2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK) Part 2

[WoodyIsGoody]

I probably need to do it more than most people do, because I run more water vapor through my cat than most people do, and I bet that's where a lot of the deposits come from.

Which raises the question, why would you do that? My dog wants to know the answer too.

 

[Texas123]

I am asking this question, as I can only use a rear flue stove into the existing stainless steel chimney insert. Does Blaze King have any plans to develop a rear flue stove? If there was a rear flue model I would have already purchased it.

 

[Highbeam]

I am asking this question, as I can only use a rear flue stove into the existing stainless steel chimney insert. Does Blaze King have any plans to develop a rear flue stove? If there was a rear flue model I would have already purchased it.

Currently, only Woodstock serves the rear exit crowd. They make some great stuff. Okay, pretty good stuff. For some reason rear exit plate steel stoves have never been common.

 

[Tegbert]

I always run the house stove pretty low. Only 1700 sf in a fairly moderate climate. I just get a lot of hours per season.

I followed the directions exactly for the acid bath. I hope it lasts many seasons more but I know that a new cat is only two days away if it craps out again.

The shop stove gets run hard.

How much wood do you burn per season?


Lopi Rockport

 

[Highbeam]

We removed the process from the manual because many, many, many folks removed them, dropped them, messed them up and ran them without replacing the gasket. All of which was listed in detail. Then expected warranty coverage. We prefer they contact us or the dealer and we walk them through the process.

ACI has repeatedly over the years stated the precious metals never disappear but rather are over-plated with deposits...which the acidic bath removes.

Does the acid bath remove any of the precious metals?

If bk is listening, bolt on bypass gasket retainers and reusable cat gaskets (rope, bolts, etc) would be awesome.

I'm so happy to have my princess working right again. Long burn times, no smoke, steady heat output all day, the neighbors don't even know I'm burning.

 

[Highbeam]

How much wood do you burn per season?


Lopi Rockport

Under 5 cords but my second stove in the 1800 sf shop is responsible for some of that. Usually one load per day in the bk as full as I can get it. I'm up at 750' ASL.

 

[Woody Stover]

Woodstock wants you to perform a vinegar wash 2-3 times per season!

I didn't see that in the link I posted; Have you got a different link? I'd think once every couple years should be plenty...I'm no expert, though.
Really interested to see the results with your cat, which we know has dropped off in performance. [Insert popcorn-eating GIFhere.]

Any idea just how well their cats actually hold up over time?

I got my Keystone in Dec, '10 but there was a couple seasons I didn't burn it, and I've split the other 4+ years between the original ceramic cat, and a diesel-foil I got for it, so maybe only two years on each cat. They are still working well. I sold the Fireview to my BIL, and he replace the original diesel-foil that was in it after 4 yrs. I didn't get a chance to burn his stove before he replaced the old cat, so I don't know how much it had diminished in performance, if at all. I'll have to ask him again about the circumstances surrounding the replacement. From what I've read here, one can expect performance to begin dropping after 3 yrs. of normal use. Sure, you could keep using it and it would still burn pretty clean through the heart of the burn, but it would be harder to light off and would drop out sooner. I don't want to put up with that for too long, especially the "slower light-off" part.

Doing this etches off a layer so you don't want to do this unless absolutely necessary to restore functional activity.

Got a link to this info? Eating away the catalyst isn't mentioned here...

ACI has repeatedly over the years stated the precious metals never disappear but rather are over-plated with deposits...which the acidic bath removes.

We removed the process from the manual because many, many, many folks removed them, dropped them, messed them up and ran them without replacing the gasket.....Then expected warranty coverage

Just as I suspected. Way too many negatives involved to recommend the procedure. But for the informed...

The only negative involved is being someone who is incapable of following written instructions. Why would someone even attempt it, in that case? Sheesh.

Does the acid bath remove any of the precious metals?
I'm so happy to have my princess working right again. Long burn times, no smoke, steady heat output all day, the neighbors don't even know I'm burning.

Great that you were able to revive that cat. I bet it will go for a while, but keep us updated...will be interesting to know how many hours you get on that cat before it is truly kaput, and can't be saved with a bath.
I would guess the vinegar wouldn't react with the metals in the platinum group, which are not very reactive, and I wouldn't think it would affect the bond to the stainless steel either. However, I'm not chemist (but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, and took chemistry 101.)

