Danno77 said:PETER! I just saw somebody drive away with 1/2 a cord of your wood! Don't worry, though, your pile of dirt is still there...lol
You guys are a riot today . . . twice you've made me laugh out loud today.
Wood thief - again
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You guys are a riot today . . . twice you've made me laugh out loud today.
All ya need is one of them big rubber snakes and a piece of fishing string
rigged up in your wood pile. :lol:
rigged up in your wood pile. :lol:
The truth of the matter is all well that ends well . . . and the truth of the matter is we can talk, type or think about what we would do if put in this same situation, but it is only when a similar situation ever presents itself to us that we will know how we would truly respond.
Another truth that is worth bearing in mind is that you never know with whom you're dealing with . . . sometimes it's just the run-of-the-mill coward thief . . . and sometimes it's that one guy who is just a little off kilter who equates human life to be on the same level of a house fly . . . just a thought worth considering.
Another truth that is worth bearing in mind is that you never know with whom you're dealing with . . . sometimes it's just the run-of-the-mill coward thief . . . and sometimes it's that one guy who is just a little off kilter who equates human life to be on the same level of a house fly . . . just a thought worth considering.
firefighterjake said:
You forgot the part about looking down a gun barrel or running into a raging fire.
I really don't know the laws in other more Liberal states, but in Georgia the Castle Doctrine is in effect. Here's the thing. You can't just go out and shoot someone for stealing something (wood/lawnmower, etc) but you can go out and defend your property. It's up to the thief to not give you the idea that you're in danger or he'll get shot. So if you're out stealing wood and someone comes out with a gun on you... just run. Don't try and act tough and act like you're gonna jump the homeowner or you'll be dead. Here's the part I like which mentions 'property' that's not a habitation. Wood!
"A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, relating to the use of force in defense of self or others, Code Section 16-3-23, relating to the use of force in defense of a habitation, or Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use force as provided in said Code sections, including deadly force."
"A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, relating to the use of force in defense of self or others, Code Section 16-3-23, relating to the use of force in defense of a habitation, or Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use force as provided in said Code sections, including deadly force."
stee6043 said:westkywood said:
Not quite true. Castle Doctrine (which is not recognized by all states) deals with "unlawful and/or forcible entry into an occupied home, business or car". It does not apply to your property, land, detached garage, etc. Furthermore, many US states still require you to attempt to retreat even if you're in your own home before using lethal force. And last, you have to reasonably believe the intruder intends to inflict serious injury to the occupants of the home, business or car prior to using lethal force. You cannot use lethal force to prevent someone from stealing property. You can use "reasonable force" to prevent theft. Not lethal force.
Just trying to help keep our hearth.com members out of jail here
kenny chaos said:firefighterjake said:
You forgot the part about looking down a gun barrel or running into a raging fire.
Yeah, my thinking kind of applies to being car jacked or dealing with a wood thief . . . or any "high stress" situation where words end and actions begin . . . the point where what you think or say you would do either becomes reality . . . or not.
firefighterjake said:kenny chaos said:firefighterjake said:
You forgot the part about looking down a gun barrel or running into a raging fire.
Yeah, my thinking kind of applies to being car jacked or dealing with a wood thief . . . or any "high stress" situation where words end and actions begin . . . the point where what you think or say you would do either becomes reality . . . or not.
I hear ya and I totally agree. I mentioned earlier that people should think about these things and have a plan of action.
Times are getting worse every day.
I remember the Marine who was washing dishes for a casino in Atlanta.
Walking home one night he got jumped by three or four guys brandishing a gun and a knife.
He took the gun away and killed one of them, wounded another, and just generally beat the others
into submission. I love those stories.
Few of us can do that stuff and need to know what we can and should do
in different situations.
Guns are certainly not for those inexperienced with high stress situations.
stee6043 said:westkywood said:
Not quite true. Castle Doctrine (which is not recognized by all states) deals with "unlawful and/or forcible entry into an occupied home, business or car". It does not apply to your property, land, detached garage, etc. Furthermore, many US states still require you to attempt to retreat even if you're in your own home before using lethal force. And last, you have to reasonably believe the intruder intends to inflict serious injury to the occupants of the home, business or car prior to using lethal force. You cannot use lethal force to prevent someone from stealing property. You can use "reasonable force" to prevent theft. Not lethal force.
Just trying to help keep our hearth.com members out of jail here
I have to disagree. Check Texas and Kentucky. Remember Joe Horn. He shot 2 guys in the back for stealing his neighbors stuff. Though I dissagree with his actions, the law was on his side. If someone was stealing my firewood, I would absolutely hold them at gun point. I thank God My state gives me the right to protect what I have worked for.
drdoct said:
Speak for yourself pal, my private parts happen to be very intimidating. :ahhh:
My policy has always been if they're outside the house let the police handle it. If they come inside while myself and/or my family are home (and they'd have to force their way past a very unfriendly German Shepherd and an even less friendly pembroke welsh corgi to get in...so intent would be pretty clear), then and only then will I leave it up to Mr. Browning or one of his numerous associates to handle the issue.
