2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK) Part 2

[jetsam]

If you own an old house with stone walls, you end up having a half dozen of these scattered all over the house, just to keep connectivity on the first and second floors.

On topic, now that I have these consistently-controllable BK's, I'm getting a much better feel for the dynamics of this house. After several days in the 50's, last night was 32F, and I woke up to 75F. This is about 4 degrees warmer than I'd see if it had been a consistent 32F outside for several days, and at least 7 or 8 degrees warmer than I'd see if it had been 20F for several days before a 32F night. The time constant on this mass of stone is several days.

The interior walls are stone all the way up to the second story? I bet you could put one good WAP in the middle on the ceiling of the top floor and cover the whole house.

That's cool about the thermal mass.

 

[Poindexter]

The chimney and stove are always cleaned completely at the start of every heating season. My Cat indicator never fell below active unless the stove were done with its burn and being shut down.

This season has been the warmest I can remember with the stove, and many shut downs and startups this year.

Our wood is always seasoned for 2 years, about 17 to 19% moisture content, and I have run this stove for over 5 years without any trouble. Our cat still lights off and responds well, it was replaced 2 years ago.

I know this stove can generate creosote or condensate very quickly in some cases,

As always, thanks for all advise,

When I am running wood over ~16% MC I do brush my pipe every 1-2 cords, just FWIW.

I hear ya on the mild winters. Though we did hit -50dF up here for the first time since 2009, we were only there about 10 minutes, and it is seeming like the third very mild winter in a row to me.

Given weather uncertainty I encourage you to get your setup in good working order whether or not you use it for now. Among the local to me vendors I found a chimney product warrantied against chimney fires for as long as I own the house. They don't cover R/R labor, but the warranty does cover replacement pipe and damage to my house, pretty good warranty I think.

 

[webby3650]

View attachment 195797

11 hours of burning at 30% on the thermostat, ~75% full of poorly seasoned oak. 20° out, 75° in. It's maaagic!

View attachment 195798

Fairly full of poorly seasoned oak (plus a little stick of green pine I found in the yard when I went out to split a split down into minisplits).

If I wanted to play Tetris and do some more splitting, I could get another reasonably big split in there, but there's no reason to. I'll be back in 12-13 hours and there will still be plenty left.

What's with the poorly seasoned wood? And green pine?

 

[Ashful]

The interior walls are stone all the way up to the second story? I bet you could put one good WAP in the middle on the ceiling of the top floor and cover the whole house.

That's cool about the thermal mass.

Actually it's four stories, not two. All 20" thick solid stone and mud, with plaster applied directly to interior of stonework, and stucco on the exterior. When I say mud, I don't mean "mud" as in portland bedding mortar, I mean it's literally mud they dug up in the back yard 280 and 250 years ago.

Thermal mass has some great advantages, but there are a few disadvantages, too!

 

[Highbeam]

We had a chimney fire the night before last, very scary. As we were watching tv, alarms went off and smoke haze from the very hot double wall connector pipe filled the cathedral section of the living area. It occurred just as I was starting the stove for the coming cold snap. Wife called the fire department and I put out the stove with the stove extinguisher we keep "just in case". Apparently, the chimney fire consumed all available fuel very quickly and was out in a few minutes, before the FD arrived. They pulled the cap and checked the chimney to be sure it was out and done. Cap was loaded with crunchies. My fire box is heavy creosote and crunchy black, with the side panels in the box full of crunchy stuff.

The chimney and stove are always cleaned completely at the start of every heating season. My Cat indicator never fell below active unless the stove were done with its burn and being shut down.

This season has been the warmest I can remember with the stove, and many shut downs and startups this year.

Our wood is always seasoned for 2 years, about 17 to 19% moisture content, and I have run this stove for over 5 years without any trouble. Our cat still lights off and responds well, it was replaced 2 years ago.

I know this stove can generate creosote or condensate very quickly in some cases, but I cannot climb to the roof to do an inspection and clean out during the heating season. Our roof is high and often slippery, so I would have to call in a sweep.

We will be replacing the chimney because of the fire, I don't think it can be trusted after that heat level. Not sure we will keep the stove and might have to get rid of it and the chimney.

It's just hard for me to tell if the creaosote level is getting to the danger zone-

More post mortem analysis to come in the spring when the chimney is removed.

As always, thanks for all advise, I read the Blaze King pages all the time, this community is a wealth of knowledge greatly appreciated.

I assume that this chimney fire was started during the warm up stage of the stove with the bypass open? Seems like fire can shoot right up the flue.

Not sure if there is a way to avoid fire in the flue due to the stove design but keeping the flue clean should limit the available fuel for a chimney fire. Do you suppose that a thin layer of accumulation will ignite into a small fire but a large accumulation just a larger chimney fire? In other words, as long as there is a dusting of creosote we are taking a risk anytime that flames are shooting up the pipe?

As far as not having to get up on the roof to clean, you don't have to do that. I clean my all vertical class A chimney from the bottom up. Right through the loading door of my princess with the sooteater. Then clean out the firebox. That should clean the area where these chimney fires spark up.

