Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid Stove

[Huntindog1]

Has anyone used a manual pipe damper as an extra level of control. As I am sure there are some flues that have more draw than others.

Could the manual pipe damper be used to drop the temps in the stove down below the level that secondaries fire and low enough level to just have cat operation. Then open the damper back up.

 

[rideau]

This technique may eventually work, but in my situation a lot of black smoke would go up the stack before the cat would light. When the cat was brand new it would definitely work.

Interesting. No black smoke for me. You get black smoke even when loaded on hot coals? Have you talked with Woodstock? Maybe your cat isn't functioning properly. I know some people have had to replace their cats, and understand Woodstock has worked with the cat company to improve or modify the cat...

 

[rideau]

Has anyone used a manual pipe damper as an extra level of control. As I am sure there are some flues that have more draw than others.

Could the manual pipe damper be used to drop the temps in the stove down below the level that secondaries fire and low enough level to just have cat operation. Then open the damper back up.

I have an incredible draft. The first two weeks i had this stove I considered getting a damper...even spoke with Woodstock about it...but the above technique took care of any issues. I don't need a damper. Close the air, secondaries soon go out and cat takes over...if I want the secondaries out.

I was initially worried because one cannot completely cut off the air to the PH by closing the air inlet, and I was worried about what would happen if I got a really hot stovetop and wnted to cool things down. My Fireview got hotter than I liked a few times in the past. But that has never developed as an issue with this stove. I've never had near 600 on the stove top, even with a really active fire. I believe this is because with the slanted fireback so much heat comes out the window....it doesn't seem to build up as much in the stove....

 

[Todd 2]

This is some good reading, please keep the PH threads going for I have one on order. There must be alot of people ordering these stoves that are not on this site because when I ordered mine ( first of September ) the gave me a middle of November delivery date due to over volume of orders for the PH, interesting ! Reading about the chimney set ups is great cause that will be a ??? for me when I install it. My PE summit does a good job but more heat for less wood sounds better, plus I have a buyer for my Summit. Shoulder season 16-20-25-30 hr. plus burns are not as important to me here in Ohio cause here the weather don't have as much shoulder season as further north. But when it does get cold 35 deg. to low teens for Dec. Jan. Feb. I want a stove I can fill every 10-12 hrs and throws alot of heat, not just break the chill but 75 + in side for the three cold months, 24-7 burning then. A really close to 3 q.ft. fire box ( like my PE ) but almost 2 X the mass of my PE has to do something better for more btu's during the 24-7 burn times like when my steel stove is still burning but cooling down those last 3 to 4 hrs of the heat cycle. that mass seems like its gotta make a difference ? Hot btu's more even between load times and easy on wood, I hope Im not asking for to much more than my Summit stove does, but its gonna be very interesting having owned this one and trying something totally different. Cant wait to get it and play, 6 month money back was the deal maker choosing either a BK or a big cast stove or this PH. keep the threads going people, Good Stuff !
This new stove on order is more exciting than a brand new truck, it would just wind up with wood dents anyways.

 

[chipsoflyin]

Interesting. No black smoke for me. You get black smoke even when loaded on hot coals? Have you talked with Woodstock? Maybe your cat isn't functioning properly. I know some people have had to replace their cats, and understand Woodstock has worked with the cat company to improve or modify the cat...

At the tail end of a burn cycle, the stove has cooled to the point where the cat won't be active on reload. Even with hot coals I need time to get the heat back up so the cat fires off. If not the cat will remained stalled. The cat is working although not as good as when new. Are the improved cat available or are they still working on them?

 

[rdust]

This isn't a problem with the PH. I don't think people who have not burned with one have any idea the amount of heat they put out. If you were to be away for 12 or more hours, you would still find your home toasty warm when you got home, if you had left a near full load
in the firebox and set the stove for a long slow burn. With this stove running 24/7, there is never a need to warm up the home...it is warm.

And I do believe your discussion about the Woodstock advice on getting a long cat burn, versus your explanation of how every other stove gets a long cat burn, is scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for problems. Basically it is incredibly easy to get a long cat burn:
Open damper and bypass
Rake your coals to the front, load your stove full in the same manner you do for every fire (or to what ever capacity you want),
Wood engages, close air all the way, close bypass.
Walk away.
End of story for at least 12 hours.

