2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)

[Ashful]

Not to add more questions to the mix, but one forum member found an incomplete weld on their stove (I think it may have been a Sirocco) recently, and that was the cause of their creo smell. It was bubbling out thru this un-welded seam, and boiling on the hot outside of the steel firebox. Maybe someone here with more time (or interest) could dig up the post. It was within the last month.

 

[webby3650]

Here are two photos of the weld blob at the top of the Sirocco 2.0 stovetop collar (hopefully both photos show up, I have had trouble getting more than one photo to load, using iMac with Chrome).

The portion of the weld protruding above the collar definitely caused a problem with the loose fitting Duratech stovetop adapter. The weld only protrudes slightly toward the inside of the collar. With the tighter fitting Amerivent adapter, the weld blob may not have been such a big issue, but I removed it anyways. I didn't want to use a grinder in the house, so a sharp cold chisel and hammer removed it without making a mess.

View attachment 218288 View attachment 218289

The dura-vent adaptor fits sloppy on any flue collar, not just one with a bad weld.
I’m glad the Amerivent adaptor worked out. My pleasure

 

[oldbluedeer]

The dura-vent adaptor fits sloppy on any flue collar, not just one with a bad weld.
I’m glad the Amerivent adaptor worked out. My pleasure

The point I was trying to make was that since the diameter of the Duratech adapter was significantly less than the inside of the stove collar, the only point where a good seal could be obtained is where the adapter sits on top of the stove collar. That weld blob at the top of the collar caused there to be a gap even at the top of the collar.

Yes, I appreciate your suggestions. Thank you, and others who have helped.

 

[oldbluedeer]

Not to add more questions to the mix, but one forum member found an incomplete weld on their stove (I think it may have been a Sirocco) recently, and that was the cause of their creo smell. It was bubbling out thru this un-welded seam, and boiling on the hot outside of the steel firebox. Maybe someone here with more time (or interest) could dig up the post. It was within the last month.

That is worth noting. I will be doing a test with a bright flashlight inside the stove this evening just after dark, to see if anything shines through.

I have just got off the phone with Blaze King Support. I am humbled by their customer focus and responsiveness to this issue!

I will provide a more complete update on the issue with my stove, and the resolution, after trying two more things suggested by BKVP. I will hold off posting any more about the issue until these things get done.

Merry Christmas to all of you!

 

[Highbeam]

Anybody guess what was suggested while we wait? I guess that bk recommended sticking another chunk of pipe on top to get the barely legal chimney to draft per spec. 17' with two bends is weaker than 15' of all vertical I would guess.

Oh and is there now a scirroco 2.0? I thought they were 20 boxes, the little one.

 

[webby3650]

Anybody guess what was suggested while we wait? I guess that bk recommended sticking another chunk of pipe on top to get the barely legal chimney to draft per spec. 17' with two bends is weaker than 15' of all vertical I would guess.

Oh and is there now a scirroco 2.0? I thought they were 20 boxes, the little one.

I’d also suggest more flue. From my experience 45’s really put the hurts on draft, it’s doesnt bother easier breathing non-cats, but really shows itself on a BK. Many people have a 30 degree offset in there attic as well as 45’s below. Those have got to be real tall to work well!

 

[MissMac]

That is worth noting. I will be doing a test with a bright flashlight inside the stove this evening just after dark, to see if anything shines through.

I have just got off the phone with Blaze King Support. I am humbled by their customer focus and responsiveness to this issue!

I will provide a more complete update on the issue with my stove, and the resolution, after trying two more things suggested by BKVP. I will hold off posting any more about the issue until these things get done.

Merry Christmas to all of you!

keep me posted - i'm curious to know what things you check, and how you make out!

 

[Woody Stover]

This site is the go to for problems, rarely attracts people looking to sing a stoves praises.

There are a few exceptions, of course.

there are a lot of people on this forum who love to sing the praises of BK stoves and speak on their behalf.

You noticed that too, huh?

one forum member found an incomplete weld on their stove (I think it may have been a Sirocco) recently, and that was the cause of their creo smell. It was bubbling out thru this un-welded seam, and boiling on the hot outside of the steel firebox.

Many newbs don't realize that this "alien technology" might also apply to shoddy welding done by undocumented workers. C'mon, it's a joke!

 

[jetsam]

I wonder if they get a lot of people dropping into the "2017-2018 Englander Performance Thread Part 2" to complain about people who like Englanders.