 

[Ashful]

I clean my all vertical class A chimney from the bottom up. Right through the loading door of my princess with the sooteater. Then clean out the firebox. That should clean the area where these chimney fires spark up.

Ditto.

 

[lsucet]

Not sure if there is a way to avoid fire in the flue due to the stove design but keeping the flue clean should limit the available fuel for a chimney fire

Since I experience that small mini fire some weeks back, i am making the initial small fire more toward the door in front of the stove like the manual recommend under LIGHTING THE FIRE.

AT the same time looks like the cat gets to operating temp quicker and by the time of tossing more wood in there the cat is almost at the active zone.

 

[jetsam]

What's with the poorly seasoned wood? And green pine?

New house, second year. Next year that oak will have been aging for 1.5 years. The green pine was a 1" stick that had the bad fortune to land on my doorstep.

 

[BKVP]

Please remember to close and lock the bypass. Also, check the gasket for a tight seal and adjust if necessary.

Thank you
BKVP

 

[kf6hap]

High MC wood? Make sure you do a full "load char" at the beginning of each burn. Red hot wood has a low moisture content. Always burn in "batches", not dropping logs in every few hours. I think this might help. My wood is not the driest either.

 

[rdust]

The interior walls are stone all the way up to the second story? I bet you could put one good WAP in the middle on the ceiling of the top floor and cover the whole house.

That's cool about the thermal mass.

We had a chimney fire the night before last, very scary. As we were watching tv, alarms went off and smoke haze from the very hot double wall connector pipe filled the cathedral section of the living area. It occurred just as I was starting the stove for the coming cold snap. Wife called the fire department and I put out the stove with the stove extinguisher we keep "just in case". Apparently, the chimney fire consumed all available fuel very quickly and was out in a few minutes, before the FD arrived. They pulled the cap and checked the chimney to be sure it was out and done. Cap was loaded with crunchies. My fire box is heavy creosote and crunchy black, with the side panels in the box full of crunchy stuff.

The chimney and stove are always cleaned completely at the start of every heating season. My Cat indicator never fell below active unless the stove were done with its burn and being shut down.

This season has been the warmest I can remember with the stove, and many shut downs and startups this year.

Our wood is always seasoned for 2 years, about 17 to 19% moisture content, and I have run this stove for over 5 years without any trouble. Our cat still lights off and responds well, it was replaced 2 years ago.

I know this stove can generate creosote or condensate very quickly in some cases, but I cannot climb to the roof to do an inspection and clean out during the heating season. Our roof is high and often slippery, so I would have to call in a sweep.

We will be replacing the chimney because of the fire, I don't think it can be trusted after that heat level. Not sure we will keep the stove and might have to get rid of it and the chimney.

It's just hard for me to tell if the creaosote level is getting to the danger zone-

More post mortem analysis to come in the spring when the chimney is removed.

As always, thanks for all advise, I read the Blaze King pages all the time, this community is a wealth of knowledge greatly appreciated.

I’ve burned my Princess for 6 seasons now and have “smoked” the double wall pipe twice in that time period.(one first season and one second season IIRC) Both times were after sweeping the pipe and chimney so I know I didn’t have enough fuel in the chimney to support a chimney fire. What I have found is I have to be careful when I load the stove on a decent coal bed. My chimney is 30’ tall and drafts pretty hard so if I leave a channel down the middle of the stove between splits the flames get sucked right up the chimney creating a “blow torch” effect which can go unnoticed if you don’t pay attention since it’s happening in the rear of the stove. To prevent this I try to stick a larger split right in the middle of the firebox to stop the direct shot of air over the coal bed and up the chimney. I’m not always successful at preventing this though, in those cases I either turn the air way down but usually just engage the cat and call it a day. The couple times I did “smoke” the pipe I shut the bypass then turned the air all the way down. Things started to cool off immediately.(no roaring chimney or anything like that)

My wood is on the 3 year + plan, even at that I still sweep the chimney two times a season just in case I encounter another one of these situations. If there isn’t much build up when I slip up there won’t be enough fuel to support a house ruining chimney fire.

 

[lsucet]

The couple times I did “smoke” the pipe I shut the bypass then turned the air all the way down. Things started to cool off immediately.(no roaring chimney or anything like that)

That was what i did and everything got under control instantly. It is amazing how that thermostat controls that intake.

 

[regalflyer]

The chimney fire did happen during a restart with a full load and the "blow torch" flames up the chimney. I have never had more than a half quart of junk come out after a seasonal clean out, but my fire box is loaded with crunchies, as is the chimney cap. I always make sure the bypass is secure and latched after the startup. I could not find any issue with the bypass gasket either.

I do have 2 45s in the chimney and I wonder if this causes a problem during a low burn? I would have to go directly through the peak of the house in order to get a straight chimney.

When I reload over hot coals, the cat is already up to temp so I reengage it immediately. That stops the blow torch during reloads. It's the cold startup when I have a hard time waiting for the cat to warm up that chimney temps get very high.

