2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)
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Thanks we just picked two up today I got one up and it's making a world of difference
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
Alright y'all. I am super curious about the smoke smell thing some folks are having and committed to picking up a manometer system for relative cheap.
FWIW I have 15'6" of straight stack, no elbows, and am willing to make manometer measurements at various outdoor temps and tstat settings.. I got no detectable smoke smell at my house, other than my cooking. I will say at warm enough temps to think about wearing shorts outdoors when the wife wants the stove lit anyway I do occasionally get the faintest whiff of burning firewood, but that has to be right at the edge of the operating envelope of the stove.
Looking like the Dwyer unit:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009PAN3C8/?tag=hearthamazon-20
Is this one the correct sensor tip to fit through the existing hole in my double wall pipe for the flue gas temp probe?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008HOWU6I/?tag=hearthamazon-20
What else do I need?
Thanks. I am super curious about this issue. The groove in my door gasket from the knife edge isn't that different from many of yours pictured here. I don't spend a lot of time on my hands and knees sniffing my door gasket. I do have four BBQ cookers and could do all at once, a 14# turkey, 3 packer cut briskets, 2 pork shoulders, about three pounds of sausage, a three pound meatloaf and a six pack of bacon wrapped sriracha onion rings. I guess I could pull one of the briskets to make room for a couple salmon fillets in one of the cookers and round out the menu with a fish course.
I guess if I _really_ wanted to check my BK stove for smoke leaks I should throw some hickory in there and drop the tstat to minimum, but I am willing to start with a manometer. Hickory is far too pricey up here to heat the house with it.
FWIW I have 15'6" of straight stack, no elbows, and am willing to make manometer measurements at various outdoor temps and tstat settings.. I got no detectable smoke smell at my house, other than my cooking. I will say at warm enough temps to think about wearing shorts outdoors when the wife wants the stove lit anyway I do occasionally get the faintest whiff of burning firewood, but that has to be right at the edge of the operating envelope of the stove.
Looking like the Dwyer unit:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009PAN3C8/?tag=hearthamazon-20
Is this one the correct sensor tip to fit through the existing hole in my double wall pipe for the flue gas temp probe?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008HOWU6I/?tag=hearthamazon-20
What else do I need?
Thanks. I am super curious about this issue. The groove in my door gasket from the knife edge isn't that different from many of yours pictured here. I don't spend a lot of time on my hands and knees sniffing my door gasket. I do have four BBQ cookers and could do all at once, a 14# turkey, 3 packer cut briskets, 2 pork shoulders, about three pounds of sausage, a three pound meatloaf and a six pack of bacon wrapped sriracha onion rings. I guess I could pull one of the briskets to make room for a couple salmon fillets in one of the cookers and round out the menu with a fish course.
I guess if I _really_ wanted to check my BK stove for smoke leaks I should throw some hickory in there and drop the tstat to minimum, but I am willing to start with a manometer. Hickory is far too pricey up here to heat the house with it.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Don't get bummed. You bought a stove from one of the most well-supported stand-up stove companies in the world. I see them regularly supporting their stoves here, even in cases when one could argue they shouldn't. @BKVP travels quite a bit, so it may be a day or two before you hear from him, but I am sure he will address this issue.
Smoke smell.... the comment about turbulence is very interesting. As a pilot myself, after reading that post, I think that might be it. On low, especially, with wet wood or if turned down to early after starting a fire I can every once in a while get a faint smell near the door.
So what causes it? BK is the only stove that turns down this low which means it passes less CFM (cubic feet of air per minute) though it than any other stove on the market. It create some unique circumstances where a very slight smell close to the door (not across the room) could be detected, even with, in my case a flue drafting twice the maximum recommended draft on low.
There could be some vortices much like on the wing tip of a airliner, happening at the air wash, under low CFM but considerable pressure drop.
These blaze kings are amazing pieces of equipment. Still impressed. A lot of this is just splicing hairs, but love my princess.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
So what causes it? BK is the only stove that turns down this low which means it passes less CFM (cubic feet of air per minute) though it than any other stove on the market. It create some unique circumstances where a very slight smell close to the door (not across the room) could be detected, even with, in my case a flue drafting twice the maximum recommended draft on low.
There could be some vortices much like on the wing tip of a airliner, happening at the air wash, under low CFM but considerable pressure drop.
These blaze kings are amazing pieces of equipment. Still impressed. A lot of this is just splicing hairs, but love my princess.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I don't think so. Probably about like a box fan but since its head level you can hear it but it's not in the way of the kids. I would also make sure the mounting screws are as tight as possible I didn't seem to have any trouble with this, and for the benefit it's making I can't complain at all.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Poindexter, Don't bother with the probe tip. Use a piece of 1/4" copper pipe pushed down the thermometer hole. Mine is about 3 1/2 feet long to get it away from the hot stove. A piece of 1/4" (ID) rubber pipe joins the two together.
You will need a barb fitting to join the hose. It will just push over the 1/4" pipe.
You will need a barb fitting to join the hose. It will just push over the 1/4" pipe.