 

[lsucet]

I have around 3 1/2 ft of telescope DVL from the stove top to the first 45, one ft section of DVL between the two 45. The 2nd 45 connects to the support box adapter and from the support box I have 14' of class A and termination cap. What is the total in ft that I have? Do the 45s and the ft section between count in the total length?
To me, I am around 19', but I don't know if is right. I don't have draft problems at all. I can burn on low on 70 df days with no problem. I just want to know if the length I claim is correct.

 

[rdust]

I have a Princesa and used to get a smoke smell when dialed down low if I put my nose right up on the stove. I added the webby suggested adapter, swapped out a 90 for two 45's and pretty much solved my issues. I think any of these BK stoves could have the issue if the chimney system isn't up to snuff.

I think the biggest reason we hear the occasional complaint on the ashford is the stove is a nicer looking stove that ends up in houses with picker owners since the Princess/King models are "ugly" to them. I burn wood in my house, the occasional smoke smell is completely acceptable to me, my princess is no more or less stinky than my Lopi Endeavor was.

 

[burninwood]

1 in 10,000 units? Good grief, that is a ridiculous estimate, as there have been at least 3-4 people (or more, I haven't been keeping a tally) on this one forum with the smoke smell problem in just the past few weeks. By the way, there are a lot of people on this forum who love to sing the praises of BK stoves and speak on their behalf. Your comment was inaccurate, and not helpful at all. Meanwhile, I and others are trying to resolve a very real issue with smoke smell in the house.

You can sign me up for the smoke smell problem as well, @oldbluedeer ; new Sirocco 30.1 this season that replaced my PE.

When sniffing around the hinge side of door, it is apparent that this is where it is coming from. My door gasket seam is right in the middle of the vertical rise of door on the hinge side. I believe this to be a fail on the gasket install from the factory and will likely proceed with replacing it.

I'm burning hardwood that's 14-17%, chimney is 20+ feet of Class A running right through the middle of house from the main floor, and terminating well above peak. Draft is not an issue in this house. Unlike some, my collar welds were clean and smooth - no splatter, and my ICC Ultrablack fit beautifully.

I get the smell if Tstat is set around 3:30-4 with a nicely charred full load of wood. When the stove is cold, I can hear the throttle plate click shut at about 2:30...seemingly anything from 12-2:30 is wasted dial space. Seems strange to have a dial that spins 180, yet only 90 degrees is usable. Is this common with the stats on BK stoves?

Hoping to solve this as well since the stove was not cheap. Lately, the smell hasn't been an issue since I was running the stove a little hard to keep up with the low temps outside.

 

[oldbluedeer]

You can sign me up for the smoke smell problem as well, @oldbluedeer ; new Sirocco 30.1 this season that replaced my PE.

When sniffing around the hinge side of door, it is apparent that this is where it is coming from. My door gasket seam is right in the middle of the vertical rise of door on the hinge side. I believe this to be a fail on the gasket install from the factory and will likely proceed with replacing it.

I'm burning hardwood that's 14-17%, chimney is 20+ feet of Class A running right through the middle of house from the main floor, and terminating well above peak. Draft is not an issue in this house. Unlike some, my collar welds were clean and smooth - no splatter, and my ICC Ultrablack fit beautifully.

I get the smell if Tstat is set around 3:30-4 with a nicely charred full load of wood. When the stove is cold, I can hear the throttle plate click shut at about 2:30...seemingly anything from 12-2:30 is wasted dial space. Seems strange to have a dial that spins 180, yet only 90 degrees is usable. Is this common with the stats on BK stoves?

Hoping to solve this as well since the stove was not cheap. Lately, the smell hasn't been an issue since I was running the stove a little hard to keep up with the low temps outside.

I was told that the lowest usable setting on the Tstat is 2pm or so. My door gasket seam is in the same place halfway between the hinges, as best I can tell. I also get the smell with a nicely charred full load of wood, when I turn the tstat below 4pm or so. It helps if I turn it down gradually over the course of 15 minutes or so. I typically don't get any smell if the load is 1/2 or less, which isn't much wood in the Sirocco 2.0. Anyways, I don't want to go into any more detail until after I have tried a couple of things recommended by BKVP user.

I'll post an update on this forum sometime after Christmas. Merry Christmas!

