Wood Stove Insert decision- Englander or Drolet?

[No Gas]

Good Day!

I've been lurking this site non stop for about a week now trying to decide on a wood stove insert. I currently have a vent less gas log set up. It came with the house and we used it for several winters. It put off good heat but I cant stand the smell. It also seems to be the culprit of what put a black soot residue all all over my walls and ceiling. The local fireplace store had no interest other than selling me a new one. That was last summer's nightmare of scrubbing the walls and ceilings of the down stairs and repainting everything. Now we're looking for a replacement to supplement our forced air gas furnace with a wood insert. I grew up with one as kid and always loved it.

Our house is a split level and is roughly 1800-2000 square feet total. The fireplace is in the down stairs- go up 6 stairs and it brings you to the kitchen and family room. Go up another 6 stairs and that brings you upstairs to the 3 bedrooms. The bedrooms are above the fireplace room. I'm very handy and can handle the install myself after reading all the posts on this forum.

As of right now I have it narrowed down to 2 different stoves. The Drolet 1800 I or the Englander Blue Ridge 500 I. I have enough room where I can physically fit the Englander but there are almost no reviews on it and I don't know if that will be too big/hot for the house. The Englander Blue Ridge 300 I seems to be identical the Drolet 1800 in size and performance but also almost no reviews. The Drolet has excellent reviews so I'm leaning towards that one. . I am in NJ so the weather isn't too cold normally. I work from home so I'm able to baby sit it if needed when its really cold.

With either unit I - I have 2 concerns. Both units say they require 27" from the top of the unit to the bottom of the combustible mantel. With the smaller Drolet i have about 24" with the Englander it's about 2" less. Do I really need to worry about this? If so I can remedy that by swapping out my wood mantel for a stone one. The next issue you can see in the picture. Both units require 84" from the base of the unit to the ceiling. Well I have this beam that runs across my ceiling. Hearth to ceiling I'm right at 84". Hearth to bottom of the beam I'm at 72 3/4". Is this enough of an issue to scrap the whole wood stove insert idea? I'm not interested in tearing the house apart to potentially move the beam or lower the hearth.


Looking for suggestions on which stove to choose and if the current clearances are an issue.

 

[begreen]

The Englander series is new since they were purchased by SBI, Drolet's parent company. We have very few reports on the new Englander stoves except for the 32-NC freestander.

The Drolet Escape 1800i has a good track record with several happy users reporting in here. It's the value version of the Osburn 2000i. The larger Englander 500i looks like the Osburn 3500i with a different door. Inside it has a vermiculite baffle instead of c-cast used in the Osburn. Not sure if the blower is different or not. That may be another place where cost cutting happened.

The mantel could have a mantel shield if concerned. This can be attached on spacers onto the underside of the mantel.

 

[EbS-P]

3+ cubic ft is massive and probably only needed of heating 24/7 with the insert. Moving from 1.7 to a 2.4 cu ft Drolet it feels really big.

How big is the fireplace room and how wide are the stairs up and out. My thoughts are you could easily get the fireplace room too hot.

 

[No Gas]

The Englander series is new since they were purchased by SBI, Drolet's parent company. We have very few reports on the new Englander stoves except for the 32-NC freestander.

The Drolet Escape 1800i has a good track record with several happy users reporting in here. It's the value version of the Osburn 2000i. The larger Englander 500i looks like the Osburn 3500i with a different door. Inside it has a vermiculite baffle instead of c-cast used in the Osburn. Not sure if the blower is different or not. That may be another place where cost cutting happened.

The mantel could have a mantel shield if concerned. This can be attached on spacers onto the underside of the mantel.

ok thanks. Yeah I'm 99% set on the Drolet 1800 I due to all the positive feedback plus it's cheaper than the Englander. Good call on the mantel shield- I'll go that route for now. I was talking to my neighbor he has the same beam and same mantel with no heat shield and no issues- he runs a Napolean insert that he had professionally installed.

3+ cubic ft is massive and probably only needed of heating 24/7 with the insert. Moving from 1.7 to a 2.4 cu ft Drolet it feels really big.

How big is the fireplace room and how wide are the stairs up and out. My thoughts are you could easily get the fireplace room too hot.

Yeah I figured the Englander would be a bit overkill and cook me out of the down stairs. The fire place room is roughly 26x13. Plus my office is also down there so another 8x12, there's a small bathroom 6x5, and closet 6x3 down there. The stairs are 36" wide going up to the kitchen/family room that is an open floor plan. In the pic the left door is my office, then door to go down the basement, steps up to kitchen, small closet, small bathroom (don't make fun of the bathroom floor it's on the list )

 

[Caw]

I have a very similar looking wood mantle above my Osburn 1600i (2019 slightly fancier version of the Drolet 1800i) and have zero issues with clearance. Check the manual of course but I doubt you'll need to do anything about it.

 

[No Gas]

I have a very similar looking wood mantle above my Osburn 1600i (2019 slightly fancier version of the Drolet 1800i) and have zero issues with clearance. Check the manual of course but I doubt you'll need to do anything about it.