No adjusting of air, no waiting around and watching the fire.

That simplicity is what made me comment in an earlier post that, although I initially kept records of amount of wood burned, burn times, stove top temps, etc., I quickly lost interest because it was so darn easy to use this stove and so boringly repetitive to record everything.

And I believe you have an exaggerated idea aof the "problem" PH owners have with the secondaries. When one first got the new stove, there was a learning curve because it lights much more easily and quickly than the Fireview (my previous stove). And Woodstock didn't have the above description of how to start the fire in their original manual, probably because they knew how to get a long burn and didn't realize they'd have to tell us newbies to the PH...anyway, a quick call to Woodstock about the secondaries, and one was given the above directions, end of problem with the secondaries. So, it is easy to get the secondaries going great guns. IF you leave the bypass open and the air quite open for too long. Even when you do that, you don't get horrendously high stove top temps...lots of heat comes out the front window. And it is easy to get back to cat mode only, if you wish to, by shutting the air down.

If you light the stove in the conventional manner, at a time when you have hot coals, and it is really cold out (at least 10 below zero say),
and you want more heat from the stove per hour, you can simply leave the air somewhat more open and the stove will automatically switch between catalytic and secondary burning depending on which will give you a better burn at the given moment. Nothing you have to do other than load your fire and adjust the air for the amount of heat you want out of the stove. The stove does the rest. The time between reloads varies, obviously, depending on how much wood you put in the firebox, and how open you have the air . For me, 3/4 full firebox (if that) and closed air gives me 16 hours easily. 30 Below out, air pretty open and lots of heat coming out of the stove, 1/2 to 3/4 load, I may reload in 6 to 8 hours...However, if I'm going to be away from the home for 12 hours, the place will still be pretty comfortable even on really cold days if I leave the stove set for a slow burn. Open the air when you get home, and it does take long to raise the temp in the living area by 4 to 6 degrees..guessing 15-20 minutes max.

You could not get me to even consider a different stove...unless maybe Woodstock's new stove which has not been unveiled has an oven in it or on it...

It really is that simple, if you have a good draft and reasonably dry wood.

I never said it was a "problem" that the stove acted this way, just that it doesn't operate like a traditional cat stove. No where did I attack the stove, I posted what the manufacture already has on their site. I still think using this method long term is going to mess up the cat but only time will tell us that. To me the stove is still just a secondary type stove with a cat to clean up the left overs. This isn't a problem and it's obviously really clean burning due to this. In my opinion it's just not the stove for someone looking for stove that acts like a traditional cat.

I think I'll step away from this thread now, I don't want to ruffle anymore feathers.

 

[fire_man]

To me the stove is still just a secondary type stove with a cat to clean up the left overs. In my opinion it's just not the stove for someone looking for stove that acts like a traditional cat.

I filled my Progress 1/3 full from a cold star today - then got it hot, shut the air completely, and the secondaries NEVER FIRED. It burned 100% in cat mode - stovetop climbed to about 400 F before peaking. Very Happy.

 

[mliiiwit]

The basis of this is just about every owner has posted if the secondaries start lighting off they will continue to light off even with the air closed down. If that wasn't the case why would Woodstock explain on their web-site how to obtain a low/overnight burn?

From their site: "Low & Overnight Burning
These instructions are intended as a guide to operating your wood stove. Your timing
and final damper settings will vary depending on chimney draft, type of wood, moisture
content of the wood and size of the splits. The Progress Hybrid is simply designed and
intended to be user friendly, but it will take some practice to get used to it.

