Yet another hair raising moment with my new stove. Plastic smell and tinging inside the pipe.

[GrumpyDad]

I did a simple search of your stove using Google.. I didnt find any issues on locating a cat for your stove.. took me all of a minute

View attachment 301344

That is just the catalyst, does not include the bracket nor the probe. It's also not in stock. It will be 8-12 weeks and is $250 additional dollars.
The condor one, they must have just added dauntless flexburn to their list. I will need to measure to see if that works. For that price I would get that, then the probe/meter everyone seems to like in here. Not that I think one should need to do that in order to operate a stove within a certain amount of reasonable range. I would think those additional items would be if you want to get more out of your stove, not just to simply operate it in a safe and reasonable manner.

 

[stoveliker]

One thing I sense, from the comments of the OP, is that maybe adjustments are being made too quickly.

Stoves are slow. Both in their room-heating behavior (especially cast iron stoves). But also in how they change their burning characteristics after changing the settings (air).

I wonder if part of the sense of uncontrollability is due to too many changes, too large changes, too close after one another.

Try to go small changes, wait 15 minutes. Of course in an emergency, you act fast. But if you see things climbing up, and think it would not limit to reasonable temps, dial down a little bit already. It'll still climb up, but less so. If after 15-20 minutes you feel it'd still go too high, dial down a little bit again. Small steps.

(This is not about the "too low ->creosote" issue, just stove operation in general.)

Or maybe I'm wrong in "reading between the lines".

 

[Woodsplitter67]

It may be the operator, but no one around me seems to have done an ounce of research when they bought their stove

Im not sure what you mean by I want to operate the stove like a cat stove. The stove advertises being able to run on the low end. It's one of the reasons I bought it, and one of the selling points the dealer pointed out. 12,250 - 49,430 (without catalyst) 14,520 - 41,940 (catalytic). If I run it above 400 degrees,

So it doesn't matter what others did or doing.. your stove .. the way you run it is different.. my neighbors have the PE summit.. there stove and heat requirements are different so we run it differently from each other.. the information your pisting regarding cat/non cat is incorrect.. your not understanding it correctly.. the other day I asked you to reread your manual because your posting that the cat lighs off at 300 degrees when were postig that a good cat temp is like 1k ..

Your not sure what I mean by you want to operate the stove like a cat stove.. You want a stove that will not cook you out of the room .. You want a stove that will operate at lower temperature and burn overnight, and clean.. so you want a cat stove.. but refuse to set it up like one and then complain that its not performing.. PUT THE CAT IN IT.. and you will be able to burn at lower temperature and have longer/ more constant burns.. You state this is why you purchased the stove.. but your not settling it up that way.. I dont think you understand.. your trying to burn it like a cat stove long and low.. but without the cat in it... its not a cat stove.. because theres no catalyst in it..and with no catalyst in it.. IT WILL NOT BURN CORRECTLY.. I responded.. a while back.. I will repeat myself.. If your closing the bypass.. and turning the air back.. without the cat in it.. THE STOVE WILL STALL .. This is why you woke up one morning after an overnight burn with still a half box of wood still in it...

 

[Woodsplitter67]

That is just the catalyst, does not include the bracket nor the probe. It's also not in stock. It will be 8-12 weeks and is $250 additional dollars.
The condor one, they must have just added dauntless flexburn to their list. I will need to measure to see if that works. For that price I would get that, then the probe/meter everyone seems to like in here. Not that I think one should need to do that in order to operate a stove within a certain amount of reasonable range. I would think those additional items would be if you want to get more out of your stove, not just to simply operate it in a safe and reasonable manner.

Really the point is.. do the serch.. I posted the manufacturer of the cat for VC. in the vc thread... call them.. another member did and got the part number and ordered it.. Iv already posted this information for you and others.. do the research.. really were helping.. you can do this.. really

 

[Woodsplitter67]

For the probe Id go with the AT100 from aubor and the k type thermo coupler.. All discussed in the VC thread and the information readily available.. Others have posted on how to wire it up.. 2 people did this yesterday.... you can either make a bracket.. or order one from vc..

