Your opions on stove manufacturers

[raybonz]

Englander stoves are probably great stoves, and a good value. Im not supporting stores that support China. good products or not. Im an electrical contractor and ILl go out of business before I do business with them. I want to know what can you purcahse from them that will provide service, parts, or professional advice. Go into Lowes, every sign in the place is also in Spannish. Buy American products and folk China and Mexicco.

I hear what you're saying... Around here many electrical supply houses carry chinese and mexican made wirenuts, tape, fittings even wire! How they get the UL rating on some of these items I have no idea! The way I see it there is no fair trade with the USA.. Hardly any american products go to these countries.. It is destroying this country.. Save a little now pay a lot later!

Ray

 

[raybonz]

Oh, every once in a while this conversation repeats itself over and over again. But there is an ass for every seat. An Englander pellet stove is not a Harman and a Jotul cost much more than an Englander, and some people can weld and wire and build, and others can't turn a screwdriver.

The VAST Majority of wood stoves and pellet stoves are sold by local specialty dealers - who run the gamut from horrible to amazing, just like every other human enterprise. Just like we all complain about the price of oil, we also complain about the lack of service from just about EVERY business. The fact is, it is tough to do biz these days. You get what you pay for in many cases. If your new refrigerator breaks, you expect someone to come out and fix it. Many people expect the same with their pellet stove, wood stove, or leaking insulated chimney installation. A DIYer can ALWAYS save money. It is much cheaper to buy studs and sheet rock than to have a builder construct your addition.

Note that SOME mass market products is different than what you get in specialty stores. Everyone knows that certain "lesser models" of brand names products are sold only in HD and Lowes. That does not mean they are bad products (for instance a HD chain saw), but just that the product is different.

Again, there is an ass for every seat. I doubt each of us has the cheapest house money can buy, or the cheapest car money can buy or the cheapest computer or education money can buy. Very few of us select the cheapest caskets money can buy!

It's the way of the world. Products will be made to fit every niche, and then times are good many people will buy "up" - when they are not, folks will go for the Model T's of the world.

I buy a lot of cheap (harbor freight) tools myself, because $2.99 for a digital multimeter is a heck of a price...and since I am not an electrician, I don't need pro tools (same with a lot of my other tools which get little use, no need to go top notch).

On the other end of things, I once went all out and bought a $1200 computer desk - that was 12 years ago and it will serve me for another 12 or more - 6 feet long, 3 stories high and I can fit ANY amount of equipment on it. Sure, I could have found a $150 computer desk, but no way it would have served me as well.

Craig,
I hear what you're saying and I don't think HD or Lowes is a threat to stove dealers which I really enjoy because you can actually see a stove in operation.. That's something you'll never see at HD or Lowes but for some folks on a budget that are handy an Englander stove from HD or Lowes will serve them well from comments I have read here.. I like the looks of cast iron so my next stove will probably be from a Mom and Pop shop but I will look at Lowes and HD to be sure I am not missing a good value.. One thing I do enjoy at my local stove shop is just chatting to the people there because we have the same passion about alternative heating!

Ray

 

[raybonz]

hey guys, i have no problem with dealers or dealer based service , not everyone is handy with a tool. some folks just dont want to deal with the upkeep. whatever , different strokes, there is a market out there for that. pay the extra thousand dollars or so , and get the full service contract. its your money, and your choice. however, i suggest you shop for dealers just as diligently as you shop for stoves though in that market, as i stated earlier, there can be less than stellar dealers selling good products, you will also find outstanding dealers selling great products. our market is not there for the folks who wish to have that level of service,(in house technical service) but wish to save the money and still buy a quality product. i see these things built every day, i know whats in them , i also know whats in the "premium brand" stoves (as far as motors and blowers and such in pellet stoves, refractories and such in woodstoves)i have personally had my hands on 8 years worth of englander stoves as i ran the quality assurance program for the company from 1993 through 2001. except for a weeks worth of vacation or so , every stove that left that factory was approved by me before it saw a box. needless to say its a personal thing with me. i learned about quality control from professionals in a job where not paying attention to detail got pilots killed. i took that commitment with me when i started working for ESW. as for our service department , i have personally selected and trained most all of them. they will have worked for a minimum of 1 year(most more than that) in our assembly plant before being considered for my staff. they then recieve training in our labs as well as personal training with me. when they are done and know the stove line to my satisfaction , then they get a chair in my office. when a customer calls my office for assistance , they dont get an automaton reading from a script, they get a person who has spent his summers building the very units that are in the stores that winter, i have to give them back every spring as they are important to our manufacturing department when the line cranks up. they serve as section leaders and quality assurance techs making sure the next seasons units will be as solid as we can make them. they have a vested interest in this happening, cause if the stoves arent built right , they will hear about it the next winter when they come back to the service department. this is stressed constantly. even more importantly though , if they dont do the job in the building season , i'll nail their hide to my barn door! bottom line though , i use ESW stoves to heat my home exclusively,routinely , i leave my house for work with my family sleeping soundly and my stove runnning (i will say though in deferrance to the dealer who posted earlier , if i couldnt have an ESW product , i'd be first in line to get a harman, they IMHO are excellent machines) but im prejudiced i work for ESW, i grew up with ESW heat, my parents used an ESW unit to heat their house when i was a child. its over 30 now and still burns as well as it did in 1977 when it was installed, blower still works, bricks are origional , only the door gasket has been changed. how many of you have a stove you can say that about?

