2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK) Part 2

[lsucet]

If you can afford all that, you can afford to give my sis a good deal!

You got me on that one, tell her to contact me. i want to see the % i will get out of her to pay for the other BKs and cats.lol

 

[liquidskin]

Do you grind out the inside nut with the upgrade or reuse the old one?

Interested in the answer to this as well...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[webby3650]

Do you grind out the inside nut with the upgrade or reuse the old one?

Either way. I would grind off the welded nut personally. I do because the stud is broke off in it anyway, that's why I'm there..

 

[Highbeam]

Either way. I would grind off the welded nut personally. I do because the stud is broke off in it anyway, that's why I'm there..

By removing the welded inner nut you gain significant adjustment flexibility. With the welded nut you must tighten/loosen the latch hook in full turn increments. With a loose inner nut you have infinitely fine adjustment capability. If the latch hook threaded end is long enough you could just drill through the welded nut to remove the threads and add another loose nut to the firebox side.

So how big of a deal is it to remove that inner welded nut? Little die grinder, 4" grinder, oxy/acetylene? The firebox isn't particularly thick here and you want a smooth surface for the new nut to ride on.

The upgrade "kit" is over 50$ when I last checked.

 

[webby3650]

By removing the welded inner nut you gain significant adjustment flexibility. With the welded nut you must tighten/loosen the latch hook in full turn increments. With a loose inner nut you have infinitely fine adjustment capability. If the latch hook threaded end is long enough you could just drill through the welded nut to remove the threads and add another loose nut to the firebox side.

So how big of a deal is it to remove that inner welded nut? Little die grinder, 4" grinder, oxy/acetylene? The firebox isn't particularly thick here and you want a smooth surface for the new nut to ride on.

The upgrade "kit" is over 50$ when I last checked.

Just a 4.5" grinder is what I've used.

 

[showrguy]

Some of you guys have way more range of use when it comes to the thermostat than I do..
I'm wondering if I might have too much draft ??
Coming off of the stove is roughly 15' of black double wall, then into ceiling box, then approx 18' of class A, through the attic, and out through the roof..
All in a straight line..
King ultra stove, 8" pipe..
Brother in law is bringing a nanometer home from work, hope to check this weekend..
Should chimney be up to temp, warm, or cold, when checking ????
Thanks,

 

[lsucet]

The way I was told was to run the stove for a while and let it stabilize when it is cruising and check. i used to let mine connect it all the time and monitor it.

 

[Highbeam]

Some of you guys have way more range of use when it comes to the thermostat than I do..
I'm wondering if I might have too much draft ??
Coming off of the stove is roughly 15' of black double wall, then into ceiling box, then approx 18' of class A, through the attic, and out through the roof..
All in a straight line..
King ultra stove, 8" pipe..
Brother in law is bringing a nanometer home from work, hope to check this weekend..
Should chimney be up to temp, warm, or cold, when checking ????
Thanks,

Hot chimney, high fire. That's a monster chimney that is at high risk for overdraft. I'd hate to guess at flue temps up near the top.

 

[lsucet]

Now, with that length of chimney and the BK you should have no problem at all, Mine is not even close to yours and i used to have overdraft problem with other stoves but with BK it just went away from day one. Actually you supposed to be able to run it real low and keep active cat.

 

[kennyp2339]

Now, with that length of chimney and the BK you should have no problem at all,

Actually that maybe to much chimney, years ago there were a couple bk burners that turned there stoves in because they couldn't get heat or long burn times due to the setup having over draft issues. He maybe in the same ball park. The problem is the t-stat, the t-stat will open and let air in, it is turned for to run at .05in w.c. at high, anything more the fire will burn to hot and you will degrade your cat, over fire the stove and not have the true BK experience.
Suppose he tries to compensate the t-stat by keeping it at a low setting he will still have burning issues, if the stove isn't warmed up the t-stat will open cause a bellow effect shortening the burn times, then theres the issue for the heat the stove produces literally being sucked up the flu, so the t-stat will keep opening.
In his case this is were manual air control stoves are better, you can more or less fool the stove by installing a manual damper, blocking the main air inlet (or sec tube inlet for epa) and use your air control rod to damper the fire at lower levels.

 

[Ashful]

Brother in law is bringing a nanometer home from work, hope to check this weekend..

How will you ever see it?

Couldn't resist... nerd humor.

