2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK) Part 2

[twd000]

When I reload onto hot coals with an active cat, do I still need to run in bypass mode for some period of time?

No, if the cat is into active zone closed door, bypass and run it on high for awhile to charr the load and dial it to low or whatever make you comfortable.

sorry to be pedantic, but how long is "awhile"? If the stat is already in the active zone, what clue am I looking for that I can safely close the bypass? I know all the logs will eventually catch, even without pre-charring, so why do I need to send extra BTUs up the chimney? Checking my chimney smoke seems inaccurate and impractical, but I want to make sure the cat is burning smoke to get the best efficiency.

 

[lsucet]

So is the thermostat "smart" enough to prevent me from accidently stalling the cat? I read the warnings in the manual not to lower it too quickly. What I want to avoid is lowering the stat, then coming back an hour later to find out that I killed the fire.

You need to find the setting that works for you based on your setup, outside temperatures etc. Play with it till you find the sweet spot the do the job for you

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I am burning a 50/50 mix of red oak and maple. It has been seasoned at least two years as the previous owner left it in the side yard. Splits average 16" by 6" square on the ends.

"Seasoned at least two years" doesn't tell us the moisture content of the wood because there are so many variables with the seasoning process. Was it stacked three rows deep or one row? Sun or shade? Covered/uncovered. Exposed to wind or sheltered? Stacked loosely or tightly? Exposed to ground rain splash or protected?

The only way to know for sure is to split a few of the heavier pieces open and measure the MC. Most wood burning issues are caused by burning wood that is not properly seasoned. Second most common problem is inadequate draft.

Sometimes it's a combination of the two (borderline draft with wood that is almost seasoned).

 

[lsucet]

sorry to be pedantic, but how long is "awhile"? If the stat is already in the active zone, what clue am I looking for that I can safely close the bypass? I know all the logs will eventually catch, even without pre-charring, so why do I need to send extra BTUs up the chimney? Checking my chimney smoke seems inaccurate and impractical, but I want to make sure the cat is burning smoke to get the best efficiency.

Well it depends. Wood species, how full you load the stove etc. I think a good starting point is the twenty minutes or so that the manual recommend. Remember, the manual recommendation of burn it on high for those 20-30 minutes is based on a full load every time.

 

[Ashful]

When I reload onto hot coals with an active cat, do I still need to run in bypass mode for some period of time?

You do not need to run it in bypass if needle is well into active range. If needle is hovering on the lower edge of active, running it in bypass for 5 minutes while the wood catches on can still be a good idea, as that large charge of cold wood will likely bring cat temp below active. The needle won't show this, as it's too slow to catch transients much shorter than 5 - 10 minutes.

Bottom line, if you don't have a glowing cat within 5 minutes of closing the bypass damper on a fresh load of properly-seasoned wood, you probably closed it too early.

However, when I walked outside to check the chimney, there was thick white smoke belching out. Is it possible to overwhelm the cat with too much smoke volume?

Likely steam, not smoke. Oak at 20% MC still has 7 - 8 lb./ft3 of water in it. Assuming you fill a 3 cu.ft. firebox to 85% capacity, that's something like 19 lb. of water that has to come out thru your chimney.

However, yes it is possible to push so much smoke thru a cat that it can't process it all. No harm done, as long as it remains in active region.

When I am running low and slow to extend burn times, how low can I cut back the thermostat?

Until the cat stalls. I know it's not the answer you're requesting, but there's no one setting that's the same for all installations. Try running burns in consistent weather at progressively lower settings, until you find the setting that eventually stalls your cat out of the active zone. Know that this setting is dependent on draft, and therefore outside temperature. For a valid test, you must complete full burns without varying your setting mid-burn, as the cat temp (and stall point) varies through the burn. It will only take you a few days to find this setting, then mark it on your dial with tape or Sharpie.

When I did so, I could hear the knob click, and it looked like the fire was extinguished.

Perfectly normal, and not a problem. The firebox is producing wood gas, at this smoulder rate, and the cat chews the wood gas. A black firebox is not a sign of a problem, unless you shut it so far that the cat stalls. The click noise is the air inlet snapping shut. Your thermostat knob drives a spring which actuates the air inlet. In fact, you can find the knob setting at which you completely defeat the thermostat by turning down the thermostat until you hear a click on a cold stove. On a hot stove, this will happen at a higher thermostat setting, but that's okay.

 

[kf6hap]

White "smoke" that disappears some distance from the cap is steam. From certain viewing angles steam can appear to be blue or black smoke.

 

[twd000]

White "smoke" that disappears some distance from the cap is steam. From certain viewing angles steam can appear to be blue or black smoke.

that may be what it was. It cleared up after 5 minutes or so

 

[Woody Stover]

When I reload onto hot coals with an active cat, do I still need to run in bypass mode for some period of time?

Yes and yes.