1. Before you open the loading door, you must fully open the catalytic bypass and the air
damper. Wait a minute or so for a strong draft to be established to prevent smoke from
spilling back into the room.
2. Stir up the hot coals. If necessary, excess ash should be removed before reloading the
firebox. If your stove has the optional ash pan, simply rake the hot coals back and forth
in the firebox to allow the loose ash to fall through the grate into the ash pan. If your stove does not have an ash pan,
push the hot coals to one side and shovel the loose ash into a non-combustible ash container with a tight fitting lid.
Dispose of the ash properly.
Never put an ash container on a combustible surface, like a wood floor.
3. Place several small splits on top of the hot coals and allow them to ignite.
4. Load the firebox to capacity leaving space for secondary combustion, with a mix of larger and smaller splits. Close
the loading door.
5. Adjust the air damper to its lowest setting by rotating the lever toward the loading door.
6. Close the catalytic bypass, by turning the handle counter-clockwise until it stops.
7. Initially the fire may appear to die out. This may cause a small amount of soot to collect on the glass. Any buildup on
the glass should go away with higher temperature burns."

*If* it operated just like any other cat stove they would just tell you start a fire just like any other fire and turn the air down for a low cat type burn when you wanted to achieve that mode. Instead they have to tell you to load the stove to capacity, turn the damper to the lowest setting and close the cat bypass. This is done so the secondaries don't have a chance to light off. One of my concerns would be how do I get a low burn on the same load of wood I used to warm up the house with after being away all day. If I have a long day and my inside temps aren't where I want them I may have to burn hot for an hour or so to restore temps then I turn the stove down to low for the long haul. If I have to dampen it down right from the start without ever letting the stove burn on high(per their site) how do I warm up the house before setting in for the long haul?



Yes, please do this. I think this would be much more effective than the current course of telling everyone they're wrong to form an opinion since they haven't operated the stove.

Please read my post from February regarding dark cat mode operation - link below. The draft control must be rotated to full horizontal, i.e. the draft plate is fully closed. On my PH the draft control hits a bit of resistance before closing completely and if left at this position the secondaries will remain active. If I apply a bit more force, the draft will rotate to full horizontal and the secondaries will go out in a few minutes. If my stove burns hot in this mode, there will be an occasional back puff as others have mentioned. I have not found the back puffing to be a concern. Additionally, this mode is dirty for the firebox but when I cleaned my flue this spring there was maybe a 1/4 cup of ash. I have a top vent and there was actually more debris in the stove at the bottom of the vent than there was in the flue.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-woodstock-progress-method-for-a-slow-burn.78746/#post-1075756

 

[Waulie]

I filled my Progress 1/3 full from a cold star today - then got it hot, shut the air completely, and the secondaries NEVER FIRED. It burned 100% in cat mode - stovetop climbed to about 400 F before peaking. Very Happy.

Nice Tony!

I've been doing this for the last couple weeks. I find even when loading on hot coals I can burn about a 60% load with basically no secondaries. The main reason I'm not concerned about cat only mode with a full firebox is because I can get a 12 hour all cat burn with a 60% load and 12 hours works great for me. If I need more heat, I put more wood in, but I can run 12 hour cycles with a little heat or a ton of heat. Works for me!

I almost never run completely closed, but very close. My "low" setting is to completely close the draft then just notch it open the tiniest bit.

 

[rideau]

Please read my post from February regarding dark cat mode operation - link below. The draft control must be rotated to full horizontal, i.e. the draft plate is fully closed. On my PH the draft control hits a bit of resistance before closing completely and if left at this position the secondaries will remain active. If I apply a bit more force, the draft will rotate to full horizontal and the secondaries will go out in a few minutes. If my stove burns hot in this mode, there will be an occasional back puff as others have mentioned. I have not found the back puffing to be a concern. Additionally, this mode is dirty for the firebox but when I cleaned my flue this spring there was maybe a 1/4 cup of ash. I have a top vent and there was actually more debris in the stove at the bottom of the vent than there was in the flue.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-woodstock-progress-method-for-a-slow-burn.78746/#post-1075756

Same finding re ash for me, essentially.

 

[Ashful]

You also have to make sure the small hole in the bottom of the stove near the glass is not covered with ash. It's meant to provide some air at low burns to prevent backpuffing.

What small hole near the glass? I've been over and thru this stove, and have never seen it.

 

[Todd]

I filled my Progress 1/3 full from a cold star today - then got it hot, shut the air completely, and the secondaries NEVER FIRED. It burned 100% in cat mode - stovetop climbed to about 400 F before peaking. Very Happy.

Nice Tony!

