2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

kf6hap said:

Once the gasket gets replaced say good-bye to all "trick" burning to avoid the small. Then life will be warm and fuzzy once again.

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The Princess door can’t be shimmed out, it slides down on pins with no adjustment.

If the hinge side on a Princess needs to be tightened up I’d think a thin shim under the correct 7/8” gasket on the hinge side would be the best way to go.

I have a princess and have had a smell at times if I put my nose and inch away from the stove. I solved most of this years ago with improving the flue system by removing 90’s and improving the pipe to stove connection.

kf6hap said:

I am on my 3rd year of this cat and see significantly more smoke so I guess a new cat is in order for next year. Cat replacement every 3 years makes sense as it will be well past the 10,000 hour mark. This being my primary heat source and burning for 6 months each year 4 of which are 24/7, it all adds up. As for heating and light off in reasonable times- yes it still does. Quite well too. I just don't like the pollution. For easy figuring 10,000 hours is a year and two months. It is taking about an hour for the smoke to thin out to "water clear". When new about 1/2 hour.

Anybody know how long the acid wash lasts?

Cat replacement every 3 years seems reasonable to me and is certainly worth it for the way the stove operates and the fantastic savings in wood.

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I too find the rapidly diminished performance of a worn out cat unacceptable. I performed a full vinegar boil on my last dead cat and it worked pretty well for about 3 more months before going right back to dead. I didn’t try again since a new cat is so cheap. The new cat performed much better than the pickled cat and continues to perform.

It’s no badge of honor to continue burning on a dead or mostly dead cat. More pollution, less efficiency, dirty flue, shorter burn times. A fresh cat will bring your stove back.

Highbeam said:

It’s no badge of honor to continue burning on a dead or mostly dead cat. More pollution, less efficiency, dirty flue, shorter burn times. A fresh cat will bring your stove back.

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I hear you! I had one dying and chugged along with it for a bit. I now get to look up at the top of my chimney and see all the black creosote staining on the first couple rows of bricks.

kf6hap said:

No, I disagree! HOW you burn should not have any impact on "smoke smell". None at all, and that is a good thing. That is provided the flue is correct and the wood is dry.

The gasket was sent to me by BK so I don't know the actual size but is is significantly larger. The door had to be shimmed out a little to accommodate the replacement gasket. This was done by the installing stove company. They were sent the gasket, shims and an installation procedure sheet. Nothing special about replacing the gasket. It was just larger.

Once the gasket gets replaced say good-bye to all "trick" burning to avoid the small. Then life will be warm and fuzzy once again.

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Tx for responding to the how vs. shouldn't have to. I agree. Have been trying to figure this out to no joy for months. The smoke smell is virtually constant, less so with bypass open. But still there. Have had to perform far more maintenance on this BKP than I've ever had to do. Am exhausted. And can never get to acceptable smoke smell. I appreciate those who recommend techniques... but per the gentleman's response above... shouldn't have to.

rdust said:

The Princess door can’t be shimmed out, it slides down on pins with no adjustment.

If the hinge side on a Princess needs to be tightened up I’d think a thin shim under the correct 7/8” gasket on the hinge side would be the best way to go.

I have a princess and have had a smell at times if I put my nose and inch away from the stove. I solved most of this years ago with improving the flue system by removing 90’s and improving the pipe to stove connection.

View attachment 236743

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Thank for making this comment. The BKP door cannot be shimmed in the manner one thinks. Hinges are welded. I spoke with a gent yesterday who had this smoke smell and he said the solution for him after a year was a fatter gasket. I've had 4 on my setup. Without recommendation from BK yet on how to solve this, the only thing I can think of that is left is to try a larger gasket and what you say above... shimming under the gasket on the upper left to try and create a better seal. Because no matter what I do, and I have tweaked my setup ad naseum, not the least of which are the flue, pipes, etc etc... no change. Am exhausted managing this, no end in sight, 4-5 hour burns in 40 degree weather, chewing thru wood twice as fast, and constantly running forced air and open windows to keep the smoke smell at bay, that is when I run the stove, which I can't because of this... ok, off soapbox.