No, if the cat is into active zone closed door, bypass and run it on high for awhile to charr the load

Not sure, but I think son of jetsam said yes, and eyesocket said no.
In most cases, my stove is down to a small coal bed and the cat is not active by the time I reload, so I burn in the new load a bit, bypass open, to get some coals on the wood (generating smoke) and heat the stove up, then I close the bypass but still keep some flame in the box to ensure a quick light-off.
If you can't go outside to verify that the cat's burning and there's no smoke coming out, put a surface meter above the cat...stove-top temp there should begin rising fairly quickly if the cat is burning, even though it may not be glowing. I really like to see the cat glowing soon after I close the bypass, but don't always get the stove hot enough for the cat to glow at the start. As long as SST above the cat is rising, I know it's working.

White "smoke" that disappears some distance from the cap is steam. From certain viewing angles steam can appear to be blue or black smoke.

How fast steam disappears will depend on how humid it is outside. Steam will look "lighter" in weight, in the way a light breeze affects it....looks more "swirly." It is white though. If you see blue or black, there is some component of smoke mixed in...either the cat isn't burning all the smoke yet, or some creo is burning off inside the box or from some area that is after the cat.

 

[lsucet]

Not sure, but I think son of jetsam said yes, and eyesocket said no.

Based on his question that the cat still into the active zone, I have no choice to say that the bypass should also be closed and just jump into the process of charring the load. If I am wrong, so is the manual then. At this point we need a revised operator manual.

 

[black smoke signals]

Do NOT DO WHAT I DO(maybe try it) TWD000 some questions you have are unanswered this is how I control the combuster temp? At first light and a full box I wait till you see mark in active ZONE then slam the bypass down. Set t-stat to 1-2 oclock fan on low let her rip till stove top temp gets to 400-500 then I set t-stat to just past horizontal walk away.I never have excessive cat temp at first light.Now at reload ns-east west take your pick stove top down to 300 or lower rake coals to the front load it up again close bypass set t-stat to 1-2 let her rip for 2-4 min NOW ROLL THE T-STAT to closed position till flames go out then roll t-stat knob open till flames come back this is my sweet spot most of the time its just below horizontal say 4 oclock.walk away and let the t-stat do its thing. If setting is too cold slowly turn thermostat up to a higher setting .Controlling the combuster temp (thanks Blazing) remember first light then slam bypass closed? Place beer can over the cat gauge nothing to worry about.Dynamics can change all of this when you have high winds and bad wood then its a dance controlling the knob.

 

[lsucet]

Do NOT DO WHAT I DO(maybe try it) TWD000 some questions you have are unanswered this is how I control the combuster temp? At first light and a full box I wait till you see mark in active ZONE then slam the bypass down. Set t-stat to 1-2 oclock fan on low let her rip till stove top temp gets to 400-500 then I set t-stat to just past horizontal walk away.I never have excessive cat temp at first light.Now at reload ns-east west take your pick stove top down to 300 or lower rake coals to the front load it up again close bypass set t-stat to 1-2 let her rip for 2-4 min NOW ROLL THE T-STAT to closed position till flames go out then roll t-stat knob open till flames come back this is my sweet spot most of the time its just below horizontal say 4 oclock.walk away and let the t-stat do its thing. If setting is too cold slowly turn thermostat up to a higher setting .Controlling the combuster temp (thanks Blazing) remember first light then slam bypass closed? Place beer can over the cat gauge nothing to worry about.Dynamics can change all of this when you have high winds and bad wood then its a dance controlling the knob.

I know all setups don't work the same but in mine a setting of 4 o'clock, I will be ripping thru wood and when flame disappear is cause stove top is around 800 df and radiation thru the glass is insane. Are you sure your thermostat is calibrated right? If it works for you like that is ok but I think something is off.

 

[BKVP]

Better late than never! Off to Louisville for NCSG Conference. Any takers for a beer? Wait...it's Kentucky, make that a bourbon!

 

[Highbeam]

Better late than never! Off to Louisville for NCSG Conference. Any takers for a beer? Wait...it's Kentucky, make that a bourbon!

Pipe cleaners

 

[jetsam]

So is the thermostat "smart" enough to prevent me from accidently stalling the cat? I read the warnings in the manual not to lower it too quickly. What I want to avoid is lowering the stat, then coming back an hour later to find out that I killed the fire.

No, the thermostat is not smart at all. You get the airflow you set on the dial; the thermostat will open or close the air somewhat based on how close to the target temperature it is, but it can't, for example, say 'whoa, the cat is about to stall, we need a large increase in air here'.

It is still good enough to let a PI stay cat-active for 24 hours, and to stop overfires, so do not get the idea that makes it pretty awesome- but it's a mechanical bimetal spring and thus not at all 'smart'.

You will probably not be able to lower the thermostat and kill the cat with the fans off, unless you dial down lower than your draft can support. The higher the fans, the easier it is to do. I personally need a blazing hot stove and a thermostat setting above 50% on the dial to run with high fans.

 

[Ashful]

Dear Frigid Weather In March:

Bring it on!