I've been doing this for the last couple weeks. I find even when loading on hot coals I can burn about a 60% load with basically no secondaries. The main reason I'm not concerned about cat only mode with a full firebox is because I can get a 12 hour all cat burn with a 60% load and 12 hours works great for me. If I need more heat, I put more wood in, but I can run 12 hour cycles with a little heat or a ton of heat. Works for me!

I almost never run completely closed, but very close. My "low" setting is to completely close the draft then just notch it open the tiniest bit.

Nothing wrong with that, most people would be very pleased to get consistant 12 hour burns especially if you could maintain those 12 hour burns no matter the weather.

 

[fire_man]

What small hole near the glass? I've been over and thru this stove, and have never seen it.

Look exactly in the center between the two steel log posts. Its at the bottom of the vertical wall just before it hits the base. There is a 1/8" hole - it can become covered if the ashes get too deep.

 

[Ashful]

Look exactly in the center between the two steel log posts. Its at the bottom of the vertical wall just before it hits the base. There is a 1/8" hole - it can become covered if the ashes get too deep.

I think you must be talking about a Woodstock Progress, not my stove!

 

[Waulie]

I think you must be talking about a Woodstock Progress, not my stove!

Dude, you asked!

 

[Ashful]

Dude, you asked!

Nope... Read back further. Simple misunderstanding.

 

[Ashful]

Dude, you asked!

Nope... Read back further. Simple misunderstanding.

 

[fire_man]

Nope... Read back further. Simple misunderstanding.

I thought Joful was talking about the Progess - but I guess he was talking about a Jotul.

 

[rideau]

I thought Joful was talking about the Progess - but I guess he was talking about a Jotul.

The response was helpful. I'll locate that air source and try to keep it free of ash...I have seen the tendrils of flame coming up from it, but only vaguely worried about covering it....seems from the description of exactly where it is as if it may be hard to NOT cover it if there is any deent ash bed....

 

[fire_man]

It takes a pretty deep layer of ash, but the hole does get covered. On a side note:

I WANT IT TO GET COLD SO I CAN START BURNING!!

(sorry I'm shouting )

 

[BrowningBAR]

It takes a pretty deep layer of ash, but the hole does get covered. On a side note:

I WANT IT TO GET COLD SO I CAN START BURNING!!

(sorry I'm shouting )

I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO WAIT ANOTHER THREE MONTHS! ! !

 

[pfd286]

I have had mine a bit over a week. It burns clean, hot and evenly. My chimne has been lined w/ a true 6" round liner with thermix insulation around it so the chimney drafts well but the stove should probably have a 7" flue collar instead of a 6". even with the damper open thre is quite a 'path' the smoke needs to travel to get into the flue and I dont think a 6" is quite enough draft.

 

[rideau]

Woodstock (along with Englander) have the best customer service in the business. Call them and talk to them directly. They will treat you great and that treatment will continue post purchase. They have a BBQ every fall and give great discounts on their stoves there. Lots of board members show up. Looks like a great time.

The Progress is a new stove with new technology. It's gonna take a couple seasons before people really get it dialed in. Initial reports are that it's a great stove. I personally wish it was cat only, but it's still on my radar for my new house.

Don't understand why people think they would prefer it to be cat only. Had a Woodstock cat. Have the PH. It is easier to use and more efficient than the FIreview, which is saying a lot. There is absolutely NO reason I can imagine to prefer this stove be straight cat.

 

[Huntindog1]

I think some are looking for more burn time. I my self think 16 hours is plenty.

But some are away from home longer periods of time and need the longer burn times.

The idea is the extra air getting in from the secondaries are shortening the burn time.

 

[Todd]

Don't understand why people think they would prefer it to be cat only. Had a Woodstock cat. Have the PH. It is easier to use and more efficient than the FIreview, which is saying a lot. There is absolutely NO reason I can imagine to prefer this stove be straight cat.

Personal preference. If it were a straight cat I think it would burn longer at a lower output which is what I want for shoulder season burns. I want to fill a stove up full and control the output with the air control, not regulate by the amount of wood in the box. For some people it's not that big of a deal and they are fine with a 12 hour or less loading schedule but I want more.