4 hour burns in a princess? Either you are running flat out, you are burning typing paper, or you have a very serious draft problem.

Given the height of your stack, that last one seems plausible.

Twiddling with the gaskets and door alignment is distracting you from identifying and fixing the root cause. I think if you fix the setup so the stove can operate normally, your other issue will resolve itself, too

kf6hap said:

The gasket was sent to me by BK so I don't know the actual size but is is significantly larger. The door had to be shimmed out a little to accommodate the replacement gasket. This was done by the installing stove company. They were sent the gasket, shims and an installation procedure sheet. Nothing special about replacing the gasket. It was just larger.
Once the gasket gets replaced say good-bye to all "trick" burning to avoid the small. A big shout out to Blaze King and their excellent support. It helps to call at 0758.

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At least they try to help, which is more than some stove makers would do.

drhiii said:

Have had to perform far more maintenance on this BKP than I've ever had to do. Am exhausted. And can never get to acceptable smoke smell. I appreciate those who recommend techniques... but per the gentleman's response above... shouldn't have to.

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Yep, a $3K+ stove should be ready to go, out of the box. Not as much messing around as with a VC, but a close second.

drhiii said:

The BKP door cannot be shimmed in the manner one thinks. Hinges are welded. I spoke with a gent yesterday who had this smoke smell and he said the solution for him after a year was a fatter gasket. I've had 4 on my setup. Without recommendation from BK yet on how to solve this, the only thing I can think of that is left is to try a larger gasket and what you say above... shimming under the gasket on the upper left to try and create a better seal.

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It may take some trial and error, but if you can locate the spots where the gasket needs to be shimmed, maybe you can put more silicone under that area to hold the gasket up higher?
Do they still have the nuts/screws for the glass gasket retainer in the bottom of the door gasket channel, or did they re-design that?

jetsam said:

4 hour burns in a princess?

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You have to burn a lot of wood to keep warm when your windows are wide open.

jetsam said:

4 hour burns in a princess? Either you are running flat out, you are burning typing paper, or you have a very serious draft problem.

Given the height of your stack, that last one seems plausible.

Twiddling with the gaskets and door alignment is distracting you from identifying and fixing the root cause. I think if you fix the setup so the stove can operate normally, your other issue will resolve itself, too

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If you are curious, go back and read my boring postings on this. I would absolutely like to have a normal burn cycle on this Princess. I cannot for starters because I am getting smoke smell released into the house. Virtually constantly. I cannot engage the cat much less adjust the air intake without smoke smell entering the house. It just depends on the degree. Short of it is I cannot run this cat engaged... I have to run it open bypass, like a regular stove, to get to a point where I minimize but not eliminate the smoke smell. I had installed the stove at the beginning of the season, first of Oct, and smoke smell from the first burn. Skipping a litany of adjustments I have made for the last 3 months, but some have included replacing pipe, OAK engaged, not engaged, all manner of wood load (moisture content between 4% and 11% tops, burning pinon which is primo wood), and then the original door and its gasket, then two replacement gaskets, then a replacement door for 4 total, placed a flue damper to adjust the exit flow and pressure to no avail... I could go on, and have. Oh, after getting no where, I yanked the stove and out the prior stove back in place which never gave a prob in this configuration, more than ample draft, but was encouraged to try again. It has to be a simple fix yes? Well, no.

Am not in the best of moods as I am not able to run the run the stove but when I do, I am always trying to figure something out but when it fails and dumps smoke smell, I am up all night clearing the air, opening windows, running the forced air furnace. I did last eve and am exhausted, hence pissy.

So why 4-5 hour burns? Because I can't run it any other way, when I do run it at all.

@drhiii how are the pictures of your setup coming along?

rdust said:

@drhiii how are the pictures of your setup coming along?