bottom line is simple, its the bottom line. we dont build "cheap stoves" we build stoves that quality wise i'll put up against anything out there as far as performance and safety, and beat some, but i dont see losing to very many. throw in the price point, BTU for the buck, we win. there are no foriegn castings, if anything maybe some of the components may have motors and blowers with parts made outside the us, but they are the same blowers and motors used in the "high priced" brands. the welding is all done by hand by craftsmen who care what they put their name on( ive seen arguements over who lays a better bead on a particular weld, i love it, if they didnt care that wouldnt happen) as for emmissions , we currently have the cleanest burning large firebox (over 3.0 cubic ft. ) on the market today regardless of price , the unit made the hearth and home hall of fame (given only to units which come in under 2.0 GPH in testing for certification) and another which made honorable mention (came in at just over 2.0) our pellet units have EPA certification and can be used anywhere in the US regardless of "green" regulations. our "return rate" currently has averaged less than 1 tenth of 1% which is as good as anyone in the industry. ( this means a unit which is sold stays sold)even in the market which includes the "no questions asked return policy" you guys have shopped at lowes/ depot , they will take anything back at the drop of a hat. all that and i have to defend my product line simply because we sell in the mass merchant DIY market. well, ive done that , anyone got any arguements , i'll field them. but as they say , "bring em big , or leave em at home" cause bang for the buck , we cannot be touched.

Mike,
I think it's great that you participate here and offer a product for the masses at a reasonable cost.. I may never own an englander stove but I certainly would consider them in the decision making process.. Like I've said before, stoves are relatively simple and should not require lots of parts if they do then there is a design issue .. I'd be willing to bet that many stove problems would not exist if the stove purchaser simply read and understood the manual that came with the stove..

Ray

 

[webbie]

The "American made" idea is just another simplistic solution to a complex problem. The entire reason you HAVE products here made all over the world is because AMERICAN BUSINESS and AMERICAN GOVERNMENT want you to! So you are supporting American business by buying foreign products! Moreover, our country is 100% reliant on EXPORTING the good stuff we make to all over the world. Many of our major corporations do more business overseas than they do here. So - what? Is it a one way street? Can we reap the benefits (taxes, jobs, etc.) from OUR companies that export, but not allow other companies to make stuff and then import it?

Then there is the whole issue of how many of us want our children to work on assembly lines, in paint shops and in founderies. I would bet that many, if not most, Americans would want their children to go further in life than some of the factory jobs out there. And maybe, just maybe, that is why only 15% of our economy is manufacturing now. I predict that this figure will never (or barely) rise. If that is the case, once again we are complaining about the sun coming up in the morning. Things are the way they are for a REASON.

When our military gives multi-billion dollar contracts to airbus (last week) for large airplanes (tankers)...I think its time to realize these issues are a bit more complicated than we imagine. After all, our own airplane maker(s) (Boeing, etc.) make large parts and assemblies for their planes all over the world (including China).

Anyway, my point is that the era of taking a sledgehammer to foreign cars in the parking lot is long over. GM is no more an "American" company than Toyota is a Japanese one. All of these companies are owned by the stockholders who are from all over the world.