 

[webby3650]

I didn't see that in the link I posted; Have you got a different link? I'd think once every couple years should be plenty...I'm no expert, though.
Really interested to see the results with your cat, which we know has dropped off in performance. [Insert popcorn-eating GIFhere.]
I got my Keystone in Dec, '10 but there was a couple seasons I didn't burn it, and I've split the other 4+ years between the original ceramic cat, and a diesel-foil I got for it, so maybe only two years on each cat. They are still working well. I sold the Fireview to my BIL, and he replace the original diesel-foil that was in it after 4 yrs. I didn't get a chance to burn his stove before he replaced the old cat, so I don't know how much it had diminished in performance, if at all. I'll have to ask him again about the circumstances surrounding the replacement. From what I've read here, one can expect performance to begin dropping after 3 yrs. of normal use. Sure, you could keep using it and it would still burn pretty clean through the heart of the burn, but it would be harder to light off and would drop out sooner. I don't want to put up with that for too long, especially the "slower light-off" part.
Got a link to this info? Eating away the catalyst isn't mentioned here...

The only negative involved is being someone who is incapable of following written instructions. Why would someone even attempt it, in that case? Sheesh.
Great that you were able to revive that cat. I bet it will go for a while, but keep us updated...will be interesting to know how many hours you get on that cat before it is truly kaput, and can't be saved with a bath.
I would guess the vinegar wouldn't react with the metals in the platinum group, which are not very reactive, and I wouldn't think it would affect the bond to the stainless steel either. However, I'm not chemist (but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, and took chemistry 101.)

I sure don't see Woodstock, or any other manufacturer on here or anywhere trying to help customers with an issue.
Under normal use I certainly haven't seen a BK catalyst start having issues after 3/4 years of use. Perhaps a Woodstock issue? Not BK. Have you posted your findings on the Woodstock performance thread?

 

[tarzan]

The vinegar bath is like catalytic combuster CPR. If you start with a dead cat there's little too lose by trying to revive it.

I can see BKVP's point though, if several folks use poor judgement and or clumsily ruin the cat and then try too pass the expense of there bad decisions off.

These same folks are probably the reason for the asterisks in many of my various owners manuals that lists things I'm perfectly capable of doing but states "to be performed by a certified technician."

 

[Highbeam]

I didn't see that in the link I posted; Have you got a different link? I'd think once every couple years should be plenty...I'm no expert, though.
Really interested to see the results with your cat, which we know has dropped off in performance. [Insert popcorn-eating GIFhere.]
I got my Keystone in Dec, '10 but there was a couple seasons I didn't burn it, and I've split the other 4+ years between the original ceramic cat, and a diesel-foil I got for it, so maybe only two years on each cat. They are still working well. I sold the Fireview to my BIL, and he replace the original diesel-foil that was in it after 4 yrs. I didn't get a chance to burn his stove before he replaced the old cat, so I don't know how much it had diminished in performance, if at all. I'll have to ask him again about the circumstances surrounding the replacement. From what I've read here, one can expect performance to begin dropping after 3 yrs. of normal use. Sure, you could keep using it and it would still burn pretty clean through the heart of the burn, but it would be harder to light off and would drop out sooner. I don't want to put up with that for too long, especially the "slower light-off" part.
Got a link to this info? Eating away the catalyst isn't mentioned here...

The only negative involved is being someone who is incapable of following written instructions. Why would someone even attempt it, in that case? Sheesh.
Great that you were able to revive that cat. I bet it will go for a while, but keep us updated...will be interesting to know how many hours you get on that cat before it is truly kaput, and can't be saved with a bath.
I would guess the vinegar wouldn't react with the metals in the platinum group, which are not very reactive, and I wouldn't think it would affect the bond to the stainless steel either. However, I'm not chemist (but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, and took chemistry 101.)

I believe it was the AS manual from Woodstock. Clean the cat every few weeks and vinegar 2-3 times per season. I don't plan to do this with my bk cat but apparently it won't hurt the same steel cat in the AS. It's not like Woodstock makes their own cats, we're using the same cats.

EDIT: Cat combustor cleaning has been moved to its own thread for easier discoverability in the future
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cleaning-a-catalytic-combustor.162996/

 

[tarzan]

Good job Highbeam! I liked the last post since it was the only one with beer in it.