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Yes please. Quit jacking around with the door seal and show us the installation. As many photos as you can!

rdust said:

@drhiii how are the pictures of your setup coming along?

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I have been asked to take pics of a specific aspect of the stove. Knife edge and gasket relationship. Suppose I can post them here. Will take other pics and post them.

A picture is = to 1000 words!

Highbeam said:

Yes please. Quit jacking around with the door seal and show us the installation. As many photos as you can!

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I knew I was opening up to flames. I am following instructions. And then am trying to solve things around it. I am screwing around with far more than gaskets.

Note that only one person has come across and specifically detailed exactly the same situation I am in. It is a user. So far, not BK. And the user said the same problem was resolved with, gaskets. I can post a zillion pics. But note I am following instructions from BK offices, and now from a single user who had the exact same issue, and shared with me what it took to resolve it.

I understand about setups. But to be honest, having several other stoves in this location, if a BKP is that sensitive... well... suppose I will find this out. Am finding this out.

And look.. am frustrated because I went through a journey to get here. Contacted local BK reps, passed me to regional BK, who passed me to national BK. I have followed a proper process path. Not only is the stove not working, but the process has drug out to a ridiculous degree. And I have no hope in sight. It is an absolute risk opening up in an internet forum as BKVP wrote a few days ago. He is deadnuts correct. Not just for the varied advice, but for the emotions that can infect this. Well aware of this (I participated in one of the very first electronic BBS forums, in the world, ever, 1979, wrote a screenplay on those dynamics... so I have known the risks for decades of opening up).

So, am exhausted from a sleepness night of messing with this. And months of messing with this. Short tempered. I may have just POd the process part, and POd people off here who have offered advice electronically, but this has devolved well past a ridiculous stage. And I see no hope in sight... this while investing myself in the process side of this.

drhiii said:

this has devolved well past a ridiculous stage. And I see no hope in sight..

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You're not gonna allow yourself to be beaten by a steel box, are you?

Woody Stover said:

You're not gonna allow yourself to be beaten by a steel box, are you?

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Awesome point. And to revert to an oft quoted thing.. having 40+ years of experience, several prior stove in this location, walking 10 miles in the snow barefoot both ways uphill to school etc etc etc. No, that is why I have been stubborn. This is simple. Or should be.

I also refer to the gent two days ago who finally stated in clear terms, my situation. Because it was his situation. He did everything that I have done along the road to solving it. After all this, I would bet the farm, if I had one, that you can take this stove and install it into 10 other configurations and it would do exactly the same thing. I have had fleeting thoughts of shipping this to BK techs, wherever they reside, and asking them to install and run it, just to prove it is the stove. They can keep it. It will do exactly the same thing.

Hey, at least some of this emoting must be entertaining. Ok, to a few. Or less than a few. I have kept my sense of humor throughout most of this. Last night, and all-niter, tending to expelling smoke smell from the house because I ran a fire, tying yet again to figure this out... was not one of those humorous episodes.

And to throw my boo-hoo on this... I normally have the patience of a few saints, tho I ain't one. One does not live with someone who lives in chronic pain, a 26 year liver transplant recipient, incurring 6 total joint replacements... and who since I was a teen have loved everything about wood and wood stoves, and not have patience somewhere in the DNA. This BKP prob tho has pushed my normally patience patience.

I am reduced to two elements. Wondering if BK will ever proffer a solution, or me jury rigging a BKP door. I have gone through so many configurations, flue raised, flue lowered, flue raised more more, OAK engaged, bypassed, OAK engaged or bypassed with various flue configurations raised or lowered, loading techniques, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc... the only thing I have not done is a manometer test but if I don't yank this soon, will perform that. Never had to across several stoves. But we like science for sure.

