2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK) Part 2

[jetsam]

I was only guarding the corpse of a very old, and very dead horse.

It all goes back to grilling. Much easier to grill once they're dead, horses.

 

[Shayne]

I think you've found a solution and are looking for a problem. Have you considered that every stove model has a different thermostat? That even with the same model, some thermostats have a different range of motion as you and I discovered with our princesses? How thermostat setting is NOT directly related to throttle blade setting since there is an intentional bimettalic spring in there? How it doesn't really matter since no two stoves, fuels, operators, chimneys, altitude of operation, humidities, are the same?

I do find it very important to label your thermostat with something so that you can get repeatable results for your stove. For example, I know where to set my stat for the longest burn without stall. You might say that that is my 0%. Whoa!

Got it; there is no sense trying to understand when someone talks about their tstat to understand what amount it is open because 7 8 o'clock settings work for all, or some anyway. There is no sense to try to standardize anything to be consistent for all because there are just too many variables.

Regards

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

It all goes back to grilling. Much easier to grill once they're dead, horses.

So true, what's that old saying, "You can lead a horse to the grill, but you can't make him get on" (or something like that).

OK, back to Blaze King stoves.

Having never inspected one in person, I'm not sure where or how the air intake works. Well I know the basic theory but not the mechanical implementation. I understand the air intake is controlled by the bi-metallic thermostat and the thermostat is controlled by the manual knob and, of course, the temperature. Does this mean that if the stove is on a medium burn and the knob is set to a medium burn, that turning the thermostat knob higher or lower will immediately open or close the air intake to some degree? And that turning the thermostat to full high would open the air intake all the way (at least temporarily until the stove became hotter)?

Has anyone rigged up an air intake indicator or is it possible to visually see how far the air intake is open or closed during a burn?

 

[rdust]

Has anyone rigged up an air intake indicator or is it possible to visually see how far the air intake is open or closed during a burn?

You can pull the t-stat cover and visually see the operation of the "throttle" blade.

 

[Highbeam]

So true, what's that old saying, "You can lead a horse to the grill, but you can't make him get on" (or something like that).

OK, back to Blaze King stoves.

Having never inspected one in person, I'm not sure where or how the air intake works. Well I know the basic theory but not the mechanical implementation. I understand the air intake is controlled by the bi-metallic thermostat and the thermostat is controlled by the manual knob and, of course, the temperature. Does this mean that if the stove is on a medium burn and the knob is set to a medium burn, that turning the thermostat knob higher or lower will immediately open or close the air intake to some degree? And that turning the thermostat to full high would open the air intake all the way (at least temporarily until the stove became hotter)?

Has anyone rigged up an air intake indicator or is it possible to visually see how far the air intake is open or closed during a burn?

You seem to understand it correctly. The direct link between the knob and the throttle plate includes a bimettalic spring that acts to close the flapper when in gets hotter. If the stove is at a zillion degrees then nomatter how high you turn the knob, you won't be able to open the throttle plate but nomatter how ice cold the stove is you can always turn the knob down far enough to close the throttle blade.

Here's a picture of the throttle blade. You can run the stove with the throttle blade cover off and watch it work if you'd like. It's just a couple of screws in the back on top and you have full access to the throttle blade. Getting to the bimettalic spring is more involved and I wouldn't do it unless you are replacing the assembly for some reason.

on edit: This is just what I do, you are your own person.

 

[showrguy]

You can pull the t-stat cover and visually see the operation of the "throttle" blade.

Oh no, you can't do that...
It has a sticker on it that says "do not remove this cover"..
Lol

 

[webby3650]

Oh no, you can't do that...
It has a sticker on it that says "do not remove this cover"..
Lol

For most, it's a good idea not to mess with it. Obviously they must put that sticker on there for the vast majority that aren't on hearth!

 

[showrguy]

I know, I was makin a Funny !!

 

[showrguy]

Now I got a question about something I can't believe I did'nt notice before...
Do all King t-stats have that 1/2" or so hole in the flapper ??

 

[webby3650]

Now I got a question about something I can't believe I did'nt notice before...
Do all King t-stats have that 1/2" or so hole in the flapper ??

