2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)

[DuaeGuttae]

I think it was the 2015 thread in which the swoosh just would not go away. There were petitions for retrofit stickers with numbers, and for every cry of "it doesn't matter because no two installs are the same", there were four posts asking for factory calibrated burn time stickers.... every "you don't have the same wood as the factory calibration guy" was met with "if I buy a used stove on ebay, will it have numbers?".

Bretheren, let us remember. (Because it makes us need a drink, and that's all good.)

Definitely 2015. I was sick, sick, sick for months. I stayed in bed quite a lot, often too sick even to read. My sister-in-law gave me an iPad to help me pass the time. At some point I pulled up that 2015 Blaze King Performance thread and started reading. I got all the posts coming one after another and just cracked up laughing. My husband came rushing in to make sure there was no emergency, and there I was laughing over the great swoosh debate of 2015. We still speak of it fondly. Thanks, guys!

 

[Woody Stover]

3 year old red oak. It was in my campfire pile, may as well bring it in for the stove.
6:30 pm, heating approximately 2,000 square feet. 30F currently, low of 23.

220 stove top..was that before or after you lit the Oak?

 

[Ashful]

I do think that some form of standardization or reference of the settings is good. Especially for newbies. Every setup is different and stove burns a bit differently, but it's nice to have some reference points on where people are setting their stoves, how long the burns are and how much heat it produces.

Here's the issue, with the numbers on the dial. I have two identical Ashford 30.1's, purchased on the same date. They are both installed in the first floor of my house, but one is on 15 feet of chimney at one end of the house (2 story) and the other is on 30 feet of pipe at the other end of my house (4 story). I run them both with the knob set right around 3:30 o'clock, a setting that gets me consistent 24-hour burns on the shorter chimney, but only 12-hour burns on the taller chimney.

Now, if we had these two installations in separate houses, and were comparing numbers, we'd be arguing over why one stove seems better than the other. This used to happen quite a bit here.

My setup still intrigues me. I think A may do a burn thread and see what experienced people think. My settings simply burn much shorter than others on average from what I have seen.

Describe your operation. What are you burning?

 

[oldbluedeer]

For those fighting the smell issue I have a question. Are you giving the fresh load a chance to get a rather complete char before reducing air? I can get the smell almost anytime by not letting the load get completely with the program before reducing thermostat position. Starting a fresh load works great on a cold start. By the time the fresh load gets fully engulfed the stat gauge and flu temps are still reasonable.
Not as easy on a hot reload (think. really high flu temps in a hurry while trying to engulf the new load). If part of the reload gets going really well its tough to not set the thermo to cruise and walk away. Doing this will give me the smell. Bit of a game. Maybe the stink is primarily in the exterior layer on the splits? Likely moisture or ? Just throwing this out there for consideration. Almost hate to add anything but I can normally get around this issue for the most part with correctly timed thermostat adjustments.

I definitely get the load of wood good and charred before trying to turn the tstat down.

The most effective way that I've found to reduce the smoke smell is to not turn the tstat down low enough for flames to disappear, but of course then I lose the main benefit of having a cat stove, those long extended burn times. At some point, if I am able to turn the tstat up high and no flames appear, that is when I can turn the tstat farther down for an extended burn with not so much smoke smell, but that is several hours into the burn, depending upon wood variety. With the 2.0 firebox, that means not much fuel is left for an extended burn.

The other way is to just burn it hot until there are no flames, and then turn the tstat down on the coals. It's a simpler way to go, don't have to wait so long before turning down the tstat, but the overall burn time is short.

How long have you had your 2.0? If you don't mind me asking, what square footage are you trying to heat?

 

[Woody Stover]

For those fighting the smell issue I have a question. Are you giving the fresh load a chance to get a rather complete char before reducing air? I can get the smell almost anytime by not letting the load get completely with the program before reducing thermostat position

Sounds like you have to burn up quite a bit of wood before you can cruise, if you are waiting for the entire load to char. I guess a top-down start where not much wood gets involved is out of the question, then?

 

[moresnow]

How long have you had your 2.0? If you don't mind me asking, what square footage are you trying to heat?

Second year on this stove. If I recall?

Small story and a half. 750 Sq.Ft. on the main level (only 1/2 of which now has insulation between the studs on the main floor). I did install sheets of 1/2 or 5/8 insulation on the exterior while replacing the siding and windows. Same 750 Sq.Ft. upstairs. Basement is 750 Sq.Ft of unfinished concrete block/floor with zero heat (while burning wood) besides a small ceramic unit pointed towards our shower Brrrr down there. Or rather refreshing in the AM I should say!

