2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[Marshy]

It is important to correct your mistakes because they are misleading potential owners. You erroneously state that nothing larger than an 8" chimney is allowed. That's flat out wrong.

Please quote me or provide a post number. Ive never stated "that nothing larger than an 8" chimney is allowed." In fact, I've stated it's the minimum and standard practicen is nothing smaller than the flue collar, and while larger is OK it can cause it's own issues if it's too large.
Comprehension is lacking in your behalf I believe. If you can cite where I've stated this then I'll own up to the mistake but I don't believe I've ever started that.

 

[Gotrek]

So close

 

[Highbeam]

What I said was the King requires an 8" flue/chimney. I happened to say round but it doesn't matter as long as the area is equivalent. The 8" chimney and flue connector is a requirement on the King, not a recommendation.

Here's one. The other was the time that you actually said it had to be 8" round! and then went back and edited it. It is absolutely false that an 8" masonry chimney is required on the king. Quit saying it.

Dont tell me to "read the manual" then make a false claim like "the unlined masonry connection is "typical" installation". That is not in the manual.

And of course, this turns out to be quite true as well. It is in the manual, even the screenshot you posted.

I'm not trying to help you. I'm trying to help the guys that have masonry chimneys that want to use a king avoid being misled by you.

 

[Highbeam]

I've stated it's the minimum and standard practicen is nothing smaller than the flue collar, and while larger is OK it can cause it's own issues if it's too large.

Now that sounds better. You keep squirming around. Hold still with this one.

 

[Highbeam]

He's right, the manual says go ahead and dump it into a masonry chimney, and they say nothing about the size. However, with low BK flue temps and the need for taller stacks to avoid smoke smell in some cases, I doubt that anyone who has read up on these stoves would attempt install a BK without a full liner. So, yeah, he's no help here.

Many have. Maybe it's a stepping stone until one can afford a nice insulated liner. It is allowed by the manual, that's the point.

 

[YAGER85]

Kuma sequoia does come in an insert model they are awesome i have one check them ot

The Sequoia is a beast!

 

[Woody Stover]

Many have. Maybe it's a stepping stone until one can afford a nice insulated liner.

Hmmm, lessee, with what I know, what would I do? I've got it, I'd buy a Woodstock steel stove and get a free premium stainless liner, insulated, with the money I saved!

 

[Marshy]

Now that sounds better. You keep squirming around. Hold still with this one.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where I said you can't use anything larger than 8"... I'll keep waiting.

He's right, the manual says go ahead and dump it into a masonry chimney, and they say nothing about the size. However, with low BK flue temps and the need for taller stacks to avoid smoke smell in some cases, I doubt that anyone who has read up on these stoves would attempt install a BK without a full liner. So, yeah, he's no help here.

It might surprise you that the BK rep that I spoke with prior to me buying my stove had absolutely no concerns about draft or creosote buildup in my chimney even without an insulated liner. He said "your chimney is about as ideal as it gets".

It wasn't until after I installed it and was disappointed with the heat output that I called and spoke with Chris. He told me they haven't had one customer that was satisfied with the performance of their stove with it hooked to an uninsulated masonry chimney. He said even if I had adequate draft he felt there was risk of creosote buildup due to the large thermal mass of the chimney. Unfortunately I didn't write down the name of the first rep I spoke with! That is why I made strong recommendations for an insulated liner in a masonry chimney and for it to be equivalent to 8" round (minimum).

 

[webby3650]

I'm still waiting for you to show me where I said you can't use anything larger than 8"... I'll keep waiting.


It might surprise you that the BK rep that I spoke with prior to me buying my stove had absolutely no concerns about draft or creosote buildup in my chimney even without an insulated liner. He said "your chimney is about as ideal as it gets".

It wasn't until after I installed it and was disappointed with the heat output that I called and spoke with Chris. He told me they haven't had one customer that was satisfied with the performance of their stove with it hooked to an uninsulated masonry chimney. He said even if I had adequate draft he felt there was risk of creosote buildup due to the large thermal mass of the chimney. Unfortunately I didn't write down the name of the first rep I spoke with! That is why I made strong recommendations for an insulated liner in a masonry chimney and for it to be equivalent to 8" round (minimum).

Ya, reps rarely know very much about operation and performance of the stoves they sell. Most are just salesman and are very helpful if you have an issue, not so much with performance...

 

[fairnorthernlady]

All valid question that I cannot answer. Im sure someone will be along that can help. You can also call BK directly and ask those questions, they have been very responsive every time I have called. I pose those questions because I'm fairly certain the answer to your question is going to be yes, better performance and better efficiency. However, if you are considering the cost of the King (nearly $4K with options) and also need to have a chimney liner installed (another $1-2K) is that still an option? You can go back a handful of pages and read about another member installing a King and having creosote issues (partially myself included) with a non-insulated masonry chimney. Not trying to deter you, just merely providing information and pointing out considerations. The new stoves in general are more draft sensitive and particular attention needs to be given to the chimney to avoid creosote and to get the best performance. They have low flue gas temperatures which increase the risk of creosote in masonry chimneys.

@Marshy, we have 3' rise and 4' horizontal out to the chimney. The chimney is made of a crock, surrounded by cinder block, surrounded by brick. Are you saying you think that might be a problem for the new Blazee King to draft properly?

 

[Marshy]

@Marshy, we have 3' rise and 4' horizontal out to the chimney. The chimney is made of a crock, surrounded by cinder block, surrounded by brick. Are you saying you think that might be a problem for the new Blazee King to draft properly?

Not by itself. Height of your chimney and the size of the hole down though it contribute to draft. Of most concern is the thermal mass of the chimney and the heat lost from the flue gases because the large thermal mass of the masonry. The gas temperature is primarily responsible for the induced draft and if its cooled too much by the masonry then draft can suffer. But of most concern should be creosote buildup.

