2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[Ashful]

Can someone explain how the bypass works on an ashford 30.1. Sometimes when I close the bypass handle I feel the cam over action and sometimes I don't. It's driving me crazy.

Two things seem to cause this:

1. Debris getting on the cam. If the problem is intermittent, this is likely the cause. Pull pipe and vacuum chamber behind cat.

2. Adjustment. Over time, gasket compresses or shifts within retainers. See adjustment procedure in manual. If problem is constant, this may be the cause.

 

[rwhite]

Thermal mass. It's way easier to keep something at a set temperature than to heat it from cold. Your house is holding a lot of the heat, so the stove doesn't have to work as hard.

Thats what i figured. Just never got to experience it with my other stove and 1940's house. Insulation is a wonderful thing!

 

[Highbeam]

About an 1800 square feet ranch. Stove is in the living room about 15ft from the end of the house with the MB at the other end of the house. It's very well insulated. Even with propane i was only using about 65 gals/month to heat the place. I do have some operating questions though. My thermometer has the numbers and so far it seems that I run the following temps:
#1- 250-300
#2- 3-400
#3-4-500
#4- 5-600
I set it to 1.25 last night around 9:00. At 6:00 this morning its still active, stove top at 290 (IR gun). This was a load I put it at 11:00 yesterday afternoon. Around 15 hours into a burn I turn the thermostat up to 2-3 for 1/2 hour or so to get the wood burning again then turn it back down. Is this fiddling with it to much? It seems over the course of the week (maybe because everything is heating up evenly in the house) that my burn times keep increasing. 1st load was around 12 hours, then I was getting 15, and the last few loads are increasing as well.

Also remember that the stat reads and tries to control stove temperature in a spot down on the back of the stove which can be different than the stove top temp and much different than the temperature of the stove top temp right above the cat. With time you will find a setting that keeps the house very comfortable and just leave it there for the entire burn. When you find that setting, mark it or remember it if your stat has a graduated label.

 

[Tar12]

About an 1800 square feet ranch. Stove is in the living room about 15ft from the end of the house with the MB at the other end of the house. It's very well insulated. Even with propane i was only using about 65 gals/month to heat the place. I do have some operating questions though. My thermometer has the numbers and so far it seems that I run the following temps:
#1- 250-300
#2- 3-400
#3-4-500
#4- 5-600
I set it to 1.25 last night around 9:00. At 6:00 this morning its still active, stove top at 290 (IR gun). This was a load I put it at 11:00 yesterday afternoon. Around 15 hours into a burn I turn the thermostat up to 2-3 for 1/2 hour or so to get the wood burning again then turn it back down. Is this fiddling with it to much? It seems over the course of the week (maybe because everything is heating up evenly in the house) that my burn times keep increasing. 1st load was around 12 hours, then I was getting 15, and the last few loads are increasing as well.

Thats wonderful!

 

[ohiojoe13]

Two things seem to cause this:

1. Debris getting on the cam. If the problem is intermittent, this is likely the cause. Pull pipe and vacuum chamber behind cat.

2. Adjustment. Over time, gasket compresses or shifts within retainers. See adjustment procedure in manual. If problem is constant, this may be the cause.

OK I pulled the pipe and everything seems to be operating like it should.
The only thing I notice is that the the bypass plate shifts when it cams over. I don't know if it's supposed to do that or not. I did the dollar bill test several times. I can pull it out without ripping but it does have some resistance.
Also can I put some kind of lube on the rod that lower and raises the bypass plate ?

 

[kf6hap]

High temp never seize.

 

[ohiojoe13]

High temp never seize.

Thank you. I put some never seize on and also adjusted the bypass to make it a little tighter.

 

[volunbeer]

1 week into the install. Drive is getting 15-17 hour burns on red fir. Thermostat is set about (1.25) and the house is cooking. 79 degrees and 68 in the bedrooms. High teens outside. I'm gonna be in shorts and flip flops soon.

We had ours installed on the 1st of this month and I am still trying to figure out the real long/slow burn. One thing I have learned is that I cannot have the fan on (even on lowest setting) if I try to dial it way down and we are burning mostly fir, ponderosa, and some tamarack or the cat will go inactive. I dialed it back last night and this morning, in between excitement from the kids, I noted that a few pieces of wood did not appear to have burned on the edges. Guessing I did not burn it hot enough before I dialed it back. No big deal - turned the thermostat up and it was roaring away again and the cat needle was still at about 30%.