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The smoke smell issue comes up when the stove is at low fire. Under these conditions, the air velocities being so low, airflow usually leans towards being laminar rather than turbulent. If turbulence were the cause of smoke smell, why does it go away when the outside air temperature drops? Just guessing, these things can be deceptively complex or plain simple.
"It is amazing how all manner of problems vanish when the chimney system is made proper".
"It is amazing how all manner of problems vanish when the chimney system is made proper".
Way better than the water tube device, cheap too:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N3PPZZY/?tag=hearthamazon-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N3PPZZY/?tag=hearthamazon-20
oldbluedeer
New Member
Just kidding, although that is what was on my older stove. It never needed replacing but did need "boiler putty" now and then as the castings would shift about.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
I don't think the thermometer probe hole is the way for me to go.
I am remembering the story about the three blind guys trying to describe an elephant. On this one, i am just another blind guy. I don't "know" the answer. I do know when I get the faintest whiff of maybe smoke smell out of mine the outdoor temp's already warm enough that I wouldn't be running the stove at all except for the wife wanting me to run the stove.
So do i have a smoke smell sometimes? Sure, I guess so, but with the caveat that I only experience it running the stove on what has to be the ragged edge of the design parameters anyway.
If i am going to go to this trouble I want my measurements to be repeatable by other folks in other climates with other installs. I am thinking the right thing for me to do is get a short adapter that can go between my stove collar and my telescope pipe, so the sensor is a few inches up from the bottom of the pipe, pretty close to the center of the cross section of the pipe and thereby measure the water column suction that is applied to the stove, not fool around trying to measure airflow inside the stove somewhere.
Every single BK manual I have personally downloaded calls for 15' of stack above the collar. So measuring the draw on mine right at the base of that 15' of pipe and not having any smell ought to be useful.
For arguments sake, suppose I measure 5 axe handles per bushel at +45dF on low throttle and have no smell, and then at +50dF on low throttle I measure 4.8 axe handles per bushel and do get just the faintest whiff of what might be wood smoke. Then Joe comes along and he's got got 17' of pipe with 2 45s and he's got smoke smell and he hooks his manometer up the same way i did mine and he's got 4.6 axe handles per bushel, can we all agree Joe needs more pipe, or am I wasting my time here?
I am remembering the story about the three blind guys trying to describe an elephant. On this one, i am just another blind guy. I don't "know" the answer. I do know when I get the faintest whiff of maybe smoke smell out of mine the outdoor temp's already warm enough that I wouldn't be running the stove at all except for the wife wanting me to run the stove.
So do i have a smoke smell sometimes? Sure, I guess so, but with the caveat that I only experience it running the stove on what has to be the ragged edge of the design parameters anyway.
If i am going to go to this trouble I want my measurements to be repeatable by other folks in other climates with other installs. I am thinking the right thing for me to do is get a short adapter that can go between my stove collar and my telescope pipe, so the sensor is a few inches up from the bottom of the pipe, pretty close to the center of the cross section of the pipe and thereby measure the water column suction that is applied to the stove, not fool around trying to measure airflow inside the stove somewhere.
Every single BK manual I have personally downloaded calls for 15' of stack above the collar. So measuring the draw on mine right at the base of that 15' of pipe and not having any smell ought to be useful.
For arguments sake, suppose I measure 5 axe handles per bushel at +45dF on low throttle and have no smell, and then at +50dF on low throttle I measure 4.8 axe handles per bushel and do get just the faintest whiff of what might be wood smoke. Then Joe comes along and he's got got 17' of pipe with 2 45s and he's got smoke smell and he hooks his manometer up the same way i did mine and he's got 4.6 axe handles per bushel, can we all agree Joe needs more pipe, or am I wasting my time here?
I really think some people are just extra sensitive to it. I have had the faint smell at times, but I heat with wood.. I love heating with wood, and it saves me a lot of money. So a little smell here and there is ok is what I’m sayin.
Anytime I’ve had “the smell” is running as low as possible, while using a minimum chimney. I’d rather have a tiny bit of odor along with controllable heat than an over heated house.
When I asked the question to BKVP about my King, he said they test with manometer 32 " from stovetop, so that's what I did.... Your stove might be a different measurement though ??
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
I am confident this is part of the explanation.
I resemble that remark and agree with it.
It has occured to me to wonder if some (not pointing fingers at anyone, I see a couple of these every year), but I can't help but wonder sometimes if folks intentionally bought too big a stove so they could run it on low all the time and then ultra ultra double secret low in shoulder seasons. I haven't noticed one this year, but a couple seasons ago there was a guy that had me praying for the good Lord to install a "smite" button on my hearth dot com dashboard.
It seems to me if you aren't running your stove full throttle for 6-8 weeks in the dead of winter you probably have too big a stove for your sqft/ climate/ what have you. I don't see many draught horses in the dressage ring is what I am getting at.
And then there are these other ones where I just don't really have a clue what the problem might be, other than them having a more sensitive schnozz than me, but their gasket really doesn't look that different than mine and they did all the steps to prove their wood is dry, and I guess I should just shut up since I don't have anything more useful to say.
