2015-2016 Blaze King Performance thread (Everything BK)

[Poindexter]

I can't figure out a 12 hour load schedule. I'm burning soft maple and cherry. It's been colder here so I have been running the stove at like the 4 o'clock position. And I'm still going 18 or so hours. Should I just load the stove half full? And hope it last 12 hours? What do you guys do for 12 hour reloads. The stove is an ashford 30.1.

Every twelve hours I flip the lever to bypass and shine a bright light through the glass. Go get some wood, just enough to fill it. Open the door. Fill firebox to absolute max. Let new pieces catch good with door cracked. Close door. Re-engage cat. Adjust Tstat as needed. Repeat in 12 hours.

I do sift ashes out once or twice a week, burn coals down once a week.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Question: I just had my Sirocco 30.1 installed, and am waiting on the blessing of the building inspector. I did not buy the fans, and have no intention of ever doing so, but neither did I buy the convection deck. That one, I'd like to know more about. Does it make a real difference in the effect of the stove, or its it mostly there for looks, which I don't need? Would maybe one of those heat driven stove top fans accomplish the same thing? We had an old Franklin stove here, that could put out about 150,000 BTUS when cranking, but had about a 3 hour burn time and very low efficiency. This stove is only supposed to put out about 38,000 BTUs, so I'm wondering if any of this stuff will make it any more effective.

 

[blueguy]

The convection deck needs the fans to work right - the eco fan doesn't draw enough air to really take advantage of it. That being said, I have the convection deck and Eco fan on my stove, and the Eco fan pushes just enough air to circulate out into the stove room.

Edit: the convection deck isn't for looks, it works very very well.

 

[jetsam]

Dear Blaze King:

Last year it was 55 degrees in my house all winter and I had a $3000 oil bill. This year I have a new house and a new wood stove.

My oil bill has gone down a little, but my delivery man is less happy than he used to be.


However, my dog is happier than she used to be.



We keep the temperature a few degrees above 55 in the house now.



In closing, thank you for making this box which takes wood in and turns it into happiness.

When my dog finishes cooking herself, I will send you a slice.

Sincerely,

Jetsam

 

[Ashful]

View attachment 171282

Priceless!

 

[BKVP]

Dear Blaze King:

Last year it was 55 degrees in my house all winter and I had a $3000 oil bill. This year I have a new house and a new wood stove.

My oil bill has gone down a little, but my delivery man is less happy than he used to be.
View attachment 171281

However, my dog is happier than she used to be.

View attachment 171282

We keep the temperature a few degrees above 55 in the house now.

View attachment 171283

In closing, thank you for making this box which takes wood in and turns it into happiness.

When my dog finishes cooking herself, I will send you a slice.

Sincerely,

Jetsam

Jetsam,

Please pm me your dogs full name and address.

Thank you,
BKVP
Blaze King's Official Dog Lover

 

[jeff_t]

That's good.

My cat has been well into the 120s before.

 

[MtnBURN]

At the risk of being told to use the search feature/blahblahblah.... I'm gonna ask a question anyway.....such is what these forums are for, correct? ;-)

Got Princess #2 in operation this week. We had an issue with the door...BK came through...but now we are up and running.

Stove #2 is in located the shop. My goal in heating this area is to keep things from freezing...so I wasn't planning on feeding this stove as I do the Princess in the house. Kind of an "every other day" thing...as needed approach. My question/scenario is this.... with sporadic operation...will building a fire....engaging the cat...and letting the fire die off overnight with the cat still engage kill/damage the cat over time? (I can adjust my thoughts easily/timing of fires if needed)

Your insight is much appreciated.

 

[webby3650]

At the risk of being told to use the search feature/blahblahblah.... I'm gonna ask a question anyway.....such is what these forums are for, correct? ;-)

Got Princess #2 in operation this week. We had an issue with the door...BK came through...but now we are up and running.

Stove #2 is in located the shop. My goal in heating this area is to keep things from freezing...so I wasn't planning on feeding this stove as I do the Princess in the house. Kind of an "every other day" thing...as needed approach. My question/scenario is this.... with sporadic operation...will building a fire....engaging the cat...and letting the fire die off overnight with the cat still engage kill/damage the cat over time? (I can adjust my thoughts easily/timing of fires if needed)

Your insight is much appreciated.