Pretty sure that all do. Probably 2 holes in fact..

 

[showrguy]

Pretty sure that all do. Probably 2 holes in fact..

Mine does not, however, below the flapper at the bottom of that steel chase.box.. There is a hole about 1/2"..
I've been searching for picture of a King flapper, but all I seem to find are others..

 

[webby3650]

Mine does not, however, below the flapper at the bottom of that steel chase.box.. There is a hole about 1/2"..
I've been searching for picture of a King flapper, but all I seem to find are others..

I know all models are different. The ones I've worked on had a hole in them. The Sirocco cutaway we have on display has 2 holes. Almost never would there be a reason to remove the top to look at the thermostat assembly. It's not something that needs worked on often, if ever.

 

[Highbeam]

I know all models are different. The ones I've worked on had a hole in them. The Sirocco cutaway we have on display has 2 holes. Almost never would there be a reason to remove the top to look at the thermostat assembly. It's not something that needs worked on often, if ever.

I remove that cover, my stickers fell off, every year to lube the friction washers and keep the knob turning smoothly. It's a #2 square drive. I put it back on because I have a good outside air feed that is defeated with the cover removed.

On edit: This is just what I do, you are your own person.

 

[tarzan]

I remove that cover, my stickers fell off, every year to lube the friction washers and keep the knob turning smoothly. It's a #2 square drive. I put it back on because I have a good outside air feed that is defeated with the cover removed.

What did your sticker say?

 

[Highbeam]

What did your sticker say?

It's been 5 years, there were a LOT of stickers plastered all over the dang thing like some sort of Hillary supporter's bumper. The big EPA sticker is still on the back though!

 

[BKVP]

So, when a person advocates removing the thermostat cover, think of the potential issue here. More current production in the past few years has a third screw. This screw was placed there for a high limit. So someone takes the cover off, the blade is wide open, they put the lid back on and in doing so the blade is now "block fully open!"

They start a fire and they cannot stop the inferno that could happen! However unlikely it is, this could most definitely occur.

Please guys, do not encourage folks to do things like this without full, 100% percent disclosure and proper reinstall instructions. Thank you. No one wants to be involved in a case where their words, posted here for everyone, for ever to come back on them.

Second, yes some models have holes in the blades. Some have holes located elsewhere to create a minimum air supply, a low burn rate minimum if you will. This is required under the EPA NSPS. The sticker is intended to warn owners to not tamper with the low stop and for safety purposes, leave the cover alone, again, thank you.

 

[Highbeam]

So, when a person advocates removing the thermostat cover, think of the potential issue here. More current production in the past few years has a third screw. This screw was placed there for a high limit. So someone takes the cover off, the blade is wide open, they put the lid back on and in doing so the blade is now "block fully open!"

They start a fire and they cannot stop the inferno that could happen! However unlikely it is, this could most definitely occur.

Please guys, do not encourage folks to do things like this without full, 100% percent disclosure and proper reinstall instructions. Thank you. No one wants to be involved in a case where their words, posted here for everyone, for ever to come back on them.

Second, yes some models have holes in the blades. Some have holes located elsewhere to create a minimum air supply, a low burn rate minimum if you will. This is required under the EPA NSPS. The sticker is intended to warn owners to not tamper with the low stop and for safety purposes, leave the cover alone, again, thank you.

I would never recommend that somebody else remove the cover. It is possible, I do it, and you've done it. If somebody wanted to do this themselves then they would need to consider all of the risks and rewards before learning all of the steps required.

 

[kennyp2339]

Question on my cat, I think I might have an issue with it, but I'm not sure..I clean my cat twice a year, the last was with a shop vac then air compressor @ 60 psi 3/8" hose.
My performance (long burns) have gone down lately, IDK what to think, I can get the fire nice and hot and my prob will read in the 1 o'clock range, if I look up through the flame shield I still get a faintly glowing combustor. If I turn the air down to "my normal low and slow" within 1.5hr's the cat probe will read on the line between active / inactive.
My burn times have also been suffering, since I'm running the stove hotter to maintain the cat probe near the noon area my burns are now about 8 hrs of useful heat.
Wood supply has been the same all year, burning between 15-18% moisture content, I do have a bundle of compressed bricks that I'm going to "test" tonight.
All gaskets seem to be good, the by-pass handle could prob use some adjusting since in not getting that defined clink when closing shut, or that pop feeling seems less.
But back to the main question, if a cat is "bad" then it shouldn't glow?

