2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

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No liner, just dumping it into the chimney clay liner (is this what you are calling the 'crock'?) What size is the clay liner? Square or round? Even with an 8" round clay liner, I would still run a 6" insulated stainless liner rather than try to use an exterior masonry chimney.
Do you mean run an insulated 6" stainless liner inside their chimney vice no SS liner in an exterior chimney?
Thats kind of the reason why highbeam and I are going back and forth. What's the appropriate side chimney?
I already know what BK would say.
 
Woody
. 25' of chimney is within the normal range for most stoves, but definitely something you want to consider since it's hard to install a pipe damper on an insert, unless you would leave the surround off. Generally, cat stoves will allow you to cut the air further, and control strong draft better, Woody educate me on the leaving the surround off please! Control strong draft better explain this too please.
 
Do you mean run an insulated 6" stainless liner inside their chimney
Sorry if I was unclear. Yes, I would run an insulated liner inside the masonry. I don't know what would be involved to install it, depending on what size and shape clay liner they have now, but I sure wouldn't try to run a modern stove on an external masonry chimney, in Northern MI. That would be an absolute creosote mess. They may have been getting away with it, with an old stove dumping a ton of heat up the chimney. I don't think anything that old could have been a cat stove, could it?
 
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Sorry if I was unclear. Yes, I would run an insulated liner inside the masonry. I don't know what would be involved to install it, depending on what size and shape clay liner they have now, but I sure wouldn't try to run a modern stove on an external masonry chimney, in Northern MI. That would be an absolute creosote mess. They may have been getting away with it, with an old stove dumping a ton of heat up the chimney. I don't think anything that old could have been a cat stove, could it?
They had an old BK King stove. They have a cat in them as well. She said it was circa '80's model. Idk if they maintained the cat after all those years or not though. I'm sure it still put a lot of heat up the chimney compared to the new stoves.
 
@Marshy, we have 3' rise and 4' horizontal out to the chimney. The chimney is made of a crock, surrounded by cinder block, surrounded by brick. Are you saying you think that might be a problem for the new Blazee King to draft properly?
I have my own conclusions, from my own experience, having run catalytic stoves on chimneys both masonry and insulated stainless, with vastly different heights. I don't benefit from the vast customer feedback that Chris (BKVP) sees, but I have pushed more cords of wood thru two different stoves on three different chimneys in five years than almost any individual on this site.

1. It is perfectly safe and possible to run a catalytic stove (yes, even your BK) on an appropriately sized masonry chimney.
2. Yes, there are more issues with cooling, but if you're burning clean with dry wood, this is not a show-stopper.
3. You will be more limited in how low you can burn, because of the aforementioned cooling issue. Weaker draft, and draft stall due to low flue temps will be your limiting factors.
4. You will be more limited in outdoor temperatures. I can burn my lined and insulated chimneys at much warmer temperatures, than I could with the clay tile in masonry chimney.
 
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Bold wood burning statement there Ashful. Very bold. ::-)

But I agree with most of the rest of your post. :)
 
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Thanks for all the feedback on the steam vs. smoke question. The answer's still above my pay grade but it's good to know I'm not the only one who can't see the difference.
 
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having run catalytic stoves on chimneys both masonry and insulated stainless, with vastly different heights.
1. It is perfectly safe and possible to run a catalytic stove (yes, even your BK) on an appropriately sized masonry chimney.
But you didn't actually run your BKs on a masonry chimney, right?
Now, it sounds like they have a two-story chimney, so they might be able to do it, but I would avoid it if at all possible.
 
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Bold wood burning statement there Ashful. Very bold. ::-)

But I agree with most of the rest of your post. :)
Yes, I'm almost trolling for abuse, there. But boiler operators aside, there aren't many who have pushed 10 full cords of wood thru their wood stove(s) in a single year.
 
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Yes, I'm almost trolling for abuse, there. But boiler operators aside, there aren't many who have pushed 10 full cords of wood thru their wood stove(s) in a single year.
At my current rate I see myself burning my normal amount, 6-7 full cord. Still a fair amount away from 10 cord like you though.
 