Not at all, go for it!

 

[Highbeam]

At the risk of being told to use the search feature/blahblahblah.... I'm gonna ask a question anyway.....such is what these forums are for, correct? ;-)

Got Princess #2 in operation this week. We had an issue with the door...BK came through...but now we are up and running.

Stove #2 is in located the shop. My goal in heating this area is to keep things from freezing...so I wasn't planning on feeding this stove as I do the Princess in the house. Kind of an "every other day" thing...as needed approach. My question/scenario is this.... with sporadic operation...will building a fire....engaging the cat...and letting the fire die off overnight with the cat still engage kill/damage the cat over time? (I can adjust my thoughts easily/timing of fires if needed)

Your insight is much appreciated.

When the fuel runs out the cat will go inactive and then cold and will sit there waiting for you to do it again. This applies to your house stove too, don't feel like you have to disengage the cat when the cat meter goes inactive at the end of the burn.

 

[Ashful]

I think that any time you temperature cycle a welded metal box, you are shortening its life, versus a box that's held at a constant temperature. However, I'm guessing the firebox is probably not the first thing to fail on most of these stoves, so that theoretical statement may not mean much in reality.

Cat's are going to cycle, whether in your house stove from 500 to 1500, or in the shop from 50 to 1500F. What's an extra 450 degrees on 1000 going to do to it? Not much.

 

[Niko]

I noticed the glass turned to a grey color the other day. Anyone know what this is?

 

[MiserableOldFart]

I think that any time you temperature cycle a welded metal box, you are shortening its life, versus a box that's held at a constant temperature. However, I'm guessing the firebox is probably not the first thing to fail on most of these stoves, so that theoretical statement may not mean much in reality.

Cat's are going to cycle, whether in your house stove from 500 to 1500, or in the shop from 50 to 1500F. What's an extra 450 degrees on 1000 going to do to it? Not much.

I have a cat stove next door and have a combustor in it that sat in an unheated house for about 15 years before I got around to using it. Works fine. Gets the full cycle now that it's in use, too. As long as you don't overfire a stove, the box should last long enough until the stove is obsolete. Just lit my new BK Sirocco here for the first time a couple hours ago. Still have windows open due to paint curing smell, but appears to be running well, and kicking out enough heat on low that it's liveable in a house with open windows and 26 outside. I expect the smell to begin weakening within the next hour or so.

My old Dutchwest cat next door is cast iron, and has no welds, only lots of joints sealed with stove putty. This time around I went with steel because the BK seemed to be the best stove around, and I didn't want to pay extra for a cast iron facade on the thing. I would think these stoves should outlast any of us old enough to read these boards.

I am hoping that with the new stove, tonight starts my new era of being able to sleep. Since this stove was delivered on 11/11, I have have had no wood stove, awaiting the chimney work that was finished yesterday and the sanctifcation of the building inspector. Now I hope my cats won't be sleeping on me.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

The convection deck needs the fans to work right - the eco fan doesn't draw enough air to really take advantage of it. That being said, I have the convection deck and Eco fan on my stove, and the Eco fan pushes just enough air to circulate out into the stove room.

Edit: the convection deck isn't for looks, it works very very well.

I'm not a believer in fans for wood stoves, and I'm still not convinced on the convection deck. If the stove has a given amount of heat going up the chimney and a given amount of heat radiating (some convecting) off of it, and the convection deck and/or fans don't actually affect the burn efficiency of the stove, it's arguable that the only difference any doodads could make would be in the evenness of the heat, and not in the heat output itself. I never had a problem with the evenness of heat with our old Franklin, though of course, that thing likely put out well over 100,000 btus when cranking, so I'm holding off on convection deck, which can always be added later. Your point about the eco fan is well taken, though, and I think I'll skip that too. First couple nights below zero, and I'll know for sure if I would want it.

 

[blueguy]

If the stove has a given amount of heat going up the chimney and a given amount of heat radiating (some convecting) off of it, and the convection deck and/or fans don't actually affect the burn efficiency of the stove, it's arguable that the only difference any doodads could make would be in the evenness of the heat, and not in the heat output itself.