 

[raybonz]

The "American made" idea is just another simplistic solution to a complex problem. The entire reason you HAVE products here made all over the world is because AMERICAN BUSINESS and AMERICAN GOVERNMENT want you to! So you are supporting American business by buying foreign products! Moreover, our country is 100% reliant on EXPORTING the good stuff we make to all over the world. Many of our major corporations do more business overseas than they do here. So - what? Is it a one way street? Can we reap the benefits (taxes, jobs, etc.) from OUR companies that export, but not allow other companies to make stuff and then import it?

Then there is the whole issue of how many of us want our children to work on assembly lines, in paint shops and in founderies. I would bet that many, if not most, Americans would want their children to go further in life than some of the factory jobs out there. And maybe, just maybe, that is why only 15% of our economy is manufacturing now. I predict that this figure will never (or barely) rise. If that is the case, once again we are complaining about the sun coming up in the morning. Things are the way they are for a REASON.

When our military gives multi-billion dollar contracts to airbus (last week) for large airplanes (tankers)...I think its time to realize these issues are a bit more complicated than we imagine. After all, our own airplane maker(s) (Boeing, etc.) make large parts and assemblies for their planes all over the world (including China).

Anyway, my point is that the era of taking a sledgehammer to foreign cars in the parking lot is long over. GM is no more an "American" company than Toyota is a Japanese one. All of these companies are owned by the stockholders who are from all over the world.

About 5 years ago I spent 11 days in Germany for training and found very little being sold there from China or Mexico.. The German machine I was training on was a state of the art printing press and they produced the vast majority of parts for this machine, even the circuit boards! They do however sell lots of things from other european countries particularly those on the Euro system.. I would consider this fair trade and a practice that USA should employ in our business dealings.. To outsource everything makes our country weaker and in the event of a war very vulnerable because we do not produce many things in this country.. Probably the most important thing we can do is produce most of our food and most of our energy in this country to remain strong.. Reliance on others is weak link in the chain and could lead to our downfall.. I feel americans are very capable of producing good quality parts right here in USA.. What good is a college degree when we are a nation of burger flippers? I think it's time to take back our country..

Ray

 

[brooktrout]

The "American made" idea is just another simplistic solution to a complex problem. The entire reason you HAVE products here made all over the world is because AMERICAN BUSINESS and AMERICAN GOVERNMENT want you to! So you are supporting American business by buying foreign products! Moreover, our country is 100% reliant on EXPORTING the good stuff we make to all over the world. Many of our major corporations do more business overseas than they do here. So - what? Is it a one way street? Can we reap the benefits (taxes, jobs, etc.) from OUR companies that export, but not allow other companies to make stuff and then import it?

Then there is the whole issue of how many of us want our children to work on assembly lines, in paint shops and in founderies. I would bet that many, if not most, Americans would want their children to go further in life than some of the factory jobs out there. And maybe, just maybe, that is why only 15% of our economy is manufacturing now. I predict that this figure will never (or barely) rise. If that is the case, once again we are complaining about the sun coming up in the morning. Things are the way they are for a REASON.

When our military gives multi-billion dollar contracts to airbus (last week) for large airplanes (tankers)...I think its time to realize these issues are a bit more complicated than we imagine. After all, our own airplane maker(s) (Boeing, etc.) make large parts and assemblies for their planes all over the world (including China).

Anyway, my point is that the era of taking a sledgehammer to foreign cars in the parking lot is long over. GM is no more an "American" company than Toyota is a Japanese one. All of these companies are owned by the stockholders who are from all over the world.

Craig, well said. If only more people understood this. Being in the car business (autobody), I hear comments everyday about this is junk, that's junk, buy american, never buy american, etc. I'm not saying I don't have my biased opinion about which car I'd like to work on all day every day if I could (Toyota, hands down), but the buy american mentality is way overblown and misused. This is a global economy, like it or not. Get with it or be left behind. It comes down to personal decisions made on a local level that really affects or daily lives.

 

[stoveguy13]

Mike isnt the pellet stove epa exempt not epa certified i am unaware of any epa cert for a pellet stove?

 

[BrotherBart]

Mike isnt the pellet stove epa exempt not epa certified i am unaware of any epa cert for a pellet stove?

Pellet stoves are EPA exempt and not required to be tested for certification but manufacturers can voluntarily have them tested and certified. England Stove Works as well as some other manufacturers have submitted stoves for certification testing and are listed on the EPA certified stove list.