 

[jetsam]

I swept my flue probably 10-12 times the first year. This year I know from experience that it was overkill to do it so often, and have only swept 3 times all year so far. I don't regret all those extra sweepings though, because that's how you get a feel for what's needed.

(My wood is also better this year... Last year it was going straight from the woods to the stove... This year it's all been stacked for a year. I got more than a year ahead in the first year, so next year I get 2 year CSS oak. Yum!)

 

[webby3650]

The chimney fire did happen during a restart with a full load and the "blow torch" flames up the chimney. I have never had more than a half quart of junk come out after a seasonal clean out, but my fire box is loaded with crunchies, as is the chimney cap. I always make sure the bypass is secure and latched after the startup. I could not find any issue with the bypass gasket either.

I do have 2 45s in the chimney and I wonder if this causes a problem during a low burn? I would have to go directly through the peak of the house in order to get a straight chimney.

When I reload over hot coals, the cat is already up to temp so I reengage it immediately. That stops the blow torch during reloads. It's the cold startup when I have a hard time waiting for the cat to warm up that chimney temps get very high.

You can still use your thermostat to control the fire until the cat is active. Just reduce the air if it's acting crazy before the cat is active.

 

[webby3650]

I swept my flue probably 10-12 times the first year. This year I know from experience that it was overkill to do it so often, and have only swept 3 times all year so far. I don't regret all those extra sweepings though, because that's how you get a feel for what's needed.

(My wood is also better this year... Last year it was going straight from the woods to the stove... This year it's all been stacked for a year. I got more than a year ahead in the first year, so next year I get 2 year CSS oak. Yum!)

Holy cow! I sweep once annually, only get a few ounces of brown fluff.
I'm even running a spark screen on my cap this season, all clear so far!

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

High MC wood? Make sure you do a full "load char" at the beginning of each burn. Red hot wood has a low moisture content. Always burn in "batches", not dropping logs in every few hours. I think this might help. My wood is not the driest either.

You cannot turn unseasoned or partially seasoned wood into low moisture content wood simply by charring the outside. It takes time for heat to get to the center of the wood and even longer for the moisture in the cells in the middle to migrate all the way out. This consumes a lot of time and energy and is why unseasoned wood leaves behind rather large coals that don't burn to ash very easily.

The real solution is to not burn wood that isn't fully seasoned. Burning wet wood because that's all you have is like drinking home made beer straight from the primary fermenter because there's no finished beer put up in the cellar. The solution is the same. If you don't have finished beer in the pantry, don't drink beer.

 

[kf6hap]

Rather than waiting for the cat thermometer to indicate "active" arrange the wood high close to the cat shield and light it so flames lick up at the cat area. When the flue probe reaches 350-/400 roll the bypass shut. Modulate the "start-up air" coming in through the loading door to prevent large flames from shooting straight up the chimney. The chimney draw will pull the flames up into the cat and it will glow red right away. This starting method avoids a lot of flames shooting up the chimney directly and cuts the starting time dramatically. It might even reduce the chances of a chimney fire.

 

[Woody Stover]

If you don't have finished beer in the pantry, don't drink beer.

You can go out and buy beer...and it will be wet, like most of the wood you can find to buy.

 

[Highbeam]

You cannot turn unseasoned or partially seasoned wood into low moisture content wood simply by charring the outside. It takes time for heat to get to the center of the wood and even longer for the moisture in the cells in the middle to migrate all the way out. This consumes a lot of time and energy and is why unseasoned wood leaves behind rather large coals that don't burn to ash very easily.

The real solution is to not burn wood that isn't fully seasoned. Burning wet wood because that's all you have is like drinking home made beer straight from the primary fermenter because there's no finished beer put up in the cellar. The solution is the same. If you don't have finished beer in the pantry, don't drink beer.

Or buy finished beer (seasoned wood).

Mmmmm, beer.

 

[jetsam]

Just for the record, I am strongly against buying wood, but I am all for buying beer.

 

[jetsam]

Holy cow! I sweep once annually, only get a few ounces of brown fluff.
I'm even running a spark screen on my cap this season, all clear so far!

Yeah, the last sweeping I did this year was a 'Why did I even bother' one. My accumulation (rather predictably) all happens in shoulder season.

 

[jetsam]

I'll be back in 12-13 hours and there will still be plenty left.

And that's how that works!

 

[Poindexter]

When I reload over hot coals, the cat is already up to temp so I reengage it immediately. That stops the blow torch during reloads. It's the cold startup when I have a hard time waiting for the cat to warm up that chimney temps get very high.

I have found with my stove (Ashford 30) from cold starts, when the flue gas probe hits 1000dF with the cat probe at the "T" in inactive I can engage the cat and it will take right off.

 

[Niko]

I have found with my stove (Ashford 30) from cold starts, when the flue gas probe hits 1000dF with the cat probe at the "T" in inactive I can engage the cat and it will take right off.

Arent you waisting a lof of fuel letting the flue climb up to 1000df? I close my bypass when i see mine around 400 amd within a 3-10 of minutes my cat is active.