 

[Woodsplitter67]

One thing I sense, from the comments of the OP, is that maybe adjustments are being made too quickly.

Stoves are slow. Both in their room-heating behavior (especially cast iron stoves). But also in how they change their burning characteristics after changing the settings (air).

I wonder if part of the sense of uncontrollability is due to too many changes, too large changes, too close after one another.

Try to go small changes, wait 15 minutes. Of course in an emergency, you act fast. But if you see things climbing up, and think it would not limit to reasonable temps, dial down a little bit already. It'll still climb up, but less so. If after 15-20 minutes you feel it'd still go too high, dial down a little bit again. Small steps.

(This is not about the "too low ->creosote" issue, just stove operation in general.)

Or maybe I'm wrong in "reading between the lines".

This is about to low.. hes turning the stove back as not to make the room to hot.. his stove stalls sometimes..it stall because of the cat not being in it and the air back to much.. look at post 103.. last 4 sentences..

His stove stalls and then he turns the air back up on a partially burnt load and it lighs off quickly..

 

[Kevin Weis]

I think the stoves manual needs to be read and re-read here for this stove. In the VC manual for my Intrepid flexburn and does not state or elude to that the burning length times will be significantly longer with the cat. Just that they will be somewhat longer and less particulant leaving the stove (smoke). It does state that the temp through the combustion chamber must be above 450 for the cat to light. That's what the supplied temp probe is so supposed to tell you when to ingage the cat. What's unclear here is the 400 that's been put out here the griddle temp or combustion chamber temp? The VC stoves will not run as designed with with the stove loaded up running cooler smudge firesto extend the burn. And if you get the cat to lite then throttle it back to bring the temp down but still feeding the cat smoke/gases the cat will not keep running just off the smoke being feed to it. The temp going to the cat must be maintained above 450 is the reality of it. At least that's what I've experienced in the VC flexburn stoves I've had. Running it cold take the cat out but you will have additional creosote inside the stove. What the OP is trying to do is get an 8-10 hour burn with a temp below but maintaining a sub 400 temp the entire 8-10 hour run of the stove overnight. That is not possible with that size and brand of stove. Been there done that. There's other stoves that likely can do that but not that size a VC. Just my two cents.

 

[GrumpyDad]

One thing I sense, from the comments of the OP, is that maybe adjustments are being made too quickly.

Stoves are slow. Both in their room-heating behavior (especially cast iron stoves). But also in how they change their burning characteristics after changing the settings (air).

I wonder if part of the sense of uncontrollability is due to too many changes, too large changes, too close after one another.

Try to go small changes, wait 15 minutes. Of course in an emergency, you act fast. But if you see things climbing up, and think it would not limit to reasonable temps, dial down a little bit already. It'll still climb up, but less so. If after 15-20 minutes you feel it'd still go too high, dial down a little bit again. Small steps.

(This is not about the "too low ->creosote" issue, just stove operation in general.)

Or maybe I'm wrong in "reading between the lines".

I try to make small adjustments and I always wait.

 

[stoveliker]

This is about to low.. hes turning the stove back as not to make the room to hot.. his stove stalls sometimes..it stall because of the cat not being in it and the air back to much.. look at post 103.. last 4 sentences..

His stove stalls and then he turns the air back up on a partially burnt load and it lighs off quickly..

I know it is about too low. But failure often is a result of multiple contributing factors.

The main thing was either wet wood - this has been ruled out - or choking it down too much. But other behavior can either help or exacerbate the issues.