 

[swestall]

We live in North America and we should all do what we can to support rebuilding its place in the world. The present situation is that our "stock" has deteriorated within the world; and its economy. Because, we have been led down the garden path by individuals (politicians, businessmen, etc) who have not paid attention to the impact their decisions have on us (or them personally). They have gone for short term results and lined their pockets with the spoils of them never paying attention to the long term consequences. Meanwhile, the Chinese and other parts of the world are looking at long term strategies to gain the position we use to hold.
Within two generations we have slipped significantly. If we do not remedy our ways within another two to four generations what was the greatest place on earth will be a memory.
I don't have the solution, but can see the problem. I guess my great grandchildren are in deep trouble unless something changes. That is the only part of the current political debate that I really agree with. The leadership in this country needs to focus on this country and getting it back to good standing in the world by building its strenght. Currency, production, education, etc. Call it self centered, but my feeling is that we should focus on OUR COUNTRY, making it better, making it strong, let THEM focus on theirs. We give so much to the world, which takes and takes.
If you really want to get upset, take a look at the commercials on TV; they represent what is being bought and sold here. All we see is a bunch people who are only interested in pop material things, dressed like who knows what and living for the moment.
Folks, we are in deep, very deep indeed.
Our dollars say, God Bless America; I only hope God Helps America for we seem not to be too focused on helping ourselves.

 

[raybonz]

We live in North America and we should all do what we can to support rebuilding its place in the world. The present situation is that our "stock" has deteriorated within the world; and its economy. Because, we have been led down the garden path by individuals (politicians, businessmen, etc) who have not paid attention to the impact their decisions have on us (or them personally). They have gone for short term results and lined their pockets with the spoils of them never paying attention to the long term consequences. Meanwhile, the Chinese and other parts of the world are looking at long term strategies to gain the position we use to hold.
Within two generations we have slipped significantly. If we do not remedy our ways within another two to four generations what was the greatest place on earth will be a memory.
I don't have the solution, but can see the problem. I guess my great grandchildren are in deep trouble unless something changes. That is the only part of the current political debate that I really agree with. The leadership in this country needs to focus on this country and getting it back to good standing in the world by building its strenght. Currency, production, education, etc. Call it self centered, but my feeling is that we should focus on OUR COUNTRY, making it better, making it strong, let THEM focus on theirs. We give so much to the world, which takes and takes.
If you really want to get upset, take a look at the commercials on TV; they represent what is being bought and sold here. All we see is a bunch people who are only interested in pop material things, dressed like who knows what and living for the moment.
Folks, we are in deep, very deep indeed.
Our dollars say, God Bless America; I only hope God Helps America for we seem not to be too focused on helping ourselves.

Well said I fully agree....

Ray

 

[bbc557ci]

I would go with a local dealer and a stove that has good support. Jotul, Loppi, Pacific enegry, VC, Hearthstone ect. I wouldnt buy from the box stores regardless. try to find somebody at Lowes that knows the difference between there ass and hole in the ground. You get what you pay for

Hanko, apparently in your case, the hole in the ground would be the one without the bug up it

Now why would you say something like that> all I stated was my personal opinion about box stores, and that the best you can come up with. My opinion was in no way personal to anyone on this site. I have no bug in my ass except guys who say crap hidden behind a keyboard. If you work at one of those stores, sorry, but thats the way I feel and I thaught this site was all opinios welcome

Hiding behind a key board .........Hanko, I would have said the same thing to you if we were sitting on bar stools having a beer, or a JD It was just meant to be a little jab. Sorry if I offended you.

I was in the construction trades for over 30 years and for the most I part agree with you about box stores. Overall, they suck. Only time me or my men would buy from a box store was if we were in a pinch. Regardless, it was the "you get what you pay for" line that kind of got to me (again, I mostly agree with you). It seemed to be directed towards Englander stoves. Now, Personally I know nothing about them but there are plenty of qualified people on this site who say the Englander stoves are a good product. And there is an Englander rep who frequents the site, who seems to be pretty supportive and helpful when an Englander owner needs help. Two months ago I spent allot more on a Pacific Energies T6, and do not know of a PE rep who visits this site.

 

[begreen]

How's the T6 working out for you bbc557ci?

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Englander stoves are probably great stoves, and a good value. Im not supporting stores that support China. good products or not. Im an electrical contractor and ILl go out of business before I do business with them. I want to know what can you purcahse from them that will provide service, parts, or professional advice. Go into Lowes, every sign in the place is also in Spannish. Buy American products and folk China and Mexicco.