Just another thought for ya if you so desire to try. After getting a fresh load well established. Turn down the therm in smaller than normal increments from your initial hot burn setting. Wait 10-15 minutes at first reduced setting. Really. It will take the stove time to correctly react to your adjustments. Likely you will still have lively fire. Repeat this routine until you correctly locate your sweet spot for eliminating flame during your wait, but staying on the edge so to speak. I marked this location with a small magnet early on in my uneducated fumbling about!

I now use this as a baseline to work from. Normally after getting through the initial hot burn I will reduce setting almost to the magnet and let the lively fire burn down till it gets to floating secondaries and eventually pretty much out. This can take quite awhile. Seems to set up my load for my last reduced setting. Last setting is just less than my magnet. 12 hr reloads for convenience has normally been. To soon.

This has worked for me rather well. Occasionally I still reduce to soon/far and get "the smell" as well. Guessing my rant is nothing but a repetition of aforementioned practices. Anyway. Good luck.

 

[Blazing]

Agreed. I can make this “smell”, but I know what I did to make it happen. Under normal use I never have a smell. I’ll also add that I run on medium/low almost always. I can run on the lowest setting on a minimum height flue without issues.

I also asked the question are they giving it time to adjust. Mine will make a smell when I go real low but once then temp comes down the coals start glowing and smell is gone.

 

[moresnow]

Sounds like you have to burn up quite a bit of wood before you can cruise, if you are waiting for the entire load to char. I guess a top-down start where not much wood gets involved is out of the question, then?

Hey Woody. I really have not messed with the top down method. Neither do I use kindling. When cold starting I use 1/4 of a S.C. tucked between lower splits. Crack door. Away she goes. Wait for healthy flame to set in and shut the door. As you mentioned it would seem to be a huge waste of fuel to get most if not all the splits burning robustly before shutting down. As I refine my method I have been amazed by how little is truly wasted getting to the happy shut down point. Why it works well can only be attributed to the lengthy, flameless, smokeless, strange burn/perculation that then takes place. My best guess? Dunno.

 

[Poindexter]

Wow. That's four of you guys having to turn down in tiny steps to avoid the smell.

I don't have this problem, at all. But I might have located a variable in the soup. I run my stove like a rented mule, a LOT.

How about tomorrow you four load up the driest, sappiest pine you can find, leave the Tsat on high and open some windows while you go to church. Leave the convection deck fans at the highest possible setting. Should burn down to coals in about four hours. Maybe take your wife out to lunch after church as preacher's are likely to be short winded tomorrow.

Do a hot reload with more dry sappy pine while you are home changing clothes, leave the windows open, leave the tstat on high and take your wife to a movie.

Then tomorrow night, after Poindextering your door gaskets twice, load the fool thing up again, run that on high for 30 minutes. Not 20. Thirty minutes, and then turn the tsat down to medium low in one step and go to bed.

If you don't have any dry softwood but are willing to give it a try, PM me a shipping addy. I can fit enough sapsicles of spruce into a USPS flat rate box to give Chris heartburn.

 

[Poindexter]

Coming up on 12 hours in. The combustor probe indicator has been parked at the same place i find burning charcoal. Flue gas probe hasnt indicated > 200 dF since the burn settled in on the low setting.


So far in the house today since the low burn started i have smelled the bacon i cooked for breakfast, gingerbread cookies, then my wife made a mediteranean dinner, garlic, rosemary and lamb. That was pretty stout, but no morte de spruce under that.

After dinner there was a small problem with the carmel popcorn that i noticed on my nasal array.

Ill check again in the am before i make
coffee, no smoke smell so far.

 

[oldbluedeer]

Second year on this stove. If I recall?

Small story and a half. 750 Sq.Ft. on the main level (only 1/2 of which now has insulation between the studs on the main floor). I did install sheets of 1/2 or 5/8 insulation on the exterior while replacing the siding and windows. Same 750 Sq.Ft. upstairs. Basement is 750 Sq.Ft of unfinished concrete block/floor with zero heat (while burning wood) besides a small ceramic unit pointed towards our shower Brrrr down there. Or rather refreshing in the AM I should say!

