Noob comes to a party and then complains about everything including the people at the party....
Woodstock progress vs hearthstone equinox
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Noob comes to a party and then complains about everything including the people at the party....
BuckyBeaver524
Member
BuckyBeaver524
Member
Listen big guy, no need to launch a 'fanboy' rescue. I'm not complaining about anyone, I'm just asking for further backup on statements that I think are untrue or misleading. I'm not sure why you are even concerned about this...Webby is a big boy and can substantiate his claims on his own - or maybe not.
I would love to go see the factory. I even googled how far it was. 2200 miles or 34 hours of solid driving. I would spend a good bit more on the trip then the cost of the shipping.
Some of the videos are pretty good of the factory. I did like seeing the walls of the progress being put in. Two layers of stone with a air gap between.
shoot-straight
Minister of Fire
I'll stay out of the developing pi$$ing Match, but give my thoughts.
Had a hearthstone Phoenix for 10 or so years. Looked awesome, heated slower than I liked sometimes but overall did what it was supposed to. I wanted a bigger faster heating stove with longer burn times. Switched to a cat stove. Huge difference for me. Sold my hearthstone, was in good shape overall I guess. I had a issue with the door. Hearthstone was not good to deal with when I contacted them about that and some other issues. My dealer rocked, and got me a new door for free.
If you buy a hearthstone, get it from a dealer not direct!
Looked at the PH. But I really couldn't use a side loader. Them seem like a great heater. I do like my cat stove a lot. It's not perfect. But it definitely has More range in heat output for sure.
Good luck with your purchase.
Had a hearthstone Phoenix for 10 or so years. Looked awesome, heated slower than I liked sometimes but overall did what it was supposed to. I wanted a bigger faster heating stove with longer burn times. Switched to a cat stove. Huge difference for me. Sold my hearthstone, was in good shape overall I guess. I had a issue with the door. Hearthstone was not good to deal with when I contacted them about that and some other issues. My dealer rocked, and got me a new door for free.
If you buy a hearthstone, get it from a dealer not direct!
Looked at the PH. But I really couldn't use a side loader. Them seem like a great heater. I do like my cat stove a lot. It's not perfect. But it definitely has More range in heat output for sure.
Good luck with your purchase.
But what a cool drive that would be! Don't they have cherry blossoms or colorful leaves or some other thing?. Maybe get some syrup.
That is true. Lol. I would like to go visit that area but would have to pass it off as a vacation to the wife which would mean it would happen in the summer while the kids are out of school.
I simply said that I can't see how the PH would be able to deliver more BTUs than the NC30! That's it! Haven't we all already agreed that the chart is skewed? I'm not a scientist, never said I was. What's with the fanboy crap? I didn't promote a single stove in my comment. Anyone who's been around here for more than a month, knows that I've had dozens of different stoves in use. Some didn't do so good, I'll gladly share my experience. Even when I have a fabulous performer I'll still share its flaws, always have always will. I have nothing in this except expense...
I also work on stoves every single day. I see lots of cracked hearthstones as well as customers that say it doesn't heat as well as their old stove, I'll gladly share that information too.
Isn't soapstone known for being a "softer" heat? I certainly found that to be the case and That's what people keep saying. I've never heard anyone describe the nc30 this way.
Dairyman
Minister of Fire
New members come on here all the time that are confrontational. It's ok, I'll still be here next season.
Why would a noob stick around when they get treated poorly? Don't worry I'll be here too. [emoji6]
I don't. Maybe you should learn how to use a stove.
Na. Its just pick on webby day.
It would be neet to see a soapstone stove with a layered steel stone top. Like a convection deck. Get the look & good insulating qualities for the firebox. And better heat transfer on top to help bring the flue temp down.
Dairyman
Minister of Fire
Lol. I'm sorry for the jab. I know you do. But it makes me wonder sometimes. This stove cracked, that stove is uncontrollable, those ones won't heat...
BuckyBeaver524
Member
This is what I was asking clarification of: Soapstone is hindered when it comes to throwing big heat compared to a steel stove You presented this as a fact, not an opinion and I want to know what it is based on.
More specifically I said that non-cats with traditional air controls can and most will become uncontrollable if left unattended on high. It's not safe and can damage the stove.
Yes, I see cracked soapstone stoves all the time. Even replace a few a year under warranty. We have several hundred soapstone stoves in use that I get see.
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Soapstone is known to produce "soft " heat, whereas steel is known to blast a ton of heat for a shorter amount of time. For instance, a stone stove full steam ahead is running about 600 right? Steel can be 900 and still be a normal temperature. The soapstone by nature can only release a certain amount of heat, it's the nature of the stone, and is appealing to many. The PH seems to deliver the heat better due it's combustion system. I'd love to try one out!
would it be better if I didn't share what I find in the field or with my personal experience? I hope that I can help someone make a good decision.
Keep in mind that a very very small portion of the woodstove community are members here, I can see more Hearthstone stoves in one week than exist on this site. So just because only a few people report an issue on here does not mean the majority of the stove owners aren't experiencing issues with their stove.
BuckyBeaver524
Member
No pi$$ing match developing - just trying to get clarification on some statements that were made concerning soapstone. I too purchased a stove that is not perfect and has a cat. And I like it very much. I like the controllability, low emissions, and low wood consumption. But I will say that NO stove has a permanent spot on my hearth - they have to earn it. When I need a new stove, I will once again look at all the new technology out there and select accordingly. And that includes soapstone, steel, cast iron, cat, tubes, and whatever else comes down the pike.
