changed. Any idea what could cause this minor change. Is there a break in period on the Cat?

 

[SuperJ]

I’m all for testing but like your car, you can’t modify an emissions device legally. Federal offense and all that. Public forum here.

A guy like me might be more willing to buy a 30 box if I thought the ceramic cat from a princess would fit. Legally or not. I think they’re the same dimensions and maybe bk will test for both types.

I'd have to say I disagree... while you can't remove, you can replace. I wouldn't call replacing the cat with a ceramic one a modification, just a aftermarket option. Similar to a vehicle, GM can't put whatever catalytic converter they want on a car since they certified it with a specific one to exact standards. Same goes with spark plugs, O2 sensors, EGR, PCV valves etc. Those parts aren't certified for individual vehicles, but are consider to be ok as long as they are present. Putting NGK plugs in, instead of OEM Denso isn't considered a modification, just maintenance. As soon as the vehicle is sold, it doesn't have to meet the tight new vehicle certification standards, but is expected to operate within an acceptable range as it ages. I can/have legally put any number of different aftermarket cats on my cars, even though they may never have been tested for my application. When I take my car in for smog testing they just make sure it's there and that my CEL is off. If the cat was bad, the CEL would like up.

There are different levels of testing and compliance. The strictest of which is a manufacture certifying a stove. Consumer compliance is much looser, more along the lines of did you remove the cat or not, instead of what's the part number of your cat?

Honestly, I wouldn't go through life fretting about things like the makeup of my cat, it's kinda like worrying about driving with 2-3mph of the speed limit. Who cares? There are bigger injustices in the world than having options for your cat.

 

[jetsam]

I've used both in my stove, and they both worked fine. I liked the steel better, but not tremendously better.

 

[jetsam]

Having about 6 months of burning in on My new Princess I felt I had a good feel on where to set the dial for a nice long burn while keeping the stove in the active zone. Last night i turned the dial down very low and noticed there were still flames. So i turned the dial down so it was just barely on. In the past turning the stove down this low would not keep the stove in the active zone. My fuel source has not changed. Any idea what could cause this minor change. Is there a break in period on the Cat?

Very common new user error. Set the dial where you want it and leave it alone.

If you do that and just sit there and watch the stove for hours, you will see a little flame until it warms up to wherever the dial is set, then it will go out when the damper closes. When it cools off enough, you might get some flame again.

You were just seeing flame because the thermostat was calling for more heat, not because something changed in the stove.

And yes, cats do degrade slowly over time. They can also degrade very rapidly if they get melted or poisoned, or suffer mechanical damage.

 

[AlbergSteve]

seems to be run on certain BK models at the moment. i put a deposit on a King 2 weeks ago and when i checked in with the dealer they said the factory couldn't fill the order 'til December. if you're in a hurry for a stove, you might want to check on availability.

I went through the same thing in September of 2017. Couldn't find one on the Island, found one 12 hours away. PE didn't have anything in stock either, or have any time line when they might have something on showroom floor.

 

[pjohnson]

seems to be run on certain BK models at the moment. i put a deposit on a King 2 weeks ago and when i checked in with the dealer they said the factory couldn't fill the order 'til December. if you're in a hurry for a stove, you might want to check on availability.

I've called or emailed every dealer within 200 miles of me for a King couldn't even find one to look at. I was going to drive 100 miles to look at a princess and place an order tomorrow. When I find an email in my trash and a dealer 50 miles away has what I want. I jumped on it and trying to make arrangements to pick it up in the morning. Now I have no idea yet how I'm going to get it in the house but one step at a time I guess.

 

[BKVP]

Cover of new Duluth Trading catalog...no we did not participate in any part of it! Nice fire though...

 

[ratsrepus]

Got some nice secondary flames form the ashford tonight. Wood load (oak) was 9 hrs, never seen this that late in the burn