And here I thought BK's were supposed to save wood. ;lol
 
So we need to clarify. Real cords or east coast face cords?
 
So I know Ashful is heating a small castle, but what are you heating Marshy that you stuff 6-7 full cords through a year?
 
Yes, the crock is clay. The chimney is rectangle. Would have to get up on the roof to check how thick the clay is and it's pure ice here this week so that might take some time. I hear the concerns and we are certainly taking them into consiseration. No point in buying a stove that isn't right for our house. What makes the king have these requirements? The fact that it is a cat stove?
 
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Yes, I'm almost trolling for abuse, there. But boiler operators aside, there aren't many who have pushed 10 full cords of wood thru their wood stove(s) in a single year.
Gotta ask, WHY so much wood? I did about 5-6 cord in our old Baker.. Awesome stove btw. I wanted to get down to 3 cord if I could to keep up on seasoning. Reason, I like to run fairly seasoned wood. I cut half/buy half. No one sells real seasoned wood here in Pittsburgh. The suppliers think seasoned is something thats sits for 3 months. I got behind so once I'm done with this season, I'm back to running 1 year old wood. :(
 
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What makes the king have these requirements? The fact that it is a cat stove?

It doesn't really have any special requirements. The king has an 8" flue collar so no part of the flue system can be smaller than that. It needs 15' of chimney height including 24" vertical above the stove before any bends. Before you make a decision, read the manual and see for yourself how "normal" the requirements are. The manual is very good and the requirements are easy to comprehend.

Very efficient cat stoves like the king emit smaller amounts relatively cool exhaust so they won't tolerate a substandard chimney as well as other less efficient designs. Your experience will be best with a warm, tall, insulated, straight, chimney of 8" all the way up.
 
He's pretty sick in the head..he does this not out of need but for pure fun.
lol... best answer yet. I should put that in my sig line, with your permission.

I'll try to summarize several years (somewhat painful experience) in a few sentences. Yes, the house is a little on the large side by 18th century standards, not so much by today's McMansion standards, but about half of it is completely un-insulated mud-stacked stone. The windows and doors date to the 1773 expansion of the house, but I do have storm windows on the windows, so radiant loss is not all that bad but they are a little drafty (esp. the doors). Total area I'm heating is about 8100 sq.ft., but of that total, only 4500'ish square feet is being heated by wood (hence the high oil and electron use).

I do this work of felling, processing, and handling firewood under the guise of saving money, or at least that's how I sell the time investment to my wife, but I believe it has cost me at least as much in stoves and equipment as I have saved in heating oil. While it's a poor use of my time, if saving money were the sole goal, I believe it's good for the mind, body, and soul.

I run two stoves 24/7, and each is installed in a large cooking fireplace (see my avatar) on an exterior exposure wall. The first stoves were Jotul Firelights, and I found they were dumping a very high fraction of the heat they produce into the exterior masonry, by noticing that oil savings were not correlating to my efficiency-corrected wood BTU usage. I also have Flir thermal images showing the exterior stonework of my house being alarmingly hot, over large areas behind each stove. It was during this time, with these stoves, that I hit those 10 cords per year numbers, while my oil usage was simultaneously over 1200 gallons per year. I also noticed that the Jotuls did not have much effect on room temperature, no matter how hard or light I rode them.

So, I switched to the BK Ashfords, being a convective design. I immediately noticed they "feel" better in the house, as they have a much more noticeable effect on room temperature. Significantly, I can get very repeatable 36 hour burn times (I burn mostly oak), and have been able to mark settings on my dial for predictable 12 and 24 hour burns. Being worn out from pushing insane amounts of fuel thru those Jotuls, I've been treating the BK's differently, loading them full on a schedule that suits my work, and letting the oil burner pick up the slack.

I am looking forward to having comparative data, between the Firelights and the Ashfords in this house, but a few factors have confounded me. First, it was very cold the three years I was running the Jotuls, and it has been unusually warm the two years I've had the Ashfords. I'm scaling for HDD's, but there is still error in this for such different conditions (eg. imperfect choice of base temperature). Also, whereas I had expected my oil usage to go up a bit, since I'm burning maybe 40% less wood in the Ashfords, all the data I have so far indicates my oil usage is going DOWN (yes, that's scaled to an "average HDD year").