My dad and I are studying how to move the two air returns in the den where the stove is to the ceiling. Might do this in the spring and instead of using the fan on the stove to move heat we can just run the fan on the central air system for the basement and main floor. One is in our bedroom on the floor, but we can reverse it into the den - the other is on the floor of the den. Both of them would pull all the hot air off the ceiling of the den pretty easily. Anyone have any thoughts or experience doing something like this?

 

[kf6hap]

If you have a wall that is not structural a 2X4 wall "bay" can be used as a return duct. Remove any fireblock, if present. This assume you have a crawl space and an attic. Sawzall out the top and bottom and you have a 2X4X16 wall duct! Use large floor register "boots" to convert the top and bottom from square to round to connect wireflex ducting. If the return is already in the ceiling put a ceiling return air grille in.

 

[rwhite]

We had ours installed on the 1st of this month and I am still trying to figure out the real long/slow burn. One thing I have learned is that I cannot have the fan on (even on lowest setting) if I try to dial it way down and we are burning mostly fir, ponderosa, and some tamarack or the cat will go inactive. I dialed it back last night and this morning, in between excitement from the kids, I noted that a few pieces of wood did not appear to have burned on the edges. Guessing I did not burn it hot enough before I dialed it back. No big deal - turned the thermostat up and it was roaring away again and the cat needle was still at about 30%.

My dad and I are studying how to move the two air returns in the den where the stove is to the ceiling. Might do this in the spring and instead of using the fan on the stove to move heat we can just run the fan on the central air system for the basement and main floor. One is in our bedroom on the floor, but we can reverse it into the den - the other is on the floor of the den. Both of them would pull all the hot air off the ceiling of the den pretty easily. Anyone have any thoughts or experience doing something like this?

I don't run my fan at all. A ceiling fan running in reverse is much better at moving air then a stove can. Might check codes before moving vents. I think you can do it but they have to have a fire break built in so that they close if a fire occurs. I have ran the stove low enough to go inactive. I just turned it up for 1/2 hour or so then back down. I'm slowly finding the spot to keep the house at 75.

What part of East Washington are you from? I'm just across the border In Winchester.

 

[tarzan]

I don't run my fan at all. A ceiling fan running in reverse is much better at moving air then a stove can. Might check codes before moving vents. I think you can do it but they have to have a fire break built in so that they close if a fire occurs. I have ran the stove low enough to go inactive. I just turned it up for 1/2 hour or so then back down. I'm slowly finding the spot to keep the house at 75.

What part of East Washington are you from? I'm just across the border In Winchester.

It's all relative. What works best for some may not for others.

For me the stove fans work better than ceiling fans, floor fans, no fans, etc.

If someone turns the ceiling fan on in the stove room at my house (either direction) the stove room will heat up while the rest of the house cools. Admittedly, it sounds crazy and I can't figure out why it does but it does.

 

[Ashful]

We had ours installed on the 1st of this month and I am still trying to figure out the real long/slow burn. One thing I have learned is that I cannot have the fan on (even on lowest setting) if I try to dial it way down and we are burning mostly fir, ponderosa, and some tamarack or the cat will go inactive. I dialed it back last night and this morning, in between excitement from the kids, I noted that a few pieces of wood did not appear to have burned on the edges. Guessing I did not burn it hot enough before I dialed it back. No big deal - turned the thermostat up and it was roaring away again and the cat needle was still at about 30%.

My dad and I are studying how to move the two air returns in the den where the stove is to the ceiling. Might do this in the spring and instead of using the fan on the stove to move heat we can just run the fan on the central air system for the basement and main floor. One is in our bedroom on the floor, but we can reverse it into the den - the other is on the floor of the den. Both of them would pull all the hot air off the ceiling of the den pretty easily. Anyone have any thoughts or experience doing something like this?

Surprised the stove fan affects (or effects, as it were) cat stall. The fan has two oft-mentioned effects:

1. It cools t'stat, and therefore causes it to open a little more, for the same knob setting. This shortens burn time, for the same knob setting.

2. It cools the cat probe (maybe only some models), which can make it appear that the cat is inactive, when it is actually active.

On moving air, using the HVAC system has seldom worked for posters whose air handler is in a colder space, such as basement or attic. It has worked much better for those whose air handler is located within their heated envelope.