Just another thought for ya if you so desire to try. After getting a fresh load well established. Turn down the therm in smaller than normal increments from your initial hot burn setting. Wait 10-15 minutes at first reduced setting. Really. It will take the stove time to correctly react to your adjustments. Likely you will still have lively fire. Repeat this routine until you correctly locate your sweet spot for eliminating flame during your wait, but staying on the edge so to speak. I marked this location with a small magnet early on in my uneducated fumbling about!

I now use this as a baseline to work from. Normally after getting through the initial hot burn I will reduce setting almost to the magnet and let the lively fire burn down till it gets to floating secondaries and eventually pretty much out. This can take quite awhile. Seems to set up my load for my last reduced setting. Last setting is just less than my magnet. 12 hr reloads for convenience has normally been. To soon.

This has worked for me rather well. Occasionally I still reduce to soon/far and get "the smell" as well. Guessing my rant is nothing but a repetition of aforementioned practices. Anyway. Good luck.

Thanks, every little bit helps. I have tried turning down in increments, and that helps to reduce the smoke smell, at least the fuel has time to adjust to the new air mixture and doesn't start dumping a lot of unburnt gasses into the fire box. That doesn't resolve it though. I could easily do 24 hour reloads if the stove didn't stink me out of the house. So I am doing 12 hour reloads too at this point with hardwoods, or more often if I use a less dense wood like alder.

 

[oldbluedeer]

Wow. That's four of you guys having to turn down in tiny steps to avoid the smell.

I don't have this problem, at all. But I might have located a variable in the soup. I run my stove like a rented mule, a LOT.

How about tomorrow you four load up the driest, sappiest pine you can find, leave the Tsat on high and open some windows while you go to church. Leave the convection deck fans at the highest possible setting. Should burn down to coals in about four hours. Maybe take your wife out to lunch after church as preacher's are likely to be short winded tomorrow.

Do a hot reload with more dry sappy pine while you are home changing clothes, leave the windows open, leave the tstat on high and take your wife to a movie.

Then tomorrow night, after Poindextering your door gaskets twice, load the fool thing up again, run that on high for 30 minutes. Not 20. Thirty minutes, and then turn the tsat down to medium low in one step and go to bed.

If you don't have any dry softwood but are willing to give it a try, PM me a shipping addy. I can fit enough sapsicles of spruce into a USPS flat rate box to give Chris heartburn.

Might be easier to just burn the house down

 

[oldbluedeer]

Any recommendations on a flue probe?

I am looking at a Drolet and a Fluegard by Condar

https://www.efireplacestore.com/sbi-ac07840.html?refnum=NOV-637-8636

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LZDVAU/?tag=hearthamazon-20

Some folks recommend putting it about 18" above the stovetop, but since I have a telescoping double wall pipe there I am not keen on drilling through those layers of pipe. I would rather put it just above the adapter, about 4" above stovetop, at the very bottom of the telescoping pipe so I can see the hole going in, make sure it is a clean insert, and seal it off if I change my mind.

What would be the downside of putting it 4" above stovetop?

 

[Poindexter]

For those fighting the smell issue I have a question. Are you giving the fresh load a chance to get a rather complete char before reducing air? I can get the smell almost anytime by not letting the load get completely with the program before reducing thermostat position. Starting a fresh load works great on a cold start. By the time the fresh load gets fully engulfed the stat gauge and flu temps are still reasonable.
Not as easy on a hot reload (think. really high flu temps in a hurry while trying to engulf the new load). If part of the reload gets going really well its tough to not set the thermo to cruise and walk away. Doing this will give me the smell. Bit of a game. Maybe the stink is primarily in the exterior layer on the splits? Likely moisture or ? Just throwing this out there for consideration. Almost hate to add anything but I can normally get around this issue for the most part with correctly timed thermostat adjustments.

This might be part of it, but I can not do what you are saying to do and be fine. What I started doing last year and have been doing all year this season is rake all my coals over to one side instead of to the front. When I rake my coals to the front the first layer of splits is kinda propped up, and I got some wasted space under them.

By raking all my coals to one side, I can lay the first layer of splits in beside them on the ash bed, no wasted space, and fit "a little" more fuel in there.

I think moresnow's method is worth trying for you guys having troubles.