With the fans running, far more of the heat gets out quicker, reducing the burn times. It's a well documented phenomenon that's been discussed a lot here. When I bought my Sirocco, I ordered it with the fans and convection deck due to me heating from the basement, and I have only used them a handful of times as the stove heats this place very well without fans except in the Arctic vortexes. When they are running, the temp reading on the upstairs thermostat starts climbing quickly. The downside is the fans are noisy.

I bought the Eco fan when I had the Napoleon 1450 thinking they worked as well as advertised, and just kept it when I installed the Sirocco - while sitting up close in front of it spinning, I can feel the warm breeze pushing out but it's definitely not a substitute for a real blower.

I definitely wouldn't discount getting the deck and blowers - they aren't a gimmick.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Yep, got the blowers.

As to slower convective heating overcoming heat loss, I don't know. I look at it much differently. I have these enormous heat sinks as my exterior walls. They're un-insulated stone (as any proper old house is), which stay at 52F all winter long, whether it's 60F or 80F indoors, or 0F to 30F outdoors. If you put a radiant stove next to that heat sink, it's just going to suck up all the energy that you radiate toward it, leaving only a fraction of the heat you're producing for heating your home. At the same time, my boiler has relatively little trouble heating the same space from 60F to 70F in a short period of time, via convective copper fin-tube radiators. So, the key seems to be heating the air within. Forget ever trying to heat this space by radiating energy into the objects around the stoves, since 80% of the objects facing the stove are cold stone, well-sunk to earth.

I have hard data to back up this thinking, as the amount of wood I've consumed over the last four years has a BTU value several times the relatively small amount of oil I've saved. Burning 5 - 6 cords per year, I was saving maybe only 500 gallons per year, based on the short periods of no burning I have to compare. That amount of wood (all ash, oak, walnut) should have BTU equivalence to almost 1000 gallons of heating oil, so even though my estimated savings are definitely subject to debate, there's no arguing I was throwing away a large chunk of the heating coming off those Jotuls.

Ashful- I am real interested in your post here. I live in an old stone house as well, and this is our first winter here. I agree with what you say, but our hot water goes to cast iron radiators. Knowing what you now know about your house and your stoves, if you had to do it all over again, which stoves would you buy, and why?

 

[Ashful]

Ashful- I am real interested in your post here. I live in an old stone house as well, and this is our first winter here. I agree with what you say, but our hot water goes to cast iron radiators. Knowing what you now know about your house and your stoves, if you had to do it all over again, which stoves would you buy, and why?

Nice! I grew up in a house with cast iron baseboards, and wish I had them here. Are your CI radiators vertical or baseboard?

This winter has been so warm compared to the last few, and it's too early to have any real data on how well the Ashfords are doing, versus my old stoves. However, I do have a sense they're doing much better, and stand by what I said in that old post, about radiant heat being less effective in the heating of an uninsulated stone house. So, if I were to buy a new stove today, I'd be looking at the Ashford again. As much as I am continually frustrated by the ash drawer problem (I dropped piles of ashes on the floor under both of my stoves again tonight!), I do believe a convective stove is the way to go in a stone house, and I don't believe there's any convective stove on the market that runs as nice as a BK.

Since you're in SE PA, I'd recommend Fireplace and Chimney Professionals, in Kintersville. They gave me a great deal on my stoves, and had a knowledgeable staff. They were willing to deliver to me, even though I'm not exactly local to them, and there are several closer BK dealers.

 

[webby3650]

I'd let go of mine for the right price. It's also got the optional oil drip kit installed!

For the record, this is not my stove.. I thought y'all would get a kick out of it.
It's really Chris's stove!

 

[SCOTT S.]

I know this is not news to anyone here but I am a year and a half into my bk experience, and my wife is sick of hearing it but this thing is freaking amazing. Last night was down to 15 degrees with a high of 32 and I dugout some 3 year old oak and am at the end of a 20 hour burn with the stove room at 74 and bedroom at 67. I am not a bandwagon type of guy but seriously why buy anything else?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Nice! I grew up in a house with cast iron baseboards, and wish I had them here. Are your CI radiators vertical or baseboard?