I’m right there with ya my man. Except for the running full tilt thing. I rarely ever do that... But sure enjoy it!
oldbluedeer
New Member
Enlightenment can happen at the most unexpected times. These are good conversations to have. Sometimes I have to hear something a number of times before it sinks into my stubborn head.
I could have gotten the Ashford 20 and have been very happy with it but having an endless supply of pine, a lot of it beetle killed, the bigger firebox was very attractive for burn time. The 30.1 worked out to be a very good choice. The minimum BTU difference between the 20 and the 30 is not that big. The EPA test burn rate for the 30 is actually lower than the 20 implying a lower possible BTU output for the 30. If somebody swiped my stove, I would do it again with another Ashford 30.
As for the smoke smell, the gasket changeout fixed it.
The above quote is definitely part of the smoke smell equation. If run or installed improperly, any stove will have problems.
As for the smoke smell, the gasket changeout fixed it.
The above quote is definitely part of the smoke smell equation. If run or installed improperly, any stove will have problems.
So, from what I gather, 3 things can cause smoke smell with tested seasoned wood:
1. Worn/incorrect/poorly installed door gasket. It must be placed in a continuous bed of RTV. Dollar bill test not always reliable where smoke smell is concerned. Good for air leaks though.
2. Insufficient draw due to flue height, diameter or type of flue. Bends must be accounted for. Double wall from stove to ceiling. No leaks.
3. Operating the stove at the ragged edge of design parameters. Put another way too low a burn rate even if the cat is still active.
So, if you get smoke smell at times other than low burn, 1 and or 2 must be looked into. All bets are off it is summer and just can't wait for a good burn day.
Within limits, just how low you can burn and not have smell or loose thermostatic control might be improved with increased flue height. What these limits might be others with high stacks might comment.
Stoves operated at the ragged edge have been known to produce gooky creosote. From what I gather, kinda rare for a BK though. Operate your flue below condensing at your own peril. It can be done, but check it. Remember the top is a lot colder than at the stove's outlet.
1. Worn/incorrect/poorly installed door gasket. It must be placed in a continuous bed of RTV. Dollar bill test not always reliable where smoke smell is concerned. Good for air leaks though.
2. Insufficient draw due to flue height, diameter or type of flue. Bends must be accounted for. Double wall from stove to ceiling. No leaks.
3. Operating the stove at the ragged edge of design parameters. Put another way too low a burn rate even if the cat is still active.
So, if you get smoke smell at times other than low burn, 1 and or 2 must be looked into. All bets are off it is summer and just can't wait for a good burn day.
Within limits, just how low you can burn and not have smell or loose thermostatic control might be improved with increased flue height. What these limits might be others with high stacks might comment.
Stoves operated at the ragged edge have been known to produce gooky creosote. From what I gather, kinda rare for a BK though. Operate your flue below condensing at your own peril. It can be done, but check it. Remember the top is a lot colder than at the stove's outlet.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
I might add, the glass gasket fit within the door frame itself. Rare, but has happened once that we all know about.
Tegbert
Feeling the Heat
I have a question about the thermostat operation.
When turned down does the thermostat close when the temperature is high enough and then only open as far as it is set to or will it open above the set point?
Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25
When turned down does the thermostat close when the temperature is high enough and then only open as far as it is set to or will it open above the set point?
Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25
I think it will try to attain the new temp you set it at so it might open pretty far at first but as the stove approaches the new temp the thermo will start closing.
I get the smoke smell 100% of the time. High low. 50 degrees 0 degrees. It bothered me alot when I first got the stove. Now im just used to it. It's the bbq smell over the top of the door on the hinge side. I do only have about 15.5 feet of chimney with 2 offset 45s. But I get great burn times, 24 hours easily. I also have the ash pan issue on my Ashford 30.1. But the house is warm and the wife don't complain about it anymore.
SuperJ
Feeling the Heat
I get the smoke smell. But it's backwards for me. No smell on low, but on high there is a definite creosote smell when when I walk into the room (30ft from the stove, to be clear I'm not sniffing around at the gasket looking for problems). So far it hasn't been cold enough to warrant running on high other than when I reload for a bit. The smell doesn't come on too strong for the first 30 minutes or so, I think it's coming from the hinge side of the gasket based on how creosote soaked that section of the gasket looks.
I did speak with Blaze King Canada, and he suggested a door alignment since the whole door seems shifted towards the latch side (based on the impressions in the gasket material). On the Ashford the door is attached to the front casting and there are bolts that can be adjusted for left/right alignment. I haven't done it yet, it's hard to find a day warm enough to let the stove cool off for some tweaking.
If the door adjustment doesn't fix it, I'll try a new gasket.
I did speak with Blaze King Canada, and he suggested a door alignment since the whole door seems shifted towards the latch side (based on the impressions in the gasket material). On the Ashford the door is attached to the front casting and there are bolts that can be adjusted for left/right alignment. I haven't done it yet, it's hard to find a day warm enough to let the stove cool off for some tweaking.
If the door adjustment doesn't fix it, I'll try a new gasket.
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