2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[BrianN]

I just finished doing my major clean on my King. Also installed the new CAT (the old one was very brittle and pretty much falling apart as I took it to the garbage. Also it was very dirty, so, that would explain why it would not stay active)
I also noticed that my catalyst thermometer is well past the inactive zone, and all the way around to the active zone. Is this normal? Or should I adjust it so that it is reading closer to the inactive zone while it is cold?

 

[webby3650]

I just finished doing my major clean on my King. Also installed the new CAT (the old one was very brittle and pretty much falling apart as I took it to the garbage. Also it was very dirty, so, that would explain why it would not stay active)
I also noticed that my catalyst thermometer is well past the inactive zone, and all the way around to the active zone. Is this normal? Or should I adjust it so that it is reading closer to the inactive zone while it is cold?
View attachment 201045

That’s way out of calibration! Loosen it with 2, 5/16” wrenches. Any chance a kid was messing with it? It’s possible the coil spring has been compromised, I’ve never seen out that far out of calibration.

 

[BrianN]

Nope, no chance of any one playing with it. I will set it back now then.
Thank you.
I just tightened the nut on the bottom. It was loose, and upon tightening it, the arrow ended up just under the inactive zone.

 

[jetsam]

It's 77 today. Supposed to be 72 a week from today, October 15. My stove spiders are getting smug.

Edit: A week from today is October 15, not 25.

 

[webby3650]

It's 77 today. Supposed to be 72 a week from today, October 25. My stove spiders are getting smug.

Mid 60’s and rainy here. I’m really getting in the mood to burn, I’ve got to get my stoves hooked up..

 

[tarzan]

I just finished doing my major clean on my King. Also installed the new CAT (the old one was very brittle and pretty much falling apart as I took it to the garbage. Also it was very dirty, so, that would explain why it would not stay active)
I also noticed that my catalyst thermometer is well past the inactive zone, and all the way around to the active zone. Is this normal? Or should I adjust it so that it is reading closer to the inactive zone while it is cold?
View attachment 201045

If that thermometer was used as is, that also might explain why your cat wouldn't stay active.

 

[BrianN]

Now, with the fire going, the thermometer is on the very high side of active, but the stove is only at 500.

 

[BKVP]

Actually that is not fully accurate. Over time the gasket becomes compressed. The handle may still feel tight (camminng over) but you should still check with the dollar.

I ran my King 8 years before I replaced my gasket, with two adjustments in the 8 years.

 

[webby3650]

Now, with the fire going, the thermometer is on the very high side of active, but the stove is only at 500.

Sounds right for a new catalyst, it will be extra responsive for a while.

 

[Highbeam]

You may as well stop measuring stove top temps. Bk stoves don't work the same way as noncats.

I reset my oem cat meter to the bottom of the inactive range when cold a few times before losing confidence in it and buying a replacement from Condar with actual numbers! Mine was never more than 1/4" off but it wandered.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

You may as well stop measuring stove top temps. Bk stoves don't work the same way as noncats.

I reset my oem cat meter to the bottom of the inactive range when cold a few times before losing confidence in it and buying a replacement from Condar with actual numbers! Mine was never more than 1/4" off but it wandered.

Are you saying the needle would vary by 1/4" when the thermometer was at 70 degrees?

My BK thermometer is consistent at room temperature but very, very, slow to respond to changing temperatures. Tonight I had a blazing firebox and the thermometer hadn't budged but a gnats eyelash from room temperature. I engaged the cat and it started glowing immediately. In a few moments the entire cat was glowing cherry red and the thermometer wasn't but 10% of the way through the inactive zone. Eventually it made it 75% of the way through the active zone even though I had the air supply nearly closed.

Is your Condar thermometer faster responding than your BK thermometer?

 

[webby3650]

Are you saying the needle would vary by 1/4" when the thermometer was at 70 degrees?

My BK thermometer is consistent at room temperature but very, very, slow to respond to changing temperatures. Tonight I had a blazing firebox and the thermometer hadn't budged but a gnats eyelash from room temperature. I engaged the cat and it started glowing immediately. In a few moments the entire cat was glowing cherry red and the thermometer wasn't but 10% of the way through the inactive zone. Eventually it made it 75% of the way through the active zone even though I had the air supply nearly closed.

Is your Condar thermometer faster responding than your BK thermometer?

You are able to engage the cat prematurely because it’s still new. Once you get some age on it, you won’t find it so easy to jump the gun like that.

 

[bigaar]

I don't know any other way to empty ash. I've tried the bucket thing, and have made up my mind that anyone who claims it can be done without dusting up your house must have lower standards of cleanliness than me. Most folks do.