In a perfect world, you'd be able to go beat the tar out of the guy and that would be the end of it...but why go beating on some guy for taking wood from your pile? Sure he deserves it, and sure you aren't scared of him - but what happens the next day or month or year when the guy decides to get even? Maybe you're not home when he comes back and it's just your wife or kids around.
The way the world works today, the only way I'm going to put someone down is if they need to be put down to protect myself or my family. All the other stuff is replaceable.
westkywood said:stee6043 said:westkywood said:
Not quite true. Castle Doctrine (which is not recognized by all states) deals with "unlawful and/or forcible entry into an occupied home, business or car". It does not apply to your property, land, detached garage, etc. Furthermore, many US states still require you to attempt to retreat even if you're in your own home before using lethal force. And last, you have to reasonably believe the intruder intends to inflict serious injury to the occupants of the home, business or car prior to using lethal force. You cannot use lethal force to prevent someone from stealing property. You can use "reasonable force" to prevent theft. Not lethal force.
Just trying to help keep our hearth.com members out of jail here
I have to disagree. Check Texas and Kentucky. Remember Joe Horn. He shot 2 guys in the back for stealing his neighbors stuff. Though I dissagree with his actions, the law was on his side. If someone was stealing my firewood, I would absolutely hold them at gun point. I thank God My state gives me the right to protect what I have worked for.
Nowhere is it mentioned lethal force is justified in defending property (links below). Again, force is justified, but not lethal force. Someone has to be stealing your stuff with "the use of force" for it to justify lethal force in Kentucky. Find the definition of "using force" and I suspect it relates to threats, fear, eminent danger, etc.
TX
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00378F.htm
KY
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/503-00/080.pdf
A few thoughts...
The theif was stealing maybe $100 worth of wood. Would you want to shoot him if he was stealing $100 TV from the back of your truck?
Less likely because the TV is the result of a credit card transaction while the wood is a result of your sweat,effort,time and need to feel independant. Naturally. it's a more emotional situation.
We can assume that someone reduced to stealing wood is below the 50 percentile in most things, including brains. We also can assume those on the forum are above that.
If emotion can be kept in check, the smarter person can easily intimidate and overcome the theif without exposing oneself to risk.
Be cool, and think " what would Sun Tzu do".
The theif was stealing maybe $100 worth of wood. Would you want to shoot him if he was stealing $100 TV from the back of your truck?
Less likely because the TV is the result of a credit card transaction while the wood is a result of your sweat,effort,time and need to feel independant. Naturally. it's a more emotional situation.
We can assume that someone reduced to stealing wood is below the 50 percentile in most things, including brains. We also can assume those on the forum are above that.
If emotion can be kept in check, the smarter person can easily intimidate and overcome the theif without exposing oneself to risk.
Be cool, and think " what would Sun Tzu do".
Nowhere is it mentioned lethal force is justified in defending property (links below). Again, force is justified, but not lethal force. Someone has to be stealing your stuff with "the use of force" for it to justify lethal force in Kentucky. Find the definition of "using force" and I suspect it relates to threats, fear, eminent danger, etc.
TX
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00378F.htm
KY
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/503-00/080.pdf[/quote]
My property in Kentucky is an extension of my dwelling. The Castle Doctrine is lawful "anywhere I have the right to be", which can be a Walmart parking lot. I've got a good friend that is a prosecuting attorney that verified "anywhere I have the right to be". Google "Joe Horn" and see what he got away with in Texas. Even had him on audio saying he was going to go kill them. You can hear him rack the shotgun. He was in no danger of his life. He went outside to confront them instead of waiting for the cops. The guy stole his neighbors stuff, not his. One of them ( or both ) got shot in the back.
Dont think I'm condoning shooting someone for stealing a little wood or a gas can from my yard. I wouldnt do it. But I will do whatever is necessary to protect what I've worked hard for. If I hold someone at gun point on MY property, its then up to the thief at how things play out from there. I live in the coutry. Last time I called the law it took them 20 minutes to get here.
Below pertains to the Ky laws.....
(2) The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable under subsection (1) only when the defendant believes that the person against whom such force is used is:
(b) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary, robbery, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055, of such dwelling; or
(c) Committing or attempting to commit arson of a dwelling or other building in his possession.
TX
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00378F.htm
KY
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/503-00/080.pdf[/quote]
My property in Kentucky is an extension of my dwelling. The Castle Doctrine is lawful "anywhere I have the right to be", which can be a Walmart parking lot. I've got a good friend that is a prosecuting attorney that verified "anywhere I have the right to be". Google "Joe Horn" and see what he got away with in Texas. Even had him on audio saying he was going to go kill them. You can hear him rack the shotgun. He was in no danger of his life. He went outside to confront them instead of waiting for the cops. The guy stole his neighbors stuff, not his. One of them ( or both ) got shot in the back.