The only thing I would disagree with is the tight fitting cat. Maybe the tolerances are not exact or maybe my stove is the oddball but my cat slides in easily with a new gasket from Firecat.

 

[Poindexter]

Once the cat is out of the stove you are kinda dead in the water. Make sure you have 36" of new cat gasket. That gasket is like 2$ per foot plus shipping. Note that I have a weird steel curtain behind my cat, supposedly this curtain is not present in all stoves. Looks to be just a baffle to prevent exhaust from shooting straight into the flue.

My Ashford 30.0 has the same "curtain" behind the cat. I love love love that thing. When the cat is ripping way up in the active zone that curtain is taking the brunt of the combustor output - and conducting that raging firestorm straight into the top of the steel firebox where the convection deck fans can get ahold of it, carry the heat to my darling wife, who starts feeling warm enough to take off another piece of clothing. Its a wonderful thing that curtain.

 

[begreen]

Here she is boiling in the acid. Yes it stinks, yes you will lose a lot to evaporation, and yes there is a brownish mud that is coloring the acid. Something is being removed from the cat. The stainless steel pan did not discolor or become damaged. The wife will never know.

Lots of dunking during all stages. You want maximum exposure of the cells to the liquid. If you are dealing with ceramic, no banging. Just lift it up and down every couple of minutes.

Nice documentation. It looks like you and the cat got pickled together toward the end.
Moved to it's own thread here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cleaning-a-catalytic-combustor.162996/

 

[BKVP]

That's because most people figure they're smarter than the wordy idiots who write the manuals and can figure it out themselves. I don't know why people think this, maybe they just have an aversion to reading? They probably "know" the gasket is there because the "nanny" government mandates it so the only side effect of not bothering to replace it will be slightly more pollution.



This implies that they would last indefinitely if the substrate was durable enough? Are most toasted converters thrown away or is there incentive to recycle them? I remember reading about thieves that would steal them off parked cars because the precious metals were worth $50-$100.

The precious metals are definitely reclaimed!

 

[blueguy]

If bk is listening, bolt on bypass gasket retainers and reusable cat gaskets (rope, bolts, etc) would be awesome.

This.

 

[rdust]

Note that I have a weird steel curtain behind my cat, supposedly this curtain is not present in all stoves. Looks to be just a baffle to prevent exhaust from shooting straight into the flue.

I was wrong, mine actually has the same thing. I had never noticed it before.

 

[webby3650]

This.

I've never seen a bypass gasket retainer fail. I'm not familiar with any reusable cat gaskets. Ropes and bolts?

 

[Ashful]

conducting that raging firestorm straight into the top of the steel firebox where the convection deck fans can get ahold of it, carry the heat to my darling wife, who starts feeling warm enough to take off another piece of clothing.

Pics, or it didn't happen. [emoji14]

 

[Ashful]

I've never seen a bypass gasket retainer fail. I'm not familiar with any reusable cat gaskets. Ropes and bolts?

Highbeam posted photos of his warped retainers just recently.

 

[webby3650]

Highbeam posted photos of his warped retainers just recently.

Any others? I knew he had reported this, but I've never seen it or heard of another one personally.

 

[begreen]

Currently, only Woodstock serves the rear exit crowd. They make some great stuff. Okay, pretty good stuff. For some reason rear exit plate steel stoves have never been common.

Buck makes the model 261 which is rear exit. The High Valley 1600 is also rear exit steel stove. Both are non-cat.

 

[BKVP]

The Sirocco 25 and Ashford 25, our newest models have bolt in retainers.

 

[Highbeam]

Buck makes the model 261 which is rear exit. The High Valley 1600 is also rear exit steel stove. Both are non-cat.

Lots of noncats. Even my old hearthstone if you don't want a long burning cat.

 

[Highbeam]

I've never seen a bypass gasket retainer fail. I'm not familiar with any reusable cat gaskets. Ropes and bolts?

I have. It happens and is the intentional weak link, they should be replaceable.

Woodstocks don't require new gaskets to remove the cat.

 

[webby3650]

I have. It happens and is the intentional weak link, they should be replaceable.

Woodstocks don't require new gaskets to remove the cat.

Intentional?