 

[lsucet]

Actually that maybe to much chimney, years ago there were a couple bk burners that turned there stoves in because they couldn't get heat or long burn times due to the setup having over draft issues. He maybe in the same ball park. The problem is the t-stat, the t-stat will open and let air in, it is turned for to run at .05in w.c. at high, anything more the fire will burn to hot and you will degrade your cat, over fire the stove and not have the true BK experience.
Suppose he tries to compensate the t-stat by keeping it at a low setting he will still have burning issues, if the stove isn't warmed up the t-stat will open cause a bellow effect shortening the burn times, then theres the issue for the heat the stove produces literally being sucked up the flu, so the t-stat will keep opening.
In his case this is were manual air control stoves are better, you can more or less fool the stove by installing a manual damper, blocking the main air inlet (or sec tube inlet for epa) and use your air control rod to damper the fire at lower levels.

Got it, make sense.

 

[kennyp2339]

Got it, make sense.

Not bad for waiting at a red light in rush hour typing on a small *^&% phone

 

[showrguy]

Uh oh, you sooteated your probe meter!

So 2500# of oak. Is that like 3/4 of a cord?

Here it is in my manual on Page 28:


THERMOMETER


The combustor thermometer tells you what was happening 4-8 minutes ago. And remember, it is only an

indication of the temperatures of the gasses, after they pass through the combustor. The thermometer probe,

the part that fits into the stove, must be cleaned at least once a year. Lift it from the stove (be careful, it may be

hot) and wipe or scrape it clean. At room temperature, away from the stove, the indicator should point near the

bottom of the “Inactive” zone. If, after several years use, you find that the needle no longer points to the bottom


of the “Inactive” zone when the thermometer has been at room temperature for 10 minutes or longer, it may


need adjustment. Holding the probe with a pair of pliers, loosen the bolt on the top of the dial. Turn the dial to


align the pointer with the bottom of the “Inactive” zone, then retighten the bolt.

Note: If your Blaze King is equipped with optional fans, turn off fans and wait 10 minutes prior to reading

catalytic thermometer indicator. Air movement across the top of the stove may provide false reading.

Actually that maybe to much chimney, years ago there were a couple bk burners that turned there stoves in because they couldn't get heat or long burn times due to the setup having over draft issues. He maybe in the same ball park. The problem is the t-stat, the t-stat will open and let air in, it is turned for to run at .05in w.c. at high, anything more the fire will burn to hot and you will degrade your cat, over fire the stove and not have the true BK experience.
Suppose he tries to compensate the t-stat by keeping it at a low setting he will still have burning issues, if the stove isn't warmed up the t-stat will open cause a bellow effect shortening the burn times, then theres the issue for the heat the stove produces literally being sucked up the flu, so the t-stat will keep opening.
In his case this is were manual air control stoves are better, you can more or less fool the stove by installing a manual damper, blocking the main air inlet (or sec tube inlet for epa) and use your air control rod to damper the fire at lower levels.

 

[showrguy]

Thanks Kenny,
My stove is working great..
My thought might be that I have too much draft, and suffering somewhat, even though I'm 100% satisfied with what this thing is doing currently, possibly it could be even better ??
I dunno.... The nanometer should tell us more..
I was hoping someone might have run into a similar situation like mine.....bhollar/be green/ just to name a few..
Thanks..

 

[kf6hap]

One way to sense the firebox pressure (vacuum actually) is to remove the cat thermostat and slip a piece of 1/4" copper tubing down the hole. I used a .2" WC magnehelic. Mine, on a 17' flue went somewhat over .05 at 650 or so. The indicated pressure will be purely flue stack temperature dependent. The .05 is only a ballpark number. You can be a lot higher.

 

[Ashful]

The nanometer should tell us more..

Nanometer = 1 millionth of one millimeter, very small.

Manometer = a column of liquid used to measure pressure differential.

 

[showrguy]

That's funny ash full..
Okay, I spewled it wrong !!

 

[huauqui]

That's funny ash full..
Okay, I spewled it wrong !!

LOL

 

[kf6hap]

FYI a standard "slack-tube " manometer does not read fine enough as .05" is very difficult to see. A digital unit or a magnehelic will work.

 

[Marshy]

I just caught up on about 6 or so pages of reading so forgive me.

So here is why I don't consider that important for operation. Following the directions and engaging the cat when the cat meter (even delayed) says "active" is conservative and means that the cat really really is ready. That's a good thing. Wife can load as soon as the meter says active just like the owner's manual dictates. Some cat manufacturers even suggest that you should maintain active temperatures for 20-30 minutes before engaging the cat.

You have told me there is a chance you can damage the stove by leaving the bypass open too long... I'm surprised you didn't mention that here as a disclaimer.

My question regarding creosote though is specifically about creosote in the chimney which sounds like isn't an issue for you. So obviously like any stove, good burning practices and good fuel basically negate creosote concerns. But what I'm curious about is if people have noticed a tendency to creo up a bit more or risk of it happening quickly and building up fast during times of low burning and warm outdoor temps?