More of is move air with a ceiling fan or two. No added heat loss!

 

[Poindexter]

OK I pulled the pipe and everything seems to be operating like it should.
The only thing I notice is that the the bypass plate shifts when it cams over. I don't know if it's supposed to do that or not. I did the dollar bill test several times. I can pull it out without ripping but it does have some resistance.
Also can I put some kind of lube on the rod that lower and raises the bypass plate ?

On my Ashford 30.0 the cam over action pushes the bypass door towards the front of the stove, maybe a quarter inch. I know I drank most of one beer while I did it over and over with the pipe off the collar. I am convinced the door plate moving towards the front of the stove is part of locking the door tighter against the bypass door gasket.

I am sure an engineer could watch it once or twice and explain in ten words or less why it is so. I am a biologist. I had to repeat it over and over. I am confident the door moving as part of the cam over action is a good thing.

When i had mine apart I used the copper anti-seize from Napa ($12 for about a 4oz jar). Permatex I think. I wondered if the nickel based product with the higher anti-seize temp would be better. My local BK manager says the copper Permatex anti-seize is much better than "that gray stuff."

 

[volunbeer]

I don't run my fan at all. A ceiling fan running in reverse is much better at moving air then a stove can. Might check codes before moving vents. I think you can do it but they have to have a fire break built in so that they close if a fire occurs. I have ran the stove low enough to go inactive. I just turned it up for 1/2 hour or so then back down. I'm slowly finding the spot to keep the house at 75.

What part of East Washington are you from? I'm just across the border In Winchester.

I am in the foothills of Mt. Spokane - around 2300' elevation so not too high as far as Spokane area goes. I appreciate all the advice on that and we are going to try a ceiling fan first, but we have blocked areas with arches between the den room and open spaces so the air stays very warm in the den on the ceiling. Would be nice to get some of the air downstairs to the basement. The house has two separate heat/air systems - the upstairs has it's own pump and a propane furnace in the attic (complete waste - have no clue why they did it because the heat rises up there through the house so it rarely kicked on. The ductwork and system on the main floor and basement has one air return upstairs and the rest are in the basement and on the main floor. Our fan kicks on about 3 times an hour for a few minutes for circulation - will study it more as we gain more time with the stove. It is really staying warm in our living space! Very glad that I did not put it down in the basement.

 

[volunbeer]

Surprised fan affects (or effects, as it were) cat stall. The fan has two of-mentioned effects:

1. It cools t'stat, and therefore causes it to open a little more, for the same knob setting. This shortens burn time, for the same knob setting.

2. It cools the cat probe (maybe only some models), which can make it appear that the cat is inactive, when it is actually active.

On moving air, using the HVAC system has seldom worked for posters whose air handler is in a colder space, such as basement or attic. It has worked much better for those whose air handler is located within their heated envelope.

More of is move air with a ceiling fan or two. No added heat loss!

I am experimenting with no fan usage - the cat seems to be running well when it has a full fuel load, but if I try to dial it down below the 3:00 position it runs for a few hours and the cat needle has tanked a few times. Still figuring out how to dial it way back with the wood I am using or we will be opening windows during shoulder season! Thanks for the info.

 

[Ashful]

You sure your wood is dry? Sounds like classic wet wood behavior, if you can't dial back without killing the cat.

 

[webby3650]

On my Ashford 30.0 the cam over action pushes the bypass door towards the front of the stove, maybe a quarter inch. I know I drank most of one beer while I did it over and over with the pipe off the collar. I am convinced the door plate moving towards the front of the stove is part of locking the door tighter against the bypass door gasket.

I am sure an engineer could watch it once or twice and explain in ten words or less why it is so. I am a biologist. I had to repeat it over and over. I am confident the door moving as part of the cam over action is a good thing.

When i had mine apart I used the copper anti-seize from Napa ($12 for about a 4oz jar). Permatex I think. I wondered if the nickel based product with the higher anti-seize temp would be better. My local BK manager says the copper Permatex anti-seize is much better than "that gray stuff."

Or maybe the bypass plate is simply pushed forward as the rod engages the ramp? It doesn't really have a choice here considering it's just laying there. I think you are reading way too far into a very simple design.

 

[Tar12]

I stumbled across a 2010 thread about Condar probes....has anything changed with them?