 

[Ashful]

It sounds a little like it's depleted, kenny. Even a depleted cat can show active and glow at higher burn rates, the catalyst is more necessary to maintain active reburn at the low burn rates.

Why did you have to resort to 60 psi air to get it clean? Do you think you could have blown the catalyst plating off the substrate?

 

[kennyp2339]

Why did you have to resort to 60 psi air to get it clean

The honest answer.... I didn't know what I was doing, and yes I think I might have blew some of that magic dust off of it.

 

[Highbeam]

Question on my cat, I think I might have an issue with it, but I'm not sure..I clean my cat twice a year, the last was with a shop vac then air compressor @ 60 psi 3/8" hose.
My performance (long burns) have gone down lately, IDK what to think, I can get the fire nice and hot and my prob will read in the 1 o'clock range, if I look up through the flame shield I still get a faintly glowing combustor. If I turn the air down to "my normal low and slow" within 1.5hr's the cat probe will read on the line between active / inactive.
My burn times have also been suffering, since I'm running the stove hotter to maintain the cat probe near the noon area my burns are now about 8 hrs of useful heat.
Wood supply has been the same all year, burning between 15-18% moisture content, I do have a bundle of compressed bricks that I'm going to "test" tonight.
All gaskets seem to be good, the by-pass handle could prob use some adjusting since in not getting that defined clink when closing shut, or that pop feeling seems less.
But back to the main question, if a cat is "bad" then it shouldn't glow?

It can still glow when bad. I bet you're getting more visible emissions too. You will notice that the minimum air setting to keep the cat active gets higher and higher. Creosote accumulation rate is going up and if you have a probe meter in the flue you can pull it out and the color will be very dark brown or black. You will also notice a much more rapid accumulation of junk on the cat face.

First step is to verify the cells are clear by another vacuuming and inspection. Then another test burn.

 

[Highbeam]

The honest answer.... I didn't know what I was doing, and yes I think I might have blew some of that magic dust off of it.

Nah, even the canned air is at 70 psi. It's more about velocity of the air as it hits the catalyst. That is controlled with the nozzle and distance from the cat.

 

[tarzan]

My cat would still glow once it was apparent that it was quickly going south. I suppose if you put enough heat to it too glow, it will but the reduced burn times and rapid falling cat temps suggest a dying cat.

 

[kennyp2339]

It can still glow when bad. I bet you're getting more visible emissions too. You will notice that the minimum air setting to keep the cat active gets higher and higher. Creosote accumulation rate is going up and if you have a probe meter in the flue you can pull it out and the color will be very dark brown or black. You will also notice a much more rapid accumulation of junk on the cat face.

First step is to verify the cells are clear by another vacuuming and inspection. Then another test burn.

All symptoms you described I am experiencing, I also noticed a substantial amount of grey / brown fly ash on the outside of the flame shield.
The cat cells are cleared (missing a few small chunks on the back side of the cat)
I'm thinking that I'm going to purchase a new cat and also take the old cat out <4yrs old and send it back to bk under warranty.
*When replacing your cat under warranty - go through your dealer, not blaze king co.

 

[Highbeam]

All symptoms you described I am experiencing, I also noticed a substantial amount of grey / brown fly ash on the outside of the flame shield.th
The cat cells are cleared (missing a few small chunks on the back side of the cat)
I'm thinking that I'm going to purchase a new cat and also take the old cat out <4yrs old and send it back to bk under warranty.
*When replacing your cat under warranty - go through your dealer, not blaze king co.

Some of the additional debris accumulating on the cat and flame shield of a nearly dead cat is because the cat is no longer getting and staying hot enough to burn this stuff off but also you're needing to burn at a higher stat setting so more fly ash is being blown up into the cat.

Before you pull the old cat I'd call the dealer to ask how long until he gets a new cat for you and also to be sure he won't jerk you around. It's still burn season and burning with a dead cat is better than burning with no cat.