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Dairyman
Minister of Fire
Very true. But it has nothing to do with the issues with stoves you've ran at home.
Wonder how many of those cracked hearthstones are due to not having a curing fire after the stove has been unused for a period of time?
Why does it need to be my personal experience if I've seen the issue first hand?
There's a very good chance the issues are from user error. But for the most part it's from general use. Why do you suppose Woodstock uses either 2 layers of soapstone, or a steel box that's wrapped with soapstone? They don't experience cracks from what I've seen. Whereas Hearthstone uses a single layer of stone, and have had issues with cracking. I'd say Woodstock is onto something!
BuckyBeaver524
Member
A huge amount of the heat from my stove comes blasting out of the large window. I can't speak to "soft heat" because this stove is my only reference point. Stove top temps are definitely lower then steel stoves I read about on Hearth. And the stove takes somewhat longer to warm up - but once it does, if you decide to let her run, stand back. Disclaimer: if I were just looking for a stove to use at night for a short fire, it would definitely NOT be a soapstone. Soapstone is made for longer burns.
Webby, I think it came across that you were broad brushing all soap stone stoves when you were specifically talking about hearthstone. Big difference between hearthstone and Woodstock. I've seen and experienced quite a few equinoxes and the PH is a different animal.
RIght, the Ks is handling this place with good wood and more air-sealing. With yet more weatherization I should be able to hold 70* in here in any weather.
Now you've got me wondering about your house. If you are generally within sight of the stove, where you spend most of your time, the Manny may be giving you good radiant heat. I can say that the difference in radiation between my Dutchwest (cast iron) and the Ks (soapstone) was significant. Even at 20', I can feel slight radiation off the stone stoves. Radiation will warm you, even though room temp may be a couple degrees lower. Now, both my stoves were cats; Maybe with tube stoves in steel and soapstone, radiation would be closer. Do you have any theories as to why you are getting more satisfactory results with the Manny? I'm kinda with @webby3650 here...having a hard time understanding how the Manny is out-heating the Liberty. I also think he is probably right about being able to move heat out of a steel stove faster...but I'm no scientist. That said, I think the ultimate in a situation where a lot of heat is needed, would be to have a big soaper like the PH, then put a small fan in front of it and figure out the best configuration that would move a bit of air past the sides and top of the stove. IIRC, heat will move faster when there is a steeper temp gradient between the outside and inside, and I think you could pull even more heat off the soapstone quicker with this type of setup.
BTW, you can put your stoves, present and past, in your sig if you'd like. That way, readers would be able to see at a glance what stoves you have experience with and would be better able to see if what you're saying might apply to them.
It certainly would be, especially for you at this time of year. I think they can actually tell winter from summer out there.
If you remember, Dennis used to routinely run his Fireview around 700, the highest recommended by Woodstock. I'm sure you could exceed that if you wanted to. I don't like to see my stove top next to the cat at much more than 600. I'd think the PH, with the secondary going, would get the sides hotter than what I see in my straight-cat stove, and might surprise you with some 'not-so-soft' heat.
I'd like to experience that! I'm sure it's a superior heater to other stone stoves.RIght, the Ks is handling this place with good wood and more air-sealing. With yet more weatherization I should be able to hold 70* in here in any weather.
Now you've got me wondering about your house. If you are generally within sight of the stove, where you spend most of your time, the Manny may be giving you good radiant heat. I can say that the difference in radiation between my Dutchwest (cast iron) and the Ks (soapstone) was significant. Even at 20', I can feel slight radiation off the stone stoves. Radiation will warm you, even though room temp may be a couple degrees lower. Now, both my stoves were cats; Maybe with tube stoves in steel and soapstone, radiation would be closer. Do you have any theories as to why you are getting more satisfactory results with the Manny? I'm kinda with @webby3650 here...having a hard time understanding how the Manny is out-heating the Liberty. I also think he is probably right about being able to move heat out of a steel stove faster...but I'm no scientist. That said, I think the ultimate in a situation where a lot of heat is needed, would be to have a big soaper like the PH, then put a small fan in front of it and figure out the best configuration that would move a bit of air past the sides and top of the stove. IIRC, heat will move faster when there is a steeper temp gradient between the outside and inside, and I think you could pull even more heat off the soapstone quicker with this type of setup.
BTW, you can put your stoves, present and past, in your sig if you'd like. That way, readers would be able to see at a glance what stoves you have experience with and would be better able to see if what you're saying might apply to them.
It certainly would be, especially for you at this time of year. I think they can actually tell winter from summer out there.
If you remember, Dennis used to routinely run his Fireview around 700, the highest recommended by Woodstock. I'm sure you could exceed that if you wanted to. I don't like to see my stove top next to the cat at much more than 600. I'd think the PH, with the secondary going, would get the sides hotter than what I see in my straight-cat stove, and might surprise you with some 'not-so-soft' heat.
You're a valuable asset to the shop, lay down the law; Either they get you a PH to try out, or you walk! Tell 'em they can even have it back when you're done testing it....if they can pry it from your hot, dead fingers.
Unfortunately I'm pretty sure WS doesn't care if I have one of their stoves or not. We were a WS dealer back when they used a dealer network. I'm told that we've never had a single call for repairs or service that anyone there can remember. It was way before my time.You're a valuable asset to the shop, lay down the law; Either they get you a PH to try out, or you walk! Tell 'em they can even have it back when you're done testing it....if they can pry it from your hot, dead fingers.