 

[rdust]

@Marshy, we have 3' rise and 4' horizontal out to the chimney. The chimney is made of a crock, surrounded by cinder block, surrounded by brick. Are you saying you think that might be a problem for the new Blazee King to draft properly?

A 4' horizontal is a bunch! Is it pitched correctly?

Not directed any anyone in particular: Simple life fact, not the info posted in a manual where the manufacture wants to sell you a stove. For ANY modern stove an insulated liner or class A chimney matching the size of the flue outlet will give you the best performance. Every year we see unhappy posters attempting to run a modern stove on a sub par chimney with "seasoned" wood. "It's the same chimney and wood I used with my old stove it worked great".

Chance are any masonary chimney that has been in service for years will fail an inspection due to cracks in the mortar joints or clay tiles.

Running a high performance stove on a sub par chimney is like running a high performance engine on a 2 inch exhaust. It just don't work.

 

[kf6hap]

Gotrek

Beautiful install you are going to enjoy very much for many years.

 

[Squisher]

I've cleaned a handful of BK's now that vent through a clay lined masonry chimney. Put it this way, as a new sweep, so far I've cleaned more BK's vented through a masonry chimney than ones that are not. So I'd deduce that in my area atleast, it's a common way to install.

 

[Marshy]

I've cleaned a handful of BK's now that vent through a clay lined masonry chimney. Put it this way, as a new sweep, so far I've cleaned more BK's vented through a masonry chimney than ones that are not. So I'd deduce that in my area atleast, it's a common way to install.

With or without an insulated stainless liner? What were the results, creosote or clean? Are they external to the house or centralized in a chase way?

 

[Squisher]

When I say vented into a clay lined masonry chimney I mean just that. No ss liner. I've seen decent ones, and crappy ones now. We all here know I think that interior chimneys are superior to exterior. Espescially masonry ones.

But all things equal it would be my opinion that a ss liner or a class a chimney is going to stay cleaner than masonry. As a sweep a classA or a liner is a slam dunk. Usually they are cleaner, and are easier to clean. But I burned for the first 40 years of my life with various old smokeys all dumped into clay lined masonry chimneys. Never had an issue.

I wouldn't hesitate to burn and vent through a appropriately sized clay lined masonry chimney. But, I do feel a proper ss liner or class A is superior.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm still waiting for you to show me where I said you can't use anything larger than 8"... I'll keep waiting.

Comprehension marshy. In America, when you say an 8" flue is required that means you can't use a 7" and you can't use a 9". You didn't say 8" minimum until your latest attempt at getting your story right. The manual does not require an 8" flue so I corrected you for the benefit of all the folks trying to meet or exceed the minimum requirements.

 

[Gotrek]

And done!



Don't mind the structural brick holding the broken trim...


Going to fire it as soon as insurance stuff is done.

 

[lsucet]

And done!

View attachment 192522

Don't mind the structural brick holding the broken trim...

Congratulations, look awesome

 

[Marshy]

Comprehension marshy. In America, when you say an 8" flue is required that means you can't use a 7" and you can't use a 9". You didn't say 8" minimum until your latest attempt at getting your story right. The manual does not require an 8" flue so I corrected you for the benefit of all the folks trying to meet or exceed the minimum requirements.

You did not correct chit. What is the required size chimney for the King highbeam? What does the manual says? It clearly requires the chimney connector to be 8". Why don't you tell us what the size of the chimney needs to be? Quote the King manual.

You erroneously state that nothing larger than an 8" chimney is allowed. That's flat out wrong.

Please show me where I stated this? Still waiting.

From the princess insert manual:

"We recommend that the inside your chimney be at least the same diameter as the flue of your stove. If you
plan to use an existing masonry chimney, be sure it is free of cracks and loose joints."

So if you applied this from the princess to the king the required chimney size is 50 square inches (8" round equivalent). Isn't that what I said? Why doesn't it say the words minimum or no less than?

Maybe because too large of a chimney flue can cause poor draft.

 

[Marshy]

Here's one. The other was the time that you actually said it had to be 8" round! and then went back and edited it. It is absolutely false that an 8" masonry chimney is required on the king. Quit saying it.



And of course, this turns out to be quite true as well. It is in the manual, even the screenshot you posted.

I'm not trying to help you. I'm trying to help the guys that have masonry chimneys that want to use a king avoid being misled by you.

I'm not trying to mislead them. My stove is hooked to a masonry chimney without an insulated liner! Fortunately it runs through the center of the house in its own chase way. I felt mislead about how important an insulated liner is for these stoves. For the folks that have an exterior masonry chimney without an insulated stainless liner they are being significantly mislead by you and by anyone else who tells them no worries without that SS insulate liner. Poor Ray has moisture and creosote flowing in his thimble and down his wall. I'd be pissed! You know his dealers reply when he asked him about it? Run it hotter!

 

[Jason763]

And done!

View attachment 192522

Don't mind the structural brick holding the broken trim...


Going to fire it as soon as insurance stuff is done.

What model is your stove? Looks nice

 

[Gotrek]

Scirroco 30.1 in full satin trim
I bought it site unseen save for pictures and its perfect.

 

[Squisher]

Gotrek. That looks fantastic. Congratulations.

 

[Woody Stover]

@Marshy, we have 3' rise and 4' horizontal out to the chimney. The chimney is made of a crock, surrounded by cinder block, surrounded by brick. Are you saying you think that might be a problem for the new Blazee King to draft properly?

No liner, just dumping it into the chimney clay liner (is this what you are calling the 'crock'?) What size is the clay liner? Square or round? Even with an 8" round clay liner, I would still run a 6" insulated stainless liner rather than try to use an exterior masonry chimney, especially for a cat stove.