I'm trying to be helpful in tone and substance.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I think the stoves manual needs to be read and re-read here for this stove. In the VC manual for my Intrepid flexburn and does not state or elude to that the burning length times will be significantly longer with the cat. Just that they will be somewhat longer and less particulant leaving the stove (smoke). It does state that the temp through the combustion chamber must be above 450 for the cat to light. That's what the supplied temp probe is so supposed to tell you when to ingage the cat. What's unclear here is the 400 that's been put out here the griddle temp or combustion chamber temp? The VC stoves will not run as designed with with the stove loaded up running cooler smudge firesto extend the burn. And if you get the cat to lite then throttle it back to bring the temp down but still feeding the cat smoke/gases the cat will not keep running just off the smoke being feed to it. The temp going to the cat must be maintained above 450 is the reality of it. At least that's what I've experienced in the VC flexburn stoves I've had. Running it cold take the cat out but you will have additional creosote inside the stove. What the OP is trying to do is get an 8-10 hour burn with a temp below but maintaining a sub 400 temp the entire 8-10 hour run of the stove overnight. That is not possible with that size and brand of stove. Been there done that. There's other stoves that likely can do that but not that size a VC. Just my two cents.

read the manual dozens of times.
Im not trying to go below 400 at all. My goal is to stay above. At some point though, that is impossible. For every stove. There is nothing anyone can do about this without intervention (adding fuel). Ive spent many sleepless nights trying to adjust the settings to stay above 400, even 450ish would be a target. 3rd from lowest. Burns too slow at first, then it heats up nicely, then burns down and eventually drops below 400 before wake up hours. 4th from lowest, about the same but at that point that the wood is 3/4 burned the stove will get up there before eventually dying out and providing some coals in the morning. 5th, gets too hot midway through and burns through the wood too fast. No coals left in the morning.

 

[GrumpyDad]

For the probe Id go with the AT100 from aubor and the k type thermo coupler.. All discussed in the VC thread and the information readily available.. Others have posted on how to wire it up.. 2 people did this yesterday.... you can either make a bracket.. or order one from vc..

Calling dealer today and am getting the cat plus probes...doing this hardcore. In the end, it is what it is. Goal would be that the wife could operate this (as advertised as a simple to use stove, one of the best in the industry). Wife wont read a digital display, she will know she is cold and turn the stove up and add wood, and then when it gets too warm or an alarm sounds she will turn the air down.

 

[stoveliker]

read the manual dozens of times.
Im not trying to go below 400 at all. My goal is to stay above. At some point though, that is impossible. For every stove. There is nothing anyone can do about this without intervention (adding fuel). Ive spent many sleepless nights trying to adjust the settings to stay above 400, even 450ish would be a target. 3rd from lowest. Burns too slow at first, then it heats up nicely, then burns down and eventually drops below 400 before wake up hours. 4th from lowest, about the same but at that point that the wood is 3/4 burned the stove will get up there before eventually dying out and providing some coals in the morning. 5th, gets too hot midway through and burns through the wood too fast. No coals left in the morning.

If, on e.g. a 6 hr burn, you have an hour dialing in (running it high at first, then dialing down), then 4 hrs of constant-ish temperature, and then it drops, that's fine.

Stoves burning out/going cold do not produce creosote.

Also, the 400 is not hot enough if you don't have the cat, I think.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Calling dealer today and am getting the cat plus probes...doing this hardcore. In the end, it is what it is. Goal would be that the wife could operate this (as advertised as a simple to use stove, one of the best in the industry). Wife wont read a digital display, she will know she is cold and turn the stove up and add wood, and then when it gets too warm or an alarm sounds she will turn the air down.

Read this whole thing. I am very much a newb. I am about a dozen fires in to this stove. I have an Encore 2040 with the CAT. I will say once I was able to see my CAT temps this stove basically ran itself. I had the CAT from the beginning but had no idea what temp it was operating at. So I would end up heating myself out of the room making sure the stove was hot enough to engage the secondary. Next thing you know my living room is a sauna.