This winter has been so warm compared to the last few, and it's too early to have any real data on how well the Ashfords are doing, versus my old stoves. However, I do have a sense they're doing much better, and stand by what I said in that old post, about radiant heat being less effective in the heating of an uninsulated stone house. So, if I were to buy a new stove today, I'd be looking at the Ashford again. As much as I am continually frustrated by the ash drawer problem (I dropped piles of ashes on the floor under both of my stoves again tonight!), I do believe a convective stove is the way to go in a stone house, and I don't believe there's any convective stove on the market that runs as nice as a BK.

Since you're in SE PA, I'd recommend Fireplace and Chimney Professionals, in Kintersville. They gave me a great deal on my stoves, and had a knowledgeable staff. They were willing to deliver to me, even though I'm not exactly local to them, and there are several closer BK dealers.

Thanks Ashful. Totally agree with your observation that the thick stone walls and chimneys are giant heat sinks. The radiators are vertical, and because our space is limited, we've considered switching to either the aluminum fin baseboard an/or radiant in-floor. I've never seen CI baseboard, I'll have to look for that and check it out. You think that is still an available option? I'll definitely check out the stove shop you mentioned, although it'll probably be a while before we are in the market for a new stove. A free standing stove was not an option in our small, low ceiling spaces that are in the stone portion of our house where the chimneys are, but I'll definitely be looking at the BK should we ever add on to this house or we move. In the meantime, the blower on the insert is doing a nice job getting heat off the insert, and we just have some work to do on tightening up the insulation on the place. I also think I can do better on my block off plate in the chimney.

 

[Ashful]

Cool. Well, with a blower on an insert, you've got some convection going, there. What year is the house?

I've seen CI baseboard installed recently, but don't know if it was new or salvaged. In terms of performance, I'm sure fin tube has a higher convective heat transfer coefficient, but CI just looks so much nicer.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Cool. Well, with a blower on an insert, you've got some convection going, there. What year is the house?

I've seen CI baseboard installed recently, but don't know if it was new or salvaged. In terms of performance, I'm sure fin tube has a higher convective heat transfer coefficient, but CI just looks so much nicer.

The house is late 1700's with a couple of later additions. Yours? Even with the additions, our place is small, but drafty! Any recommendations on insulating the place? I read your thread on your outbuilding, but I'm more referring to the stone house. I have no intention of tearing the plaster down beyond the ceiling which I did on the main room to expose the wood joists and give the illusion of more space- the ceilings are only about 6'6". Love the house, but could do without the drafts. I am sure you understand.

 

[Ashful]

Cool! Mine has parts that might date to 1734, but the main house is 1776-1779, with additions in the 1890's and 1990's.

Created new thread to discuss houses, so we don't muck up the BK thread with a lot of house talk.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/index.php?threads/Insulating-18th-century-stone-house.151700/

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Rethinking on the fan and deck, not about buying them, but about their effect. IF the fans are taking cold air from near the floor and blowing it thru the deck over the part of the stove past the combustor, where the convection deck sits, then it implies that the deck would indeed be scavenging some of the heat off that part of the stove, thereby lowering, a bit, the temperature under it, and actually bringing out some BTUS that might not be gotten otherwise. I'll ruminate on it, but still don't like the idea of fans on a wood stove.

 

[Ashful]

Yes. Even ignoring any BTU/h change (see post #1390 by blueguy), running fans will increase the rate of convective heat transfer, in exchange for lowering surface temp and thus radiant heat transfer. For those of us with large radiant sinks (eg. exterior masonry walls line-of-sight to stove), this is a huge advantage. For those with all objects line-of-sight to the stove which may be within the insulated envelope of the home, it will have much less effect on overall BTU kept within the heated envelope, but will have an effect on personal comfort to due the differences in how radiant vs. convective heat is perceived.

That said, running fans does have the effect of increasing BTU/h from the stove, at least toward the end of the burn cycle when the thermostat is reacting to the cooling of the stove. This can be countered by simply adjusting your thermostat lower, so it's not of primary consideration. What may be of primary consideration to some, is that convective heat transfer can heat the air in your space much faster than radiation alone, in case of trying to bring a cold house up to temperature.

I run my fans on low 24/7, to maximize convection while keeping fan noise as minimal as possible. I fit the profile described in my first paragraph, as my stoves are completely surrounded by un-insulated stone walls, which are exterior-adjacent. They will suck up most of the heat radiated from the stove, while grabbing a much smaller fraction of what is put directly into the air.