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I think the biggest reason we hear the occasional complaint on the ashford is the stove is a nicer looking stove that ends up in houses with picker owners since the Princess/King models are "ugly" to them. I burn wood in my house, the occasional smoke smell is completely acceptable to me, my princess is no more or less stinky than my Lopi Endeavor was.

It seems a little unfair to say that people who may be suffering a real problem because of a smell in their houses are simply pickier than others. The Princess and King models have higher emissions and dirtier glass than the Ashford/Sirocco/Chinook models. It’s all the same alien technology, but there are some differences, and maybe that makes these models more subject to smell problems if there are other confounding factors.

I’m researching whether a Blaze King would be a good fit for me, and it would not be a Princess or a King because I don’t need that size. I just notice that those who express skepticism seem to be burning Princesses. I’d find it more helpful to keep focusing on the possible confounding factors rather than seeming to dismiss complaints with assumptions that people are pickier. I wouldn’t want to invest thousands in setting up a stove and find that it had a constant smoke smell. I’ve lived the vast majority of my life with wood heat, and I don’t consider that part of the bargain.

 

[burninwood]

I was told that the lowest usable setting on the Tstat is 2pm or so. My door gasket seam is in the same place halfway between the hinges, as best I can tell. I also get the smell with a nicely charred full load of wood, when I turn the tstat below 4pm or so. It helps if I turn it down gradually over the course of 15 minutes or so. I typically don't get any smell if the load is 1/2 or less, which isn't much wood in the Sirocco 2.0. Anyways, I don't want to go into any more detail until after I have tried a couple of things recommended by BKVP user.

Sounds good - I won't complain anymore about it either until I replace the gasket.

So you know, what you describe matches my experience to a tee. Thanks for the info on the usable Tstat range - I at least feel better about this now.

Merry Christmas!

 

[oldbluedeer]

This is one theory I have. Wicking or capillary action, same thing.

The other is the combustion air is blowing the smoke through the pores of the gasket. All that creo in the corners of the glass build up because they are blown there and condense out because of the relatively cool glass and cool combustion air.

The smoke smell might be a combination of the two above hypotheses.

For anybody interested, the fire box never goes into the positive. It never changes pressure substantially as the pressure drop across the cat is nil.
I just proved this by actual measurement. Of course, the cat must not be plugged for this to continue to be true.

Taking a pressure (vacuum) reading at the cat thermometer hole is essentially the same as the firebox.

@kf6hap is it possible that your instrument isn't sensitive enough to measure the pressure difference between flue and firebox? What is the sensitivity of the instrument? Would you mind sharing the brand and model number? Some reviews that I read on Amazon, for various instruments, indicated that the sensitivity had to be fairly good for flue pressure measurements. This is not in my area of expertise, just sharing what I read...

In my case, the measurement that I would be interested in would be the pressure difference between firebox (with a hold drilled up through the ash plug to insert some tubing) and the room air in my house, under three conditions:

1. When the stove is just sitting there cold. This measurement should be zero.
2. With a fully loaded stove, after you've fired up the stove, with the damper fully open, and the cat meter reading 3 pm or so (this would be near maximum draft under typical operating conditions of the stove).
3. With a fully loaded stove, after you've fired up the stove, had the cat meter up to 2 pm or so, and then set the damper for the long burn, perhaps one hour after you have dampered down and the cat meter is somewhere around 10:30 or 11:00 pm or so, or wherever your cat meter reads when you achieve those long burns (the effective draft would be much lower at this point, since when we lower the damper on the stove we also reduce the inlet size and the amount of air flowing up the chimney).

I would do it myself, if I could buy a device that made sensitive enough readings, without paying several hundred dollars.

What do you think?

 

[kf6hap]

is it possible that your instrument isn't sensitive enough to measure the pressure difference between flue and firebox? What is the sensitivity of the instrument? Would you mind sharing the brand and model number? Some reviews that I read on Amazon, for various instruments, indicated that the sensitivity had to be fairly good for flue pressure measurements. This is not in my area of expertise, just sharing what I read...

The instrument is a .25" full scale Magnehelic. The drop across the cat is ~.004" WC, barely readable and effectively nil. The cat is like a wide open pipe and causes almost no pressure drop. Measured via the ash plug and the cat thermometer probe hole. Measuring the stove internal pressure (vacuum) at the cat hole is a valid reading, provided the cat is not plugged. It is mechanical but has no hysteresis as the pointer assembly literally floats on a magnetic field.