I think having the CAT plus a thermometer on it will solve a lot of your issues. My goal for long burns is get the CAT up to temp, load it, chill. If my CAT is 900-1200 and I load the stove I can pretty much immediately turn my air down to half. Assuming I have a nice bed of coals in the bottom. I wait about 15 min make sure the CAT is stable and shut the air all the way down before bed. This is around 7:30. I wake up to got to the gym at 4:30 and I can toss a couple small splits on and they light right back up. I have only reburned the entire next day once as it has still been warm here but same process. I usually just like to get the CAT back up in the morning toss a couple splits and close it off and let it burn out to take the morning edge off.

My glass is a little bit foggy but definitely not covered in creosote like the picture. If creosote is a concern, from my understanding, if you have the CAT and it is engaged you will have almost 0 creosote in your chimney pipe. Then you can sleep peacefully.

I think you can do this and achieve the results you want with this stove assuming you are setting yourself up to be successful

 

[GrumpyDad]

Read this whole thing. I am very much a newb. I am about a dozen fires in to this stove. I have an Encore 2040 with the CAT. I will say once I was able to see my CAT temps this stove basically ran itself. I had the CAT from the beginning but had no idea what temp it was operating at. So I would end up heating myself out of the room making sure the stove was hot enough to engage the secondary. Next thing you know my living room is a sauna.

I think having the CAT plus a thermometer on it will solve a lot of your issues. My goal for long burns is get the CAT up to temp, load it, chill. If my CAT is 900-1200 and I load the stove I can pretty much immediately turn my air down to half. Assuming I have a nice bed of coals in the bottom. I wait about 15 min make sure the CAT is stable and shut the air all the way down before bed. This is around 7:30. I wake up to got to the gym at 4:30 and I can toss a couple small splits on and they light right back up. I have only reburned the entire next day once as it has still been warm here but same process. I usually just like to get the CAT back up in the morning toss a couple splits and close it off and let it burn out to take the morning edge off.

My glass is a little bit foggy but definitely not covered in creosote like the picture. If creosote is a concern, from my understanding, if you have the CAT and it is engaged you will have almost 0 creosote in your chimney pipe. Then you can sleep peacefully.

I think you can do this and achieve the results you want with this stove assuming you are setting yourself up to be successful

I honestly do not need to run this overnight. It would be nice to reduce dependency on oil, but it is not a must. I struggle to keep this thing above 450 unless I have the air up there, but if I let that go too long the stove gets really hot very quickly and many times it is hard to determine when that overheat will occur depending on how I have the wood spaced, what wood im using, how much etc. There is no set it and forget it, what so ever at current state (not sure if the cat helps there). So lets say it's getting too hot for my space and for my liking, and im creeping over 600, ok so I turn it down a few notches because Im well above where I want to be. 20 minutes later, it's sailing fine at around 525. Go away for an hour, now it's at 400 or lower...no flames, darker glass. DOH. Turn it back up a bit. Ok it's bumping up there, still no flames but at 450. Ok Im going to turn it up just ONE more notch....return 30 minutes later and the entire thing is ablaze, the STT is 625 and there's that smell again.

^that's the dance Im referring to.

Im going to get the cat. And if I still have this experience, Im going to destroy this stove in a glorious manner and youtube it.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

I honestly do not need to run this overnight. It would be nice to reduce dependency on oil, but it is not a must. I struggle to keep this thing above 450 unless I have the air up there, but if I let that go too long the stove gets really hot very quickly and many times it is hard to determine when that overheat will occur depending on how I have the wood spaced, what wood im using, how much etc. There is no set it and forget it, what so ever at current state (not sure if the cat helps there). So lets say it's getting too hot for my space and for my liking, and im creeping over 600, ok so I turn it down a few notches because Im well above where I want to be. 20 minutes later, it's sailing fine at around 525. Go away for an hour, now it's at 400 or lower...no flames, darker glass. DOH. Turn it back up a bit. Ok it's bumping up there, still no flames but at 450. Ok Im going to turn it up just ONE more notch....return 30 minutes later and the entire thing is ablaze, the STT is 625 and there's that smell again.