My favorite system is the grate style, used by companies like Jotul. In this system, the ash pan is sealed off by a door, and part of the firebox air space. Ash naturally falls thru the grate as the fire burns and you load, and you just empty it 2x per week. All of the coals stay in the box. The down side to this system is a little safety, in that a broken ash door or gasket will turn your stove into a forge, but those of us with them have just learned to always empty the pan BEFORE loading, to negate this issue.

The BK system is better than none, though. Keeping the coals in the stove, while trying to get ash into the pan, is a challenge. But I found a 4" round cast iron shower grate that fits into the space of my plug. I just pull the plug, drop the grate in its place, and rake the ash and coals across it. The coals stay in the stove, the ash goes into the pan. No plume, as the chimney draws any dust up. It's a very clean system.

Is your ash pan properly situated directly underneath your ash plug?

I know on my ashford, a lot of ash misses the pan because it's not centered at all under the plug. I think I have heard you mention this yourself? How are you getting around that?

 

[Ashful]

Is your ash pan properly situated directly underneath your ash plug?

I know on my ashford, a lot of ash misses the pan because it's not centered at all under the plug. I think I have heard you mention this yourself? How are you getting around that?

BK screwed up on a small batch of early Ashford 30.1’s, and the ash plug ended up over the rear edge of the pan. The two I bought were in this lot.

They came up with a retrofit fix for this, a drawer with longer slides, and it is recently thru all of the required testing. I just received mine, and will be installing them soon.

I got the impression this issue was caught and resolved very quickly, and so there should only be a few stoves out with this issue, but perhaps you got one of them. If so, I’d suggest you call or message BKVP, he is very responsive to issues like this. BK stands behind their product!

 

[Highbeam]

Are you saying the needle would vary by 1/4" when the thermometer was at 70 degrees?

My BK thermometer is consistent at room temperature but very, very, slow to respond to changing temperatures. Tonight I had a blazing firebox and the thermometer hadn't budged but a gnats eyelash from room temperature. I engaged the cat and it started glowing immediately. In a few moments the entire cat was glowing cherry red and the thermometer wasn't but 10% of the way through the inactive zone. Eventually it made it 75% of the way through the active zone even though I had the air supply nearly closed.

Is your Condar thermometer faster responding than your BK thermometer?

When the stove was ice cold, 70 degrees or whatever room temp was, the meter should point to the bottom of the inactive range. I would notice it wasn't doing that so per the manual I would reset it to the right place. Use it for awhile and then I would again notice that the cold stove would result in the wrong indication. So I would move it again. Back and forth usually, just 1/4" or so. I'm a swiss engineer and this was just too irritating. My condar flue temperature meter always goes back to the same cold location after many years.

I think condar makes the BK cat meters and they make a cat meter with numbers and a colored active/inactive zone. Like 30$. I replaced the OEM BK and so far the new meter has been consistent.

The steel cats that you and I are using are very reactive and turn orange quickly when they light off. Great fun. My very well used cat still likes to glow like a child. I do notice that sometimes during initial warm up the flue temperatures are quite hot, hot enough to engage the cat, but the cat meter is not moving yet or way below the active line. It usually happens when the fresh fire is more in the rear than in the front of the fuel load and just hasn't heated the cat area yet. Noticing this and since I want to engage the cat as soon as possible for several reasons, I engage when either the flue temps or the cat meter indicate that the fire is hot enough.

I am happy with the condar cat meter. It is probably just a BK meter with actual numbers but it is working well. Maybe the old BK meter was just dead after so many hours of use.

 

[black smoke signals]

Over time the gasket becomes compressed. The handle may still feel tight (camminng over) but you should still check with the dollar.

Start of a new season I adjusted the handle to increase tension on the gasket. When you adjust the handle I found out the back side of the latch was hitting the adjuster nut on the handle latch not letting the door latch cam over all the way shut.I then replaced the door gasket and adjusted the latch.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

You are able to engage the cat prematurely because it’s still new. Once you get some age on it, you won’t find it so easy to jump the gun like that.

My take on this is it's not that I'm engaging the cat prematurely, it's that the thermometer is very slow to respond to actual changes in temperatures. Regardless of the age of the cat, if it's glowing bright orange it's 1000 degrees or more. But after a couple minutes of this, the thermometer downstream is still reading in the first 10% of the "inactive" zone. So it's not the newness of the cat causing this, it's the natural time delay built into the thermometer.

I would like an option to purchase a high quality digital thermometer using a high temperature thermocouple (vs. thermistor) and a large display with programmable alarms. I'm not impressed with the one offered by Condar for a number of reasons. There is simply too much thermal mass in the bi-metallic design of the OEM and Condar dial thermometers and the bi-metallic portion must not be in very good thermal contact with the protective sheath.