Ok... hopefully the above was entertaining to some. Annoying to most fer sure. I don't want a little 'ol stove to beat me, but this whole this has made no sense. Except executing the myriad of things done, I defer to the gent two days ago who said it makes no sense, this smoke smell, and the solution is... well.. will see if I can get there.

kf6hap said:

I just got off of the phone talking to Francico and he says the larger replacement gasket for the Ashford is a 1". The part number is 155-0188 and can be ordered through your local dealer. Don't forget shims must be ordered and the instruction sheet too. This is for the Ashford only but for the Princess I asked him the diameter of the factory gasket, it is 7/8", so replacing it with the 1" might work too. The Ashford fix is factory proven, the Princess is not but is very well worth a try if needed.

A big shout out to Blaze King and their excellent support. It helps to call at 0758.

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Ashford 20? 25? Or 30?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

drhiii said:

If you are curious, go back and read my boring postings on this. I would absolutely like to have a normal burn cycle on this Princess. I cannot for starters because I am getting smoke smell released into the house. Virtually constantly. I cannot engage the cat much less adjust the air intake without smoke smell entering the house. It just depends on the degree. Short of it is I cannot run this cat engaged... I have to run it open bypass, like a regular stove, to get to a point where I minimize but not eliminate the smoke smell. I had installed the stove at the beginning of the season, first of Oct, and smoke smell from the first burn. Skipping a litany of adjustments I have made for the last 3 months, but some have included replacing pipe, OAK engaged, not engaged, all manner of wood load (moisture content between 4% and 11% tops, burning pinon which is primo wood), and then the original door and its gasket, then two replacement gaskets, then a replacement door for 4 total, placed a flue damper to adjust the exit flow and pressure to no avail... I could go on, and have. Oh, after getting no where, I yanked the stove and out the prior stove back in place which never gave a prob in this configuration, more than ample draft, but was encouraged to try again. It has to be a simple fix yes? Well, no.

Am not in the best of moods as I am not able to run the run the stove but when I do, I am always trying to figure something out but when it fails and dumps smoke smell, I am up all night clearing the air, opening windows, running the forced air furnace. I did last eve and am exhausted, hence pissy.

So why 4-5 hour burns? Because I can't run it any other way, when I do run it at all.

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i'm on my second season with my BK, but i'm concerned for you when you say you're running your stove with the bypass open all the time now to mitigate your smell issues. how do you make sure you're not overfiring your stove, or flirting with a chimney fire? this sounds dangerous to me, knowing how my fire roars if i'm bringing it up to active with the bypass open. i think you're running some safety risks by operating your stove against the manufacturers instructions. please be safe.

drhiii said:

I would bet the farm, if I had one, that you can take this stove and install it into 10 other configurations and it would do exactly the same thing. I have had fleeting thoughts of shipping this to BK techs, wherever they reside, and asking them to install and run it, just to prove it is the stove. They can keep it. It will do exactly the same thing.

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I'm pretty sure they already know they have some problems. It may only be with some of the stoves, since many other owners have no problem, or at least less problems. Maybe it is manufacturing tolerances, some come out OK, some don't. Or design problems. Maybe they need to do more in-depth R&D before they put their products on the market. I'd think they'd have the money to do that, if they so chose. Seems it would be cheaper and less hassle to catch the problems up front in development than to try to deal with 'em later, and way cheaper than a recall, or worse a re-design. But what do I know, I'm no stove-maker/seller. I'm only guessing as to what might be going on, based on my own prejudices. In any case, as long as any bad press they get doesn't hurt their sales too much, I don't guess it's an issue. Their marketing approach is apparently working..

We are pretty warm today and going to be close to 60 tomorrow. I shut down the insert this morning to clean my chimney. We have been going pretty much constantly since October with up and down temperatures and wood that could be better. I’ve definitely been through the learning curve with this stove and have planned on sweeping several times this winter just to keep an eye on things.