The Poindexter method is to push all the coals to one side of the box, maximize the incoming fuel load. Keep the door cracked (tstat wide open) long enough for the flue gas probe thermometer to be moving (you'll hear a constant steady roaring noise). As the load is catching, you will hear an intermittent roar, like a thump - pause - roar- thump - pause- roar - keep the door cracked to sustained roar. That's about the time the flue gas probe will start moving. New wood will be caught, and about 25-50% charred, with the half of the new load on the side away from the coals remaining not charred at all. Now close the door. On a hot reload, once the loading door is closed, engage the combustor right away and leave it on high thermostat (widest part of the swoosh) for 3-0 thirty minutes. Thirty minutes on full throttle after combustor engagement.

We just weren't seeing these complaints last year.

 

[Poindexter]

Might be easier to just burn the house down

If it wasn't safe to run the stove at full throttle they would have put the full throttle stop somewhere safe.

 

[Poindexter]

Imma tag @BKVP , in case I have this wrong. Or right. Last year, Sep 2017, I was going into heating season with 8 cords that barely metered 7%.

I PM'd Chris as "that guy" whose wood was "too dry" as explicated here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/solar-cord-wood-kiln-operation.152699/page-2#post-2100357

So I PMd Chris, what do I do now? He put me in touch with one of the guys at my local BK dealer. I dunno what happened or who talked to who, but the advice I got last year (autumn 2017) from my local BK dealer, that worked, burning cord after cord of wood that barely metered 7% MC, was to turn my tstat down from high to whatever after running 20 minutes on high instead of 30 minutes on high.

And it mostly worked. My stack looked like a c. 1900 coal fired battleship a lot of the time. Billows of black. I had to vacuum fly ash off the face of my combustor twice that season.

I think I wasted a LOT of btus up the stack and I am super glad the air quality police didn't show up with a w-a-r-r-a-n-t last year.

This year I am back up to 13-15% MC in my stacks, running 30 (thirty) minutes on high with every reload and I have no problems.

The current manual for the A30.1 says on pp 23 to run on high after reloading for 20-30 minutes, and it is dated 2015. I did buy my A30.0 in May of 2014 and remember pretty clearly the manual saying to run on high for 30 minutes.

My _opinion_ if you are running wood at greater than 11% MC is the size 30 box does better running 30 (thirty) minutes on high before the tstat setting is lowered from wide open throttle.

 

[Poindexter]

In those first few minutes with the loading door closed my fuel just pukes VOCs, I mean rainbow yawn puking.

If you wanna come over to my place and stand out in the yard at -35dF with a cold beverage in one hand for an hour or so and then come indoors so you can feel it, PM me, I got a guest room. Not having a very cold winter this year, but we can stand out there and get some ice crystals in the beers in our gloved hands no problem.

When you are cold enough to notice, a fresh load with on an engaged combustor puts out a lot lot lot of heat for a little while. When it is cold enough for me to burn a whole box full of wood down on the high tstat setting, with fuel at 12-16% MC, I would say the first 45-60 minutes is the punch, and the last 3 hours is the reverb.

Running on high at the beginning of a fresh load does a bunch of things.

One, allowing that wood 'ignites' around 600dF, you are boiling all the water out of the unburnt wood. All of it. If the box is 600dF and the combustor outlet temp is 1200dF witihin a few minutes (30 not 20 I hypothesize) your wood is going to be 'dry' as in zero point zero percent MC.

Once that little problem is solved, you don't have to waste anymore heat pumping excess water vapor up your chimney.

Two, you are burning off the wee hair like projections of wood, and the cat hair, and the dead mosquitoes and all the other junk on the surfaces of your splits.

Three, any ice or snow on your wood is going to melt, evaporate and be pumped up the chimney.

Four, the air dried sap is going to melt, drip, and get burnt as a smoky plume in the box and then get the combustor hot and bothered like, well never mind. All those oils in birch bark too. I kinda miss that girl except for the crazy part.

Once you get to there, you are ready to turn down the tstat.

Cellulose is big long strings of carbon C-C-C-C-C- etc, but with two hydrogens attached to each of the carbon atoms. When you burn that, combine it with (enough) oxygen, you get CO2 and H2O. The CO2 will be a gas down to some crazy cold temperature that even I don't have clothes for. The H2O will condense from steam to water at +212dF, but it will be in the 600-1200dF range as it passes through the cat - as long as you boiled the rest of the water off before you turned down the tstat.

That should be it. Incomplete combustion in the box, CO and OH, should convert to CO2 and H2O in the combustor, no matter what, as long as the cat is hot enough to be active and adequate oxygen is available.