1. When the stove is just sitting there cold. This measurement should be zero.

Even with a cool stove it will read something in the order of .02" as it is winter and the warm house causes draw.

2. With a fully loaded stove, after you've fired up the stove, with the damper fully open, and the cat meter reading 3 pm or so (this would be near maximum draft under typical operating conditions of the stove).

The stove control positions make nil difference in the strength of the draft, Stack height and flue gas temperature determine draw. Physics.

3. With a fully loaded stove, after you've fired up the stove, had the cat meter up to 2 pm or so, and then set the damper for the long burn, perhaps one hour after you have dampered down and the cat meter is somewhere around 10:30 or 11:00 pm or so, or wherever your cat meter reads when you achieve those long burns (the effective draft would be much lower at this point, since when we lower the damper on the stove we also reduce the inlet size and the amount of air flowing up the chimney).

Opening and closing the thermostat makes only a tiny insignificant change in firebox pressure.

The Magnehelic can be had from Amazon. ~$75.00 Two barbed fittings will be needed to attach 1/4' rubber hose. 3/18" copper pipe fits the cat hole. This is refrigeration (high side) tubing. Hardware stores do not normally carry it.

My setup runs .1" at 400F as indicated by the flue probe. 17'x6", straight up.

 

[MissMac]

You can sign me up for the smoke smell problem as well, @oldbluedeer ; new Sirocco 30.1 this season that replaced my PE.

When sniffing around the hinge side of door, it is apparent that this is where it is coming from. My door gasket seam is right in the middle of the vertical rise of door on the hinge side. I believe this to be a fail on the gasket install from the factory and will likely proceed with replacing it.

I'm burning hardwood that's 14-17%, chimney is 20+ feet of Class A running right through the middle of house from the main floor, and terminating well above peak. Draft is not an issue in this house. Unlike some, my collar welds were clean and smooth - no splatter, and my ICC Ultrablack fit beautifully.

I get the smell if Tstat is set around 3:30-4 with a nicely charred full load of wood. When the stove is cold, I can hear the throttle plate click shut at about 2:30...seemingly anything from 12-2:30 is wasted dial space. Seems strange to have a dial that spins 180, yet only 90 degrees is usable. Is this common with the stats on BK stoves?

Hoping to solve this as well since the stove was not cheap. Lately, the smell hasn't been an issue since I was running the stove a little hard to keep up with the low temps outside.

sounds like you're having the same symptoms with the same stove as I have. i had to replace my door gasket due to a poorly installed one from the manufacturer, but as soon as i get the t-stat around the 4 o'clock position, i can smell smoke over the stove and throughout the house. i haven't been able to turn mine down below 3 o'clock ever, but for now i'm just tolerating the smell cause it's so cold out! currently -23*C, and burning on a 4'clock setting. let me know if you figure out what's causing your smell issue!

 

[MissMac]

You can sign me up for the smoke smell problem as well, @oldbluedeer ; new Sirocco 30.1 this season that replaced my PE.

When sniffing around the hinge side of door, it is apparent that this is where it is coming from. My door gasket seam is right in the middle of the vertical rise of door on the hinge side. I believe this to be a fail on the gasket install from the factory and will likely proceed with replacing it.

I'm burning hardwood that's 14-17%, chimney is 20+ feet of Class A running right through the middle of house from the main floor, and terminating well above peak. Draft is not an issue in this house. Unlike some, my collar welds were clean and smooth - no splatter, and my ICC Ultrablack fit beautifully.

I get the smell if Tstat is set around 3:30-4 with a nicely charred full load of wood. When the stove is cold, I can hear the throttle plate click shut at about 2:30...seemingly anything from 12-2:30 is wasted dial space. Seems strange to have a dial that spins 180, yet only 90 degrees is usable. Is this common with the stats on BK stoves?

Hoping to solve this as well since the stove was not cheap. Lately, the smell hasn't been an issue since I was running the stove a little hard to keep up with the low temps outside.

where abouts in ON are you?

 

[Highbeam]

I believe the members who are complaining of an odor from their stoves. Whether the odor is tolerable is a personal decision. As a bk fan, I do not like having to warn potential buyers that there may be an odor. I feel like it is a black eye for the brand.

If we can figure out the reason and solution then the whole community (present and future) will benefit.

It might be a manufacturing defect, design defect, installation deficiency, or operator error. We all win when the odor becomes a non issue.