I was pleasantly surprised when I climbed up there. The first three inches of the liner had some light flaky stuff my gloved hand knocked loose. The cap had a little bit of buildup under the top. The rest of the liner had nothing at all. I couldn’t believe it. I ran the brush through it since I was there and got nothing but dust. I’m still not getting the super long burn times they advertised but I am happy with what I am getting and always have coals left to start a new fire. So far I couldn’t be happier with this stove.

Woody Stover said:

Yep, a $3K+ stove should be ready to go, out of the box. Not as much messing around as with a VC, but a close second.
It may take some trial and error, but if you can locate the spots where the gasket needs to be shimmed, maybe you can put more silicone under that area to hold the gasket up higher?
You have to burn a lot of wood to keep warm when your windows are wide open.

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That is what I thought. Stove of this level should be ready to go out of the box. My experience has changed this perception.

That is where I am.. unless something else comes down the pike. Fatter gasket, and a method to bolster the upper left quadrant of the gasket as you muse. Hinge side I might add. Have gone through so many iterations of configuration... am at the crazy ideas stage. As in actually had an engineer look at this and in seconds speculated there was a cyclone effect in the firebox.. something that had been explained to me by someone who went through this. The engineer, after listening to the stages I have reconfigured, said he would try and fashion a plate to weld on the inside of the firebox to alter the flow of air near the hinge side to... nevermind. Was like OMG, crazy idea stage for sure. Am so far from out of the box'.,, insert a measure of nervous, hysterical, not normal normal laughter at that point. The engineer was like.. back off slowly.

And yassir, burning twice as much wood when I run this which I can only do to try and figure things out. At that rate, it is cheaper to run the forced air than try and run the stove, which I can't anyway unless in open bypass mode. Which only diminishes the smoke smell, but not enough to live in it still. I can't even run this stove like a non-cat stove.

drhiii said:

That is what I thought. Stove of this level should be ready to go out of the box. My experience has changed this perception.

That is where I am.. unless something else comes down the pike. Fatter gasket, and a method to bolster the upper left quadrant of the gasket as you muse. Hinge side I might add. Have gone through so many iterations of configuration... am at the crazy ideas stage. As in actually had an engineer look at this and in seconds speculated there was a cyclone effect in the firebox.. something that had been explained to me by someone who went through this. The engineer, after listening to the stages I have reconfigured, said he would try and fashion a plate to weld on the inside of the firebox to alter the flow of air near the hinge side to... nevermind. Was like OMG, crazy idea stage for sure. Am so far from out of the box'.,, insert a measure of nervous, hysterical, not normal normal laughter at that point. The engineer was like.. back off slowly.

And yassir, burning twice as much wood when I run this which I can only do to try and figure things out. At that rate, it is cheaper to run the forced air than try and run the stove, which I can't anyway unless in open bypass mode. Which only diminishes the smoke smell, but not enough to live in it still. I can't even run this stove like a non-cat stove.

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You Sir , have a gift for writing. And yet, No pictures of your set up................................................???

drhiii said:

That is what I thought. Stove of this level should be ready to go out of the box. My experience has changed this perception.

That is where I am.. unless something else comes down the pike. Fatter gasket, and a method to bolster the upper left quadrant of the gasket as you muse. Hinge side I might add. Have gone through so many iterations of configuration... am at the crazy ideas stage. As in actually had an engineer look at this and in seconds speculated there was a cyclone effect in the firebox.. something that had been explained to me by someone who went through this. The engineer, after listening to the stages I have reconfigured, said he would try and fashion a plate to weld on the inside of the firebox to alter the flow of air near the hinge side to... nevermind. Was like OMG, crazy idea stage for sure. Am so far from out of the box'.,, insert a measure of nervous, hysterical, not normal normal laughter at that point. The engineer was like.. back off slowly.

And yassir, burning twice as much wood when I run this which I can only do to try and figure things out. At that rate, it is cheaper to run the forced air than try and run the stove, which I can't anyway unless in open bypass mode. Which only diminishes the smoke smell, but not enough to live in it still. I can't even run this stove like a non-cat stove.