 

[webby3650]

My take on this is it's not that I'm engaging the cat prematurely, it's that the thermometer is very slow to respond to actual changes in temperatures. Regardless of the age of the cat, if it's glowing bright orange it's 1000 degrees or more. But after a couple minutes of this, the thermometer downstream is still reading in the first 10% of the "inactive" zone. So it's not the newness of the cat causing this, it's the natural time delay built into the thermometer.

I would like an option to purchase a high quality digital thermometer using a high temperature thermocouple (vs. thermistor) and a large display with programmable alarms. I'm not impressed with the one offered by Condar for a number of reasons. There is simply too much thermal mass in the bi-metallic design of the OEM and Condar dial thermometers and the bi-metallic portion must not be in very good thermal contact with the protective sheath.

Ive had a bunch of new cats. A few steel, a few ceramic. They all respond way faster when new. I would close the bypass very early like you do, you may find that later in its life this doesn’t work as well. That was my point.

I am aware that there is quite a bit of lag time in the thermometer, I can judge the the stove pretty well though, I know when to close the bypass. I don’t pay much attention the therm anymore honestly.

 

[BKVP]

Ive had a bunch of new cats. A few steel, a few ceramic. They all respond way faster when new. I would close the bypass very early like you do, you may find that later in its life this doesn’t work as well. That was my point.

I am aware that there is quite a bit of lag time in the thermometer, I can judge the the stove pretty well though, I know when to close the bypass. I don’t pay much attention the therm anymore honestly.

Webby you are indeed correct. Regulators and test agencies are well aware of the hyperactivity of new combustors. EPA's method 28R test protocol requires 50 hours of aging prior to emissions testing.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Ive had a bunch of new cats. A few steel, a few ceramic. They all respond way faster when new.

Good for stating the obvious. But I don't see how that relates to the slow response of the thermometer. That was the only point I made. Everyone here is well aware that new cats are more reactive than old ones.

The very first fire I had it was obvious it would be foolish to follow the instructions in the Blaze King Owner's Manual (which instruct to wait until the needle is in the "active zone"). I've never seen a thermometer take so much time to react to increasing temperatures. It's like the bi-metallic portion is not in thermal contact with the exterior of the thermometer. Like you, I ignore it during the lighting phase because the view through the window is a much more reliable way to tell whether it's hot enough.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Regulators and test agencies are well aware of the hyperactivity of new combustors. EPA's method 28R test protocol requires 50 hours of aging prior to emissions testing.

My combustor has well over 50 hours on it! How do you "age" the combustors in only 50 hours?

 

[webby3650]

Good for stating the obvious. But I don't see how that relates to the slow response of the thermometer. That was the only point I made. Everyone here is well aware that new cats are more reactive than old ones.

The very first fire I had it was obvious it would be foolish to follow the instructions in the Blaze King Owner's Manual (which instruct to wait until the needle is in the "active zone"). I've never seen a thermometer take so much time to react to increasing temperatures. It's like the bi-metallic portion is not in thermal contact with the exterior of the thermometer. Like you, I ignore it during the lighting phase because the view through the window is a much more reliable way to tell whether it's hot enough.

If I’m not mistaken, this is your first BK, and it’s new. Correct?

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

If I’m not mistaken, this is your first BK, and it’s new. Correct?

And your point is?

 

[Marshy]

Good for stating the obvious. But I don't see how that relates to the slow response of the thermometer. That was the only point I made. Everyone here is well aware that new cats are more reactive than old ones.

The very first fire I had it was obvious it would be foolish to follow the instructions in the Blaze King Owner's Manual (which instruct to wait until the needle is in the "active zone"). I've never seen a thermometer take so much time to react to increasing temperatures. It's like the bi-metallic portion is not in thermal contact with the exterior of the thermometer. Like you, I ignore it during the lighting phase because the view through the window is a much more reliable way to tell whether it's hot enough.

There's likely other factors for BK advising the cat probe reach the active zone before throwing the bypass. Maybe BKVP will elaborate on those other facts but until then I will go out on a limb and guess it has more to do with getting the rest of the stove up to temp to maintain a long clean burn without risk of stalling the cat initially. Maybe they figure it gives the surface moisture a chance to evaporate and bypass the cat.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

There's likely other factors for BK advising the cat probe reach the active zone before throwing the bypass. Maybe BKVP will elaborate on those other facts but until then I will go out on a limb and guess it has more to do with getting the rest of the stove up to temp to maintain a long clean burn without risk of stalling the cat initially. Maybe they figure it gives the surface moisture a chance to evaporate and bypass the cat.

Are you advising that I follow the instructions in the manual and wait for the needle to enter the active zone? I'm afraid I would be replacing the bypass gasket three times a season if I did that.