Keep fighting guys!

 

[BKVP]

Might I ask for your help here. There are a few owners that continue to have a smoke smell issue. Many have been addressed and now performing correctly.

If you still are having a smoke smell, that should not be the case and even if one case is unresolved, that is one too many.

So please PM me the following (and forgive me for asking you to start over):

Your Name, Address and daytime telephone number
Name of Dealer Where Stove Purchased
Date of Purchase
Model
Pictures of inside and outside chimney
Do you have a Fresh Air Kit
Species of wood burned

I assure you the information will be keep secure and only used to bring about your satisfaction with your investment in our product.

Thank you
BKVP
Chris

 

[Highbeam]

My princess has been a real sweetheart on this fresh cat and primo Douglas fir fuel. With only 12’ of stack (met the manual requirements when I installed) I am able to run it 24/7 in my 1700 sf home to hold 72 inside with temperatures up to about 50 outside. Above 50 it just makes too much heat for constant burning.

This morning it’s 25 degrees out and the stove room is 75 with the bk idling just above low setting making plenty heat. Feels like the thermostat system somehow compensates for the higher demand.

No smoke, some obvious steam at times, low flue temps, haven’t emptied ash yet this year!

 

[AlbergSteve]

I believe the members who are complaining of an odor from their stoves. Whether the odor is tolerable is a personal decision. As a bk fan, I do not like having to warn potential buyers that there may be an odor. I feel like it is a black eye for the brand.

If we can figure out the reason and solution then the whole community (present and future) will benefit.

It might be a manufacturing defect, design defect, installation deficiency, or operator error. We all win when the odor becomes a non issue.

Keep fighting guys!

Thank you, @Highbeam .

 

[MissMac]

I believe the members who are complaining of an odor from their stoves. Whether the odor is tolerable is a personal decision. As a bk fan, I do not like having to warn potential buyers that there may be an odor. I feel like it is a black eye for the brand.

If we can figure out the reason and solution then the whole community (present and future) will benefit.

It might be a manufacturing defect, design defect, installation deficiency, or operator error. We all win when the odor becomes a non issue.

Keep fighting guys!

Thanks Highbeam! My new gasket did not do the trick, so the investigation continues. I can't dial down below full throttle without getting into the smell, regardless of conditions outside, how long I've charred my wood etc.

 

[oldbluedeer]

The instrument is a .25" full scale Magnehelic. The drop across the cat is ~.004" WC, barely readable and effectively nil. The cat is like a wide open pipe and causes almost no pressure drop. Measured via the ash plug and the cat thermometer probe hole. Measuring the stove internal pressure (vacuum) at the cat hole is a valid reading, provided the cat is not plugged. It is mechanical but has no hysteresis as the pointer assembly literally floats on a magnetic field.

Even with a cool stove it will read something in the order of .02" as it is winter and the warm house causes draw.

The stove control positions make nil difference in the strength of the draft, Stack height and flue gas temperature determine draw. Physics.

Opening and closing the thermostat makes only a tiny insignificant change in firebox pressure.

I disagree. Draft is by definition the flow of air/smoke from stove up through chimney. By definition, if you reduce the damper setting, this reduces the inlet size, and this reduces the air flow or draft up the chimney.

Stack height, flue gas temperature, and outside temperature are prerequisites for draft, they provide the potential, but draft does not occur unless air is moving. It's like water in some respect. You can have 40 psi at the faucet, and the potential to run water, but you don't have any flow until you open the handle on the faucet. Yet draft is more than just the prerequisites, because the inertia of the mass of air flowing up the chimney creates draft, just as water flowing in a tube can create a siphon, the movement of air or water in a closed system creates a draw or suction effect. That is why if you open the damper, it takes a little time for the draft to get going stronger.

Draft become a bit of a red herring when the system is dampered down, because dampering down a stove by definition reduces draft. And it is clear that that smoke smell is exiting the stove in many different instances (via leaky door gaskets, pinholes in welds, bad fitting adapters, and who knows where else).when people damper down the stove. There is too much circumstantial evidence to say otherwise. Even BKVP acknowledges this.

My setup runs .1" at 400F as indicated by the flue probe. 17'x6", straight up.

[/QUOTE]

Can you explain what you mean by this? Are you saying that .1" is the difference in pressure between the probe in the cat meter and the ambient room air?