Try 30 minutes on high you guys. It is my SOP with wood @ greater than 11% MC.

 

[moresnow]

When I rake my coals to the front the first layer of splits is kinda propped up, and I got some wasted space under them.

By raking all my coals to one side, I can lay the first layer of splits in beside them on the ash bed, no wasted space, and fit "a little" more fuel in there.

Now that's a idea! I'll have to give that a shot.

Some folks recommend putting it about 18" above the stovetop, but since I have a telescoping double wall pipe there I am not keen on drilling through those layers of pipe. I would rather put it just above the adapter, about 4" above stovetop, at the very bottom of the telescoping pipe so I can see the hole going in, make sure it is a clean insert, and seal it off if I change my mind.

What would be the downside of putting it 4" above stovetop?

Not sure if I am correct here but I would guess a guy could figure a simple ratio from temps taken at each location and come up with your personal scale/requirement at 4". Maybe?

 

[Poindexter]

I did a bit of research and chose a location that let me drill my double wall telescope without having to drill through 4 layers of metal. I was concerned that if I drilled all four layers of my telescope in the overlap area I would have to have everything lined up perfect to get all the screws back in...

http://www.condar.com/Probe-Instructions-EN.html

 

[Poindexter]

What would be the downside of putting it 4" above stovetop?

Turbulence and/or standing waves.

Moving a fluid out of a rectangular box into a round tube, there is going to be some variance, some hysteresis, in the first bit of round pipe.

If you got an insert and a pretty wall of brick on your living room, well, you are kinda screwed and will have to play with it. You might have a standing wave going in the first, mm, 6-15 inches of pipe where there is a pretty consistent hot spot and cold spot in the cross sectional area of the pipe. 0-10 inches or so up from the collar you will probably have some turbulence. Inconsistent readings either way. Plus, given your smoke smell issues you probably have a unique install with something going on no one has figured out yet...

I posted the Condar instructions a few moments ago. How far up from the stove collar can you drill through the upper piece without putting a hole in the lower piece?

If you got a fresh load on high for 30 minutes that doesn't melt your stove and then ghost flames for 10 minutes when you snap it to medium and the flames vanish ten minutes later when you snap it to low you don't have a significant oxygen leak through your loading door gasket. If all of the foregoing are true, run that thing at wide open tstat with the driest wood you got, down to coals, twice, and see what happens after that. Shouldn't take more than 10 hours if you got BK fans to run on high for those. Might want to open the windows and go to church tomorrow. Jesus loves you.

 

[webby3650]

I sure hope people aren’t reading this thread and being scared off from owning a BK. Here’s my reload/fire starting procedure: put wood in the stove, close the bypass, set the tstat to desired setting, walk away... repeat approximately 24 hours later. It’s so simple!

 

[webby3650]

220 stove top..was that before or after you lit the Oak?

That was stove top temp when I reloaded.

 

[Woody Stover]

Here’s my reload/fire starting procedure: put wood in the stove, close the bypass, set the tstat to desired setting, walk away...

Well, I burn in the load until I have the temp I need to light the cat more or less instantly. That might be 20-30 min. after a long burn where the stove top has dropped down around 200, but I don't want to burn on high for half an hour on every reload and send all that heat into the wild blue yonder. I don't remember if BKVP ever said why they want you to burn on high for 30 min. but I have a guess as to what the reason might be..

 

[rdust]

Has anyone chasing the smoke smell considered using a smoke machine? I've used smoke machines to find automotive related leaks in evap systems, intakes, intercoolers etc....plug the pipe, pump the stove full of smoke and see where it goes. No idea if it will work but may be worth a shot.

 

[Highbeam]

I sure hope people aren’t reading this thread and being scared off from owning a BK. Here’s my reload/fire starting procedure: put wood in the stove, close the bypass, set the tstat to desired setting, walk away... repeat approximately 24 hours later. It’s so simple!

Only the “sirrocco 2.0” is so problematic. Don’t worry, this stove is fictitious since only the 20 and 30 sirocco stoves are available anymore.

I do cold/warm starts every day and put much less effort into it than poindexter.

On my last chimney I drilled through all four layers of the telescopic double wall pipe for the flue probe meter. No big deal. The specified hole sizes allow for some slop. The holes had no effect on slipping the pipe together for future removal but you must remember to remove the meter first!