Dont think I'm condoning shooting someone for stealing a little wood or a gas can from my yard. I wouldnt do it. But I will do whatever is necessary to protect what I've worked hard for. If I hold someone at gun point on MY property, its then up to the thief at how things play out from there. I live in the coutry. Last time I called the law it took them 20 minutes to get here.
Below pertains to the Ky laws.....
(2) The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable under subsection (1) only when the defendant believes that the person against whom such force is used is:
(b) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary, robbery, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055, of such dwelling; or
(c) Committing or attempting to commit arson of a dwelling or other building in his possession.
I am SO glad to live in Calif. where, if my neighbor mistakenly belives I'm tryin' to steal his s**t, he cannot (legally) shoot first and ask questions later. That's the cops' job, tho' to be fair, officer involved shootings are rare considering what they deal with.
My firewood is stored behind the fenceline, but it can be seen when the gates are open (which they are most of the day). No one messes with it, not 'cuz I have a dowg (I don't) or firearms (I don't) but becuz (if they aren't just decent folk who wouldn't steal in the first place), they are wary of the boys in blue. The LAPD does a better job of defending my home and property than I could - not by being physically presnet all the time (of course), but by reputation.
Round here, folks mostly steal stuff they can grab quick and get $$ for - tools, jewelry, 'lectronics, etc. That's cuz most of the folks doing the stealin' are feedin' a (drug) habit and ain't interested in firewood in the first place. It's hard to fence and won't fit easily in a pocket or backpack.
Peace,
- Sequoia
My firewood is stored behind the fenceline, but it can be seen when the gates are open (which they are most of the day). No one messes with it, not 'cuz I have a dowg (I don't) or firearms (I don't) but becuz (if they aren't just decent folk who wouldn't steal in the first place), they are wary of the boys in blue. The LAPD does a better job of defending my home and property than I could - not by being physically presnet all the time (of course), but by reputation.
Round here, folks mostly steal stuff they can grab quick and get $$ for - tools, jewelry, 'lectronics, etc. That's cuz most of the folks doing the stealin' are feedin' a (drug) habit and ain't interested in firewood in the first place. It's hard to fence and won't fit easily in a pocket or backpack.
Peace,
- Sequoia
TreePapa said:
Back in the mid to late 70's, the cops were shooting anything that moved in San Diego.
Twas my first time looking down the business end of a barrel.
I was going to stick my finger in the barrel but he was shaking so bad I was afraid I'd miss it. :coolsmile:
kenny chaos said:
I wonder who was more afraid?
I had a number of interactions w/ officers of the peace in my youth, but I don't think any of them ever unholstered their weapons, let alone pointed them at me. I was scared sometimes, but fortunately for me, I don't think the cops were ever scared.
Peace,
- Sequoia
kenny chaos said:
Dito
! I'd beat his ass then push the pile over on him and say you found him that way!!
I recently put up a fence to block the view of my stacks. At first, I thought I was being overly concerned, but when I figured out what my supply was worth and how difficult would be to replace it with the same quality (and quickly), I realized that it might be a good idea to make it out of sight (and out of the minds of prospective theives).
I have too much invested in good quality firewood to let someone just wander up and take it.
I have too much invested in good quality firewood to let someone just wander up and take it.
TreePapa said:
Actually citizens have more rights to self defense than cops do. Just because the laws are written on the side of the law abiding citizen doesnt mean people are going to shoot you any time its legal. I wouldnt live in any state that doesnt give me my right to self defense. Living in the country, I'm the only one that can defend myself and my property. Bottom line, someone steals from me, I want them to go to jail.......
I have to disagree. Check Texas and Kentucky. Remember Joe Horn. He shot 2 guys in the back for stealing his neighbors stuff. Though I dissagree with his actions, the law was on his side. If someone was stealing my firewood, I would absolutely hold them at gun point. I thank God My state gives me the right to protect what I have worked for.[/quote]
I remember that case. I suppose shooting two men for stealing your neighbor's property seems reasonable to some people. I don't know who, but they're out there! I also like that case out of Texas where the homeowner shot the Japanese student who was lost and banging on his door looking for directions.
I remember that case. I suppose shooting two men for stealing your neighbor's property seems reasonable to some people. I don't know who, but they're out there! I also like that case out of Texas where the homeowner shot the Japanese student who was lost and banging on his door looking for directions.
Nonprophet said:
That's probably why my wife told me to get my a$$ inside the house and my buddy on the police force told me to call the cops from now on. Lesson learned. Like I said, but should have emphasized more, I had much more to lose than the idiot speeder. In small towns, it seems that many of their assaults and such derive from things like this. Probably not surprising, I guess...
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