So, that's the story for the few who haven't heard it before. My highest oil usage, since firing up the first Jotul Firelight 12 is 2600 gallons in one year. My highest wood usage in a single year is somewhere over 10 and less than 11 cords, and I believe I burned 1200 gallons that particular winter. I believe my current usage will fall in somewhere over 6 but less than 8 cords, with 1000 gallons of oil per year.
 
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I have a question along these lines; well...possibly along these lines. We have been running our new Princess insert for about a month now. It seems to be working great, I can run it all the way on low without it stalling, and it puts out good heat. The problem is how hot is too hot on the cat probe? I know most say to ignore it as long as it is in the active zone, ours goes way beyond the active zone.

In the picture, the needle made it to the "c" on .com before I turned it all the way to low. It had been running medium/low for over an hour when it started getting up this high. When cold, the needle is below the inactive zone.View attachment 188710 View attachment 188711
Normal? What would happen if I left this on high? Using an IR thermometer a few inches to the right of the cat probe, I am hitting almost 800^F. This is under the louver/trim piece that sits on top.

The thermostat knob is secure, door and glass gaskets are tight. I am using mixed hardwood that is 16%-18%, fully loaded stove with 4"-6" splits. The bypass gasket is tight on 3 sides and only snug on the 3rd (dollar bill won't fall out on its own, but I can pull it out).

I am also seeing low burn times on a full load. ~14 hours overnight last night. 22ft insulated liner, 35^F outside, slight breeze. This is on low with the fan running on low.

What should I be looking for?

Just wanted to follow up on this incase it helps someone. There are a lot of folks on this forum that have provided a vast amount of information and for that, I am great-full. it has helped me run this stove better over that last few months.

It turns out that my issues where stemming from a bad cat probe. After adjusting it and inspecting, I found the spring was barely sticking to the shaft; causing it to suddenly change position as it was heating/cooling. Gently pushing on the needle would cause it to rotate and watching it for a while would reveal the sudden movement. New probe = zero problems. Much easier to run and a heck of a lot more piece of mind.

Just something else to check if you are having erratic performance.
 
Just wanted to follow up on this incase it helps someone. There are a lot of folks on this forum that have provided a vast amount of information and for that, I am great-full. it has helped me run this stove better over that last few months.

It turns out that my issues where stemming from a bad cat probe. After adjusting it and inspecting, I found the spring was barely sticking to the shaft; causing it to suddenly change position as it was heating/cooling. Gently pushing on the needle would cause it to rotate and watching it for a while would reveal the sudden movement. New probe = zero problems. Much easier to run and a heck of a lot more piece of mind.

Just something else to check if you are having erratic performance.

So did you get a new probe meter from BK or aftermarket from condar? I've had to reset my spring a few times so that the cold reading is at the bottom of the inactive range. I would also like a new one so that I can get a condar one with numbers!
 
So did you get a new probe meter from BK or aftermarket from condar? I've had to reset my spring a few times so that the cold reading is at the bottom of the inactive range. I would also like a new one so that I can get a condar one with numbers!

Both. My dealer ordered a new one that took quite a while to arrive. In the meantime, I bought the Condar probe. I am a numbers guy and have to say; much better seeing a number.

I checked both probes to be accurate at room temp and somewhat accurate at 900^F. At least they are in the right range. With the new probes, the cat temp hasn't gone above 1500^F and I have run the stove much higher than before (because I thought I was melting the cat, ceramic and all ;lol).
 
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So I know Ashful is heating a small castle, but what are you heating Marshy that you stuff 6-7 full cords through a year?
I have a ~1800 sqft ranch house on a full basement. The basement is uninsulated and has a walkout man door and a 8 foot (insulated) garage door. I've run this King on high >95% of the time since I installed it this past fall. Im going to build 2 insulated 4' panels this weekend to install in the garage door frame on the outside of the door to reduce my heat loss. I was able to heat this house with my old stove to a higher temperature but had terrible burn times.
 
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