I hear what you're saying... Around here many electrical supply houses carry chinese and mexican made wirenuts, tape, fittings even wire! How they get the UL rating on some of these items I have no idea! The way I see it there is no fair trade with the USA.. Hardly any american products go to these countries.. It is destroying this country.. Save a little now pay a lot later!

Ray

I couldn't agree with you guys more. My Sister and her Husband work for Walmart at the World Headquarters in Bentonville, AR.
Needless to say we don't see eye to eye. Being from Detroit I can tell you first hand that the U.S. is in big trouble. Many of my friends and family have lost their jobs to Foreign car companies. I buy American products when ever I can!

If you want an Englander 30 why not purchase from overstockstoves.com? $799 shipped!

I did so on the advise of Brother Bart and others here on this great website. (thanks Craig)

Its priced way below any of the box stores and really all you need is a small trailer or pick-up truck to get the Stove from the shipping terminal. Take off the door and remove the firebricks and with the aid of a hand cart you can pretty much move the thing yourself.

The Englander 30 is quite honestly one of the best things I have ever bought (no joke)

In another 3 weeks the stove and all parts will have paid for itself in just about 3 months, as my winter gas bills were upwards of $400 per month from last year down to under $40 per month this year.

 

[Ken45]

we have a service contract with a tractor supply locally to repair englander & breckwell pellet stoves . I am also a hearth retailer. The englander stoves don't have much of a warranty & the people at tractor supply have no idea how to use or answer customer complaints or problems. Trust me. Buy a Harman pellet stove. Only pellet on market 3 year parts & labor warranty. replacement parts are 1/2 the cost of englander & breckwell.

Sorry, but you made me laugh. We made the mistake of buying a Harman and the dealer is absolutely non responsive (besides installing the stove incorrectly). Calls to Harman have elicited a "I'll speak to the dealer" and that's the last I hear.

Harman MIGHT make a good product and MIGHT have a long warranty but it's virtually worthless when you have to deal thorugh an inept and lazy dealer.

 

[begreen]

Quadrafire pellet stoves have a 2 yr electronics, 3 year burn pot and lifetime warranty on the rest of the stove.

 

[bbc557ci]

How's the T6 working out for you bbc557ci?

Hi BeGreen -

Overall it's working real well !! Nice to be able to have the house 72-75 degrees, and not keep running out to the LP tank to see how much gas I gotta pay for at the next fill up LOL

House is out in the wide open and sometimes subject to +35 mph winds. The stove can be a little finicky when the wind is a'blow'n like that. And it has done a couple of minor puff backs. Think I either need to add a few feet to the chimney, or look into a different cap. There's a couple of good sweeps around where we live. Come April or May I think I'll call one out and have him take a look, get a pro's opinion.

 

[nshorebb]

I was in the construction trades for over 30 years and for the most I part agree with you about box stores. Overall, they suck. Only time me or my men would buy from a box store was if we were in a pinch. Regardless, it was the "you get what you pay for" line that kind of got to me (again, I mostly agree with you). It seemed to be directed towardsEnglander stoves. Now, Personally I know nothing about them but there are plenty of qualified people on this site who say the Englander stoves are a good product. And there is an Englander rep who frequents the site, who seems to be pretty supportive and helpful when an Englander owner needs help. Two months ago I spent allot more on a Pacific Energies T6, and do not know of a PE rep who visits this site.[/quote]

Check the EPA emsssions rating for the big Englander and the T6 The Englander is half ( 1.63 verse 3.56) the T6 and costs 1/3 of the Pacific Energy T6

Arrow Stove ( being replaced)
Shtil Pro 026
Husky 65
Yamaha 600 Grizzly

 

[glenng]

I`ve been heating my house for 3 years with a Napolean 1400. Great stove easy to operate and it burns clean which is important since I live in a neighborhood. I also have an Englander 15nc that I use to heat my woodshop. They are both great stoves. If I were to do it over I`d buy an Englander 30 for my house because of price. Its well made, works perfect and its Made in USA and its a great value. I like utilitarian woodstoves. Englander and Napolean are at the top of my list.

 

[begreen]

Glenn, you've just entered BroBart's hall of fame. Honors of smoked ribs and natural lite are soon to be bestowed upon you.

 

[glenng]

Glenn, you've just entered BroBart's hall of fame. Honors of smoked ribs and natural lite are soon to be bestowed upon you.