^that's the dance Im referring to.

Im going to get the cat. And if I still have this experience, Im going to destroy this stove in a glorious manner and youtube it.

I mean I have oil also and not spending 800+ a month on oil is always a plus.

I think it's normal for the griddle temp to fluctuate on the stove. As a new piece of wood lights and they off gas you will see temp increases on the griddle and the CAT. I really do think you'll have a different experience with the CAT.

When I have the initial set up I get the griddle up to maybe 600-650. Have my coals and load it my CAT stays in the go zone usually settles around 1100. And the griddle top somewhere 400-450. Might spike occasionally if something lights off but for the most part it's consistent. My air is halfway or mostly closed. I have found a nice hot startup is key to get this stove burning long and efficient.

I also came in to this thinking a wood stove was just a big cast iron box that I would light, load, and leave. Never realized how much technology is in these things and how much finesse it took to work properly. There is definitely a method to this that I'm still learning. It's become a game now to see how efficient I can get at burning

 

[GrumpyDad]

For the probe Id go with the AT100 from aubor and the k type thermo coupler.. All discussed in the VC thread and the information readily available.. Others have posted on how to wire it up.. 2 people did this yesterday.... you can either make a bracket.. or order one from vc..

I see some people have digital thermometers that have multiple temps displayed. I would be interested in something like the AT100 that has an alarm that you could set a high and low alarm (preferably with different sounds for each), and one that you could add another thermocouple to and monitor say, STT or flue temps at the same time, without having to buy two units.

What would be even cooler, and something I would really like to find would be one that is network connected. Meaning, I could check via an app whats going on with my stove when Im out (if I ever get the guts to leave this thing alone)

 

[NewGuy132]

Just read the whole thread. All I have to say is that I had a chimney fire with my Intrepid last year. It was my first year and I had garbage wood(I don't believe this is the issue here). I didn't even know I had a chimney fire until I had a mid season sweep. Then I changed my burning habits, and wood. At the end of the season the sweep said that everything was great. This year I got a Auber temp probe (I was one that installed yesterday) and I am going to get a soot eater and clean my chimney a couple times this season.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

I see some people have digital thermometers that have multiple temps displayed. I would be interested in something like the AT100 that has an alarm that you could set a high and low alarm (preferably with different sounds for each), and one that you could add another thermocouple to and monitor say, STT or flue temps at the same time, without having to buy two units.

What would be even cooler, and something I would really like to find would be one that is network connected. Meaning, I could check via an app whats going on with my stove when Im out (if I ever get the guts to leave this thing alone)

Someone has this. I saw the picture of the laptop screen with all the temp monitoring. This is well out of my technical abilities to set up though

 

[GrumpyDad]

Just read the whole thread. All I have to say is that I had a chimney fire with my Intrepid last year. It was my first year and I had garbage wood(I don't believe this is the issue here). I didn't even know I had a chimney fire until I had a mid season sweep. Then I changed my burning habits, and wood. At the end of the season the sweep said that everything was great. This year I got a Auber temp probe (I was one that installed yesterday) and I am going to get a soot eater and clean my chimney a couple times this season.

woh, how much did you burn between cleans before your fire?
I read alot about this topic, both here but in many areas. Talked to a few folks as well locally. Some say it was just burning off some creosote because I let the flames 'get up in there', others say small chimney fire, some say not uncommon to have that, one person I read said that where the connections are for elbows is where you get build up and that will fire off at times.

I did an external inspection and saw no flames/sparks. Once I closed down the damper/air control, the pinging sound continued so that is why Im still worried. When I did a temp read with laser, I was at almost 300 up higher from the lower part of the pipe, about midway up near the elbow. Normally it's cooler there than down below. This reading was shortly after the event so maybe the lower pipe had time to cool down. This is on double wall pipe, so 300 degrees seems high.