 

[Highbeam]

I stumbled across a 2010 thread about Condar probes....has anything changed with them?

We only have one choice with flue probe meters. Buy it, use it, trust it.

 

[tarzan]

On my Ashford 30.0 the cam over action pushes the bypass door towards the front of the stove, maybe a quarter inch. I know I drank most of one beer while I did it over and over with the pipe off the collar. I am convinced the door plate moving towards the front of the stove is part of locking the door tighter against the bypass door gasket.

I am sure an engineer could watch it once or twice and explain in ten words or less why it is so. I am a biologist. I had to repeat it over and over. I am confident the door moving as part of the cam over action is a good thing.

When i had mine apart I used the copper anti-seize from Napa ($12 for about a 4oz jar). Permatex I think. I wondered if the nickel based product with the higher anti-seize temp would be better. My local BK manager says the copper Permatex anti-seize is much better than "that gray stuff."

I came up with the theory that the bypass door movement was an ingenious plan to grind, push or otherwise displace anything that fell from above to assure a proper seal.

 

[volunbeer]

You sure your wood is dry? Sounds like classic wet wood behavior, if you can't dial back without killing the cat.

Most of my wood is dry - I have some pieces I have put back on the pile. My intent is to build a lean to off my pole barn or a large wood shed in the Spring so I can keep all the wood as dry as I can for next season. I played with a moisture meter on the first load I brought into the house and it was averaging around 20% on fresh faces for splits. I did not moisture meter the limbs and I have been burning a lot of those cut 18" on avg and 2-3 inches wide. Those are 9 months old and I know that limbs often take longer to dry than splits. The fir and pine splits are dry. The tamarack was 2 years old in the log on a crib - those seemed very dry when I cut them to length and split. Will play around with it and see if that is the issue. If I had it to do over I would have tarped all the wood or stacked a bunch under the deck instead of along the fenceline, but learn this year and do better next year!

 

[Tar12]

It seems to me that I read here where you can determine what your absolute lowest t-stat setting will be with out stalling the cat. And that you can determine this on a cold stove...has my memory failed me? lol

 

[Ashful]

On some BKs (eg. Ashford), you can hear the thermostat click shut. If you do this on a cold stove, then we know your minimum setting must be somewhere above this, but how far above may vary with chimney height and other factors.

 

[kf6hap]

My Ashford 30.1 closes at the 1:00 position when dead cold. The lowest burn position is ~3:00. Below this the cat will go inactive. This position will vary somewhat with the outside air temperature. Each stove and stove situation will be somewhat different.

 

[jetsam]

On some BKs (eg. Ashford), you can hear the thermostat click shut. If you do this on a cold stove, then we know your minimum setting must be somewhere above this, but how far above may vary with chimney height and other factors.

Ashful's 'other factors' sound mysterious because it is actually more complex than you'd think. You will never be able to take a sharpie and mark "minimum" on your thermostat, but you will get a feel for where it is.

The lowest setting will vary from load to load. It isn't a fixed setting because of many factors. It'd be pretty complicated to to wangle it all into a formula, but you get a pretty good feel for it all (especially since a lot of the factors stay reasonably constant day to day sometimes).

If you asked me to set my stove as low as possible without stalling the cat, I'd look at the outside temperature (higher temps mean worse draft), the starting bed of coals (if there isn't one or it is very low, I am gonna have to run hotter, much hotter if the wood's less dry), the dryness of the wood (wetter wood is harder to burn and puts out less heat), the size of the splits (more surface area means more combustion, and lots of tiny splits seem to be able to form a raging inferno even with the air waaay down), how much time I have to babysit the stove (I know that I can turn the air down right away on dry pine, but oak needs a minute of it doesn't have a good coal bed; if either one is wet, you might be in for a lot of babysitting if you don't have an excellent coal bed.)

I'm sure that I'm missing something in there, but it's not coming to mind...

Edit: Missed one of the most important ones for my insert (but this is not nearly as important for a freestanding stove): House temp and weather forecast: If the house starts cool and the temp is dropping, I will be turning the fan on... And now my minimum thermostat setting needs to be higher!

Anyway, that looks like a lot of stuff, but it's a lot more intuitive than is might sound... Just use the stove and you'll get the hang of it.

If it sounds intimidating, know that most people use these stoves without ever knowing about or considering most of (or any of) that stuff, and they get their houses heated too.