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You had a combustion engineer look it over? Awesome! What other stove manufacturers has he worked with?
I’ve missed a lot of this thread becuase of work. Have you ever posted pics of your install? I remember asking for a look, but don’t remember seeing any. Also, where’s your dealer been during all this?

Some of that "opening up" stuff....

First...the manometer reading would be interesting to see...as would pictures of your set up...but I get not posting them. LOL (see below)

Either way...following along sporadically...I have to mention noting the mention of "forced air" alot in your posts.

Forgive me if this is a retread/if I missed the info I'm about to ask....I know you're burned out on this....and wow KUDOS for hanging in there. Anytime "shat happens" it just isn't fun. I just wanted to relay an experience I had here...in case...well....in case....

Are you sure the smell is originating @ or around the door? is the "smoke smell" pre-cat type smell...like smoky burning wood..or apres-cat type smell with that coalish-kinda thing going on?? Gotta wonder...if somehow the forced air heater/etc. isn't playing into this smell?

Real world situation: In my GH heater application I worked up (I'm a rookie...these guys would laugh so no pics have been provided of the old range hood hovering over the Princess collecting hot air ...LOL)...I am pulling air in to a shed where the stove is loacted to use as a "plenum" of sorts to then create a "forced air" situation where heat is then blown into the GH...

I have a rheostat on the fan on this set up and it was a...and continues to be...a slightly touchy situation in that I found that..even with an OAK....if I turn that fan up too much (like..maybe...your heater fan motor????) i'll get a weird backdraft of smell air coming down the outside channel of the double wall pipe around the flue collar at the top of the stove..and because the air is pulled off the top of the stove...the smell transfers into the GH. No VISIBLE smoke...but a nasty smell just the same.

It is easily recognizable as cat smell smoke....so i knew instantly it wasn't back drafting from the stove/around a gasket. Dunno WHY it does this...but if the airflow is too great...there's a definite smell.

Neither of my other TWO Princesses smell one iota..beyond...well..you know...just that "stove" smell as dust burns off/it smells "hot" every so often or that little bit of smoke that sometimes just can't be contained on a reload/etc. whaffs out into the room.

Anyway...again...kudos for hanging in there. I would think BK would want to get to the bottom of this and hope they/you can find a common ground fix/etc. >Something< definitely isn't right....and if you got a "lemon"...something should be done...somehow (BKVP..do you ski? LOL) to detect and fix that sucka...pronto. It IS alot of damn money and it SHOULD work flawlessly. >Something< ain't right....

Hope you can get it figured out.

jetsam said:

4 hour burns in a princess? Either you are running flat out, you are burning typing paper, or you have a very serious draft problem.

Given the height of your stack, that last one seems plausible.

Twiddling with the gaskets and door alignment is distracting you from identifying and fixing the root cause. I think if you fix the setup so the stove can operate normally, your other issue will resolve itself, too

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Even on full blast I’d get a solid 6-8 hours on a full load. It’s just not adding up. For so much smoke smell in the room it’s gotta be getting sucked in somewhere. So much that windows need to opened? Come on..

Woody Stover said:

I'm pretty sure they already know they have some problems. It may only be with some of the stoves, since many other owners have no problem, or at least less problems. Maybe it is manufacturing tolerances, some come out OK, some don't. Or design problems. Maybe they need to do more in-depth R&D before they put their products on the market. I'd think they'd have the money to do that, if they so chose. Seems it would be cheaper and less hassle to catch the problems up front in development than to try to deal with 'em later, and way cheaper than a recall, or worse a re-design. But what do I know, I'm no stove-maker/seller. I'm only guessing as to what might be going on, based on my own prejudices. In any case, as long as any bad press they get doesn't hurt their sales too much, I don't guess it's an issue. Their marketing approach is apparently working..

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He has a Princess not a new model, the Princess and the King are tried and true!