Having this issue with half a face cord run through it, doesnt sit well with me.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Someone has this. I saw the picture of the laptop screen with all the temp monitoring. This is well out of my technical abilities to set up though

yup, I know what you are referring to. It has to do with using a rasberry pi device , some code found on the net and retrofitted etc. Im looking for something that is out of the box ready. I thought about finding something at a BBQ site and then using the right probe for the job. I'll dig a bit. Still waiting for dealer to call me back with quote for cat kit or just cat alone, or just bracket. If I have to drive up there, I might as well get my favorite subs and just deal with it to save on shipping or lead times.

 

[NewGuy132]

woh, how much did you burn between cleans before your fire?
I read alot about this topic, both here but in many areas. Talked to a few folks as well locally. Some say it was just burning off some creosote because I let the flames 'get up in there', others say small chimney fire, some say not uncommon to have that, one person I read said that where the connections are for elbows is where you get build up and that will fire off at times.

I did an external inspection and saw no flames/sparks. Once I closed down the damper/air control, the pinging sound continued so that is why Im still worried. When I did a temp read with laser, I was at almost 300 up higher from the lower part of the pipe, about midway up near the elbow. Normally it's cooler there than down below. This reading was shortly after the event so maybe the lower pipe had time to cool down. This is on double wall pipe, so 300 degrees seems high.

Having this issue with half a face cord run through it, doesnt sit well with me.

I probably ran a little over a cord all of last year and that cleaning was in early January if I remember correctly. So I had probably burned around 1/2 a cord or so. While the stove is in my house I only burn after work and on weekends. My main heat source is oil, this is just to supplement. I 75% attribute the chimney fire to the bad wood and 25% to bad burning habits. If I remember correctly the wood I bought was in the 30's for MC. After stopping using it last year this fall it is still in the mid 20's. It will be ready for next year. Also I had never run a stove before so I would keep the STT around 400-450 and the cat temp would be just below Operate Catalyst area. So I was smoldering and didn't have the cat temp high enough to burn up the smoke. When I had my first cleanout my cat was also completely plugged up.

This is why I am going with the digital thermometer. I will have a better idea of how it is running without having to stick my head behind the stove. Also this year I want to run the stove better because I just paid $5.89 a gallon for oil and I'd like to save as much oil as I can.

As far as letting the flames "get up in there" I think that with these stoves that is how they are supposed to work. You can't fill the firebox with wood and light it and not have the flames get up in there. Last year this is one of the things that kind of weirded me out about the stove. This year I am just running it hot and making sure that the cat is kicked off and running every time.

 

[stoveliker]

I have found a nice hot startup is key to get this stove burning long and efficient.

I think this may be an important remark hidden in anotherwise good post.

At least it is for my (cat) stove. It was also important for my '82 DutchWest stove.
When you load, it's good to get everything good and hot. Hotter than you want during your "stable run time".
My experience with the DutchWest is that only after doing that is it possible to get some stable run time. (The BK is stable by design, but also requires a high initial 30 minutes, though some folks shorten that a bit.)

 

[Eman85]

Did you check Midwest Hearth for a cat? Applied Ceramics is a manufacturer of the OE cats for VC and Midwest Hearth is their distributor. I just bought a cat for my Encore from MW hearth, excellent price and service.

 

[ole]

if I still have this experience, Im going to destroy this stove in a glorious manner and youtube it.

Then go buy a Drolet. I’ve cleaned my glass 4 times in 3 years. Solid home heaters.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Did you check Midwest Hearth for a cat? Applied Ceramics is a manufacturer of the OE cats for VC and Midwest Hearth is their distributor. I just bought a cat for my Encore from MW hearth, excellent price and service.

Im waiting to hear back from dealer for prices to have a comparison. But thanks for the info.