I'm curious too if it's others experience that they mostly run just the same setting throughout the burning season?

You can have good burning practices and still have a creosote issue, I am proof of that! Creosote is generated when the flue temp lowers enough for the condensable gasses to return to liquid state. If you have a masonry chimney like me you run the risk of creosote because of the large thermal mass of the chimney cools the flue gas too much before it exits, even if you have the required draft. If you are getting that situation and running the stove on high like I am then the only solution is reduce the heat loss or add more heat to the flue, I.E. get a different stove with higher flue temperatures or install an insulated liner to reduce the heat loss.

The BK operated primarily as intended (low/medium output) makes creosote at a higher rate than a non-cat but not unreasonable, you can still make it through the season safely burning on low without sweeping if you do everything right. I would have thought that the cat stoves would have super clean flues but no, and low flue temps are the culprit I suspect. Those guys burning on high settings all the time should have cleaner flues.

In the warm weather I definitely use a higher setting. This is due to the lower draft strength but when you think about it the higher setting doesn't actually correspond with a higher burn rate in this case. The weaker draft pulls the same amount of air through the larger opening so it's a wash. Burn times are unchanged. My house needs less heat when it's warm so I let the fire go out between loads. Additional creo deposits are more likely due to more cold starts with the cat bypassed.

The guys with really tall flues that get strong draft even when it's very warm out are more able to utilize low burn rates in the warm weather.

The quickest I've ever seen gunk build up was when I tried for the ultra low burn, active cat and very low setting. Internal flue temps were just 250 and it only took a week to start plugging the cap. You've got to maintain flue temperatures above the condensation point.

I burn on high and have a dirty flue at the top. As you already know, the heat transfer of the system can play a big roll in how clean the chimney stays. On warmer days I will burn a smaller load of wood on high as apposed to turning the tsat down. I don't have a flue probe but I've measured the surface temp on the double wall pipe 2' from the flue collar at 300F and I was able to measure the actual masonry chimney block 1' above the thimble and it was at 160F. I wanted to get inside the chimney chase way and measure the masonry block temp near the top of the chimney but couldn't because the family was sleeping. If I get another chance I will try. It doesn't mean anything, information only I suppose.

There are cases reported every year of gummed up chimneys that are not the wood. The issue in those cases typically are too much heat loss in the single-wall connector due to a long run or notably long horiz. section, heat loss in a very tall exterior chimney, air leakage into the flue system (cleanout door leaking, poor flue collar seal, etc.), and user operation, running the stove at a low flue temp for a long period of time.

Good reply. The commonality for many is heat loss of the flue gas for one reason or another. Feel free to add thermal mass of a masonry chimney.

Some of you guys have way more range of use when it comes to the thermostat than I do..
I'm wondering if I might have too much draft ??
Coming off of the stove is roughly 15' of black double wall, then into ceiling box, then approx 18' of class A, through the attic, and out through the roof..
All in a straight line..
King ultra stove, 8" pipe..
Brother in law is bringing a nanometer home from work, hope to check this weekend..
Should chimney be up to temp, warm, or cold, when checking ????
Thanks,

If you pack the stove full and operate it at your desired heat level, what position is the thermostat at and how long does the load last before you have to refuel? Overdraft would cause heat loss up the chimney pipe and could also cause short burn times.

 

[Highbeam]

You have told me there is a chance you can damage the stove by leaving the bypass open too long... I'm surprised you didn't mention that here as a disclaimer.

You can damage the stove by leaving the bypass open too long. Also, some cat manufacturers suggest that you should maintain active temperatures for 20-30 minutes before engaging the cat. BK tells us to engage as soon as the meter reads active and that is what I do. How long you wait after the cat meter reads active is up to you but if you wait too long, you will regret it.

 

[showrguy]

Marshy,
I hardly ever pack the box full, last night I did, filled it about 10;30 with cherry, at 5am I raked the coals (firebox was full of coals) added 1 small round, went back to bed, it's now 2;30 , I just got home the coals are burnt down pretty good cat temp is 493deg. Soon time to add some wood..
T-stat was set around 4 o'clock, mid/low 30's overnight, house was 74 @ 5am., 73 now..
So 16 hrs. Burn time roughly without the best hardwood I have..

 

[Woody Stover]

some cat manufacturers suggest that you should maintain active temperatures for 20-30 minutes before engaging the cat.

Which mfrs. are those?

T-stat was set around 4 o'clock, mid/low 30's overnight

Draft will definitely increase in cold weather...

 

[Highbeam]

Which mfrs. are those?

Both firecat (I think that is who BKVP recommended) and condar say that. I found that tidbit while looking to see that they both also recommend pipe cleaners to scrub out the cells!