You had me at "smoked ribs"

 

[gyrfalcon]

hey guys, i have no problem with dealers or dealer based service.

Hey, Mike, I'm sincerely impressed by your passion on this subject.

But wouldja throw in a couplea paratraph breaks once in a while? It's really hard to read all that without breaks every few sentences!

 

[stoveguy2esw]

hey guys, i have no problem with dealers or dealer based service.

Hey, Mike, I'm sincerely impressed by your passion on this subject.

But wouldja throw in a couplea paratraph breaks once in a while? It's really hard to read all that without breaks every few sentences!

sorry about that , when i get cranked up i tend to forget the "enter" key. im trying to get better at that.

 

[BrotherBart]

hey guys, i have no problem with dealers or dealer based service.

Hey, Mike, I'm sincerely impressed by your passion on this subject.

But wouldja throw in a couplea paratraph breaks once in a while? It's really hard to read all that without breaks every few sentences!

sorry about that , when i get cranked up i tend to forget the "enter" key. im trying to get better at that.

Just lay good beads. Screw good typing. :cheese:

 

[stoveguy2esw]

hey guys, i have no problem with dealers or dealer based service.

Hey, Mike, I'm sincerely impressed by your passion on this subject.

But wouldja throw in a couplea paratraph breaks once in a while? It's really hard to read all that without breaks every few sentences!

sorry about that , when i get cranked up i tend to forget the "enter" key. im trying to get better at that.

Just lay good beads. Screw good typing. :cheese:

i can do that, but the guys on the welding line are pretty solid they dont need me in the way. of course Ron (the owner)still shows em a trick or two on occasion, that guy is just insanely good with a welder. its always entertaining when he drops the hood and gives a lesson.

 

[seaken]

[Mike, I was about to say the same thing about the paragraphs. It was good read but I almost didn't make it!]

Here's the reality for me and our business - we cannot service everyone. Fact is, we simply cannot help many folks. If I can help someone who can't afford my prices I always recommend that they go down to the local Lowes and buy an Englander, some DuraVent Plus, and install it themselves, making sure to have the local building inspector take a look. If they are not handy I recommend they call a sweep service for help. We cannot stay in business unless we charge for our services. We help folks who are unable or unwilling to do the work themselves and can afford to pay for our services.

Many folks on forums like this assume we are overpriced and impute wrong motives based on what we charge. This is unfair, and is based on ignorance of what it really takes to stay in business. We charge what we need to charge, and no more. We are not getting rich and in many cases we take home less than our employees. We provide a needed service to the community and we do not pretend to be better than Englander or anyone else. It pains me that some many people think us crooks simply because we charge as much as $6000 for a wood stove package, or whatever.

I many times have to take a break from this place because I get so fed up with this nonsense. I dare to say that many would sing a different tune if they were in my place. But it's so much more fun to group all dealers together as the bad guys who charge too much and give poor service. It is so far from the truth. I have been in this industry a long time and I know there are more good dealers out there then the posts on this forum might indicate. It's just that the complainers and those unlucky enough to find a bad dealer are so much more vocal than the thousands of satisfied customers who use our services in every community in the country.

I know that many here will insist that the DIY crowd is under-served by the hearth industry. But maybe they would find more significant service if they would pay for it. Service costs a lot of money. Good service costs even more. And after all, doesn't Do-it-yourself imply that you are supposed to do it YOURSELF? Why so many complaints that service is poor when so many only want the lowest price? It's no wonder you can't get service from your dealer when you always complaining about their charges! If you want DIY prices do it yourself.

Now, this topic was supposed to be about opinions on stove manufacturers. Yet, as has many times been suggested on this forum over the years, you are not simply buying a stove. If you are not a DIYer you are also buying a local service. If you are not a DIYer, please consider paying your local dealer the price that he/she asks for instead of thinking you can dicker and negotiate, as if their price is obviously inflated and not really the worth what he/she is asking. If you approach your dealer that way just maybe you'll end up with a fine stove and good dealer to support you, whatever the brand or manufacturer, and whether the stove is made in Canada, Denmark, or the USA, or even the castigated China.

I wish everyone the best. There are a lot of good stoves out there, and good manufacturers. And there are lots of good dealers. Due diligence and a positive approach should yield good results in your quest for a stove that will serve you for many years. If you are inclined to buy from a local dealer you might want to look at the following brands:

Vermont Castings
Dutchwest
Harman
Morso
Lopi
Avalon
Enviro
Osburn