View attachment 195936

- My BK

What... you only have one?



Oh, and who was that asshat who claimed BK's don't have nice flame show?

I know all setups don't work the same but in mine a setting of 4 o'clock, I will be ripping thru wood and when flame disappear is cause stove top is around 800 df and radiation thru the glass is insane. Are you sure your thermostat is calibrated right? If it works for you like that is ok but I think something is off.

The red arrow is my 12-hour setting, the blue arrow is my 24-hour setting, but on different chimneys. Red arrow is around 4 o'clock on a 29-foot chimney, for 12 hours. Blue arrow is at 3:30 on a 15-foot chimney, for 24 hours.

 

[jetsam]

Well it depends. Wood species, how full you load the stove etc. I think a good starting point is the twenty minutes or so that the manual recommend. Remember, the manual recommendation of burn it on high for those 20-30 minutes is based on a full load every time.

You need to leave it open a couple minutes before you open the door.

On a hot reload, if the stove is good and hot, I typically don't wait long to put the cat back in. If I feel the cat might have fallen below the active zone from the cold air rushing in the open door (you can't tell from the cat probe thermometer, which is on a 7-8 minute delay)- then I will give it a minute until I see flames up in front of the cat, and then I know it will certainly be good to go again.

You don't want to flip the cat in *immediately* on a hot reload, because let's say that the cat box had flames on it for the whole reload and the cat is 1000°F, but the firebox was flooded with 70°F air and its air temp is now 500°F. You don't want to expose a ceramic cat to a 500° change in temperature, so you wait a minute for the firebox air to heat back up.

If you have a steel cat, I wouldn't see much reason to wait on a hot reload.

As for how long exactly I wait- well, if the firebox is emitting glowing face-melting waves of heat through the door, let's say 10 seconds. If the firebox has cool wood covering coals and the wood is just starting to catch, maybe 2-3 minutes.

 

[jetsam]

What... you only have one?

The ladies prefer it that way, believe it or not.

Oh, and who was that asshat who claimed BK's don't have nice flame show?

Rather a lot of 'em. If you see any, tell them that I said they have to go sit with the "you can't burn pine" people.

If that makes them sad, they can make an appointment with Doctor Puppy to talk about it.


Dr. Puppy will see you now.

 

[lsucet]

What... you only have one?

View attachment 195960 View attachment 195961

Oh, and who was that asshat who claimed BK's don't have nice flame show?



The red arrow is my 12-hour setting, the blue arrow is my 24-hour setting, but on different chimneys. Red arrow is around 4 o'clock on a 29-foot chimney, for 12 hours. Blue arrow is at 3:30 on a 15-foot chimney, for 24 hours.

View attachment 195963 View attachment 195962

That proof not all setups work the same for sure. At 4 o'clock mine goes crazy and with flame most of the time. At that point the flue temperature is high and I just feel I am sending too much heat up the chimney. Just under 3 o'clock I get better results. The stove top hotter, better wood comsuption and not sending much heat up the chimney when keeping everything the same talking about inside house temp

 

[black smoke signals]

So not to confuse you new people lets be on the same page ISUCET you have BK Ultra this t-stat knob turns opposite from my BK Insert

 

[tarzan]

What... you only have one?

View attachment 195960 View attachment 195961

Oh, and who was that asshat who claimed BK's don't have nice flame show?



The red arrow is my 12-hour setting, the blue arrow is my 24-hour setting, but on different chimneys. Red arrow is around 4 o'clock on a 29-foot chimney, for 12 hours. Blue arrow is at 3:30 on a 15-foot chimney, for 24 hours.

View attachment 195963 View attachment 195962

Yeah, definitely a difference in setups or thermostats . Your 24 hour setting on the 15' chimney would be my "all hands on deck" <10 hour setting and your red arrow would be "in case of emergency" territory.

 

[Ashful]

Yeah, definitely a difference in setups or thermostats . Your 24 hour setting on the 15' chimney would be my "all hands on deck" <10 hour setting and your red arrow would be "in case of emergency" territory.

You have better names for your burn settings.

 

[jetsam]

You have better names for your burn settings.

A guy who barehands burning trees across rivers needs to distinguish between "all hands on deck" and "emergency".

 

[jetsam]

Not sure, but I think son of jetsam said yes, and eyesocket said no.

I was talking about the opening the bypass before the door; he was talking about leaving the bypass open after closing the door.

I don't think that anyone (except maybe steelcat owners) disagrees on the first point; the second one seems to have a slightly wider field of opinions.

 

[tarzan]

You have better names for your burn settings.

Guess where my Gunter Glieben Glouten Globen setting is.

 

[lsucet]

So not to confuse you new people lets be on the same page ISUCET you have BK Ultra this t-stat knob turns opposite from my BK Insert

My apologies to you sr. I didn't realize you have the insert. The question about the thermostat calibration was not in any way a criticism. If anything I was trying to help if possible. I am posting from my phone cause I am on vacation and it doesn't show the signature.