Nice setup. Is it true that there is more output of heat with out the face plate kit?

 

[begreen]

I have a very similar looking wood mantle above my Osburn 1600i (2019 slightly fancier version of the Drolet 1800i) and have zero issues with clearance. Check the manual of course but I doubt you'll need to do anything about it.

View attachment 320710

That's much safer. There's a lot more room between the stove top and mantel than the OP's 24" and the mantel is shallower.

eah I figured the Englander would be a bit overkill and cook me out of the down stairs. The fire place room is roughly 26x13. Plus my office is also down there so another 8x12, there's a small bathroom 6x5, and closet 6x3 down there. The stairs are 36" wide going up to the kitchen/family room that is an open floor plan. In the pic the left door is my office, then door to go down the basement, steps up to kitchen, small closet, small bathroom (don't make fun of the bathroom floor it's on the list )

It looks like a lot of side rooms. The doorway restrictions will somewhat restrict heat going to those rooms. Getting the heat upstairs may need some assistance.

 

[Caw]

You're correct it's slightly more. I have 29.5" to the mantle. I totally missed the line where he said the exact measurements now that I'm rereading it. I was eyeballing. My insert clearance requirement to the combustible mantle is only 16".

Obviously you need to respect manual clearances. Perhaps replacing the mantle with a non combustible material is an option like OP mentioned. Plenty of good looking bon combustible options

 

[No Gas]

That's much safer. There's a lot more room between the stove top and mantel than the OP's 24" and the mantel is shallower.


It looks like a lot of side rooms. The doorway restrictions will somewhat restrict heat going to those rooms. Getting the heat upstairs may need some assistance.

Yeah the side rooms aren't really an issue with doors open- the heat should go in. At least it did with the gas logs. I'm all over the place with ideas. I really like the look of a wood stove in the fireplace rather than an insert. From what I've read though- there is conflicting info stating most of the heat would radiate to the back/sides of the fireplace and doesn't work efficiently that's why inserts were made and others says it's fine and works great. I like the look but don't want to start hacking up a stove to try to make it fit. I only have 27 1/2" height opening. Instead of overcomplicating things I think I'm just going to go with the drolet 1800 insert and leave the side panels off. I'll clean and paint the inside fireplace bricks black, heat shield for the mantle, make a block off plate and insulate. Let the stove and blower do the rest. As for getting the heat up up the stairs i'm going to have to see what happens.

 

[No Gas]

I'm about to order but back to second guessing my self. The Drolet 1800 I for $1749 plus approx $1250 for the 25' liner, liner insulation, and upgraded screened/hinged terra cotta rain cap. Or the Englander blue ridge 500 I for $2199 plus $1250 for the liner etc. I'm afraid the Drolet wont be big enough and I'm afraid of the Blue Ridge 500 because there are literally 0 reviews on it anywhere. I think I found 1 post on this site but cant remember if the user actually used it yet. My house is 1800-2000 square ft. Drolet is rated for 500-2100 and the Englander for 1000-2700. That's a pretty wide range of area but i'm about maxed on the Drolet. I'm in NJ where the weather isn't too cold but at times it is. The insert is obviously going in my fireplace which is brick masonry and it's on the outside of the house- about 22' of liner is needed. I don't plan on using a face plate for the insert because I like the look of it being open like user Caws photo above. The Englander will just fit and i think it'll look good in the fireplace opening with the bricks in the hole painted black. House was built in 1980 so I don't think it's sealed too tight where a fresh air kit is needed for either. I've read conflicting info to go as big as you can fit and build the fire accordingly- then also run a smaller insert hot so everything stays clean. The osburn 3500 seems to just be the fancier version of the Englander with good reviews. However its' about $1k more which puts me over what I want to spend on this project. Not sure which stove to go with. Does anyone know of any other USA made inserts comparable to the Englander with solid reviews in that price range? Any help is appreciated- don't want to regret a $3k purchase because I cant just take it back to the store. This will be an online purchase.

 

[EbS-P]

I'm about to order but back to second guessing my self. The Drolet 1800 I for $1749 plus approx $1250 for the 25' liner, liner insulation, and upgraded screened/hinged terra cotta rain cap. Or the Englander blue ridge 500 I for $2199 plus $1250 for the liner etc. I'm afraid the Drolet wont be big enough and I'm afraid of the Blue Ridge 500 because there are literally 0 reviews on it anywhere. I think I found 1 post on this site but cant remember if the user actually used it yet. My house is 1800-2000 square ft. Drolet is rated for 500-2100 and the Englander for 1000-2700. That's a pretty wide range of area but i'm about maxed on the Drolet. I'm in NJ where the weather isn't too cold but at times it is. The insert is obviously going in my fireplace which is brick masonry and it's on the outside of the house- about 22' of liner is needed. I don't plan on using a face plate for the insert because I like the look of it being open like user Caws photo above. The Englander will just fit and i think it'll look good in the fireplace opening with the bricks in the hole painted black. House was built in 1980 so I don't think it's sealed too tight where a fresh air kit is needed for either. I've read conflicting info to go as big as you can fit and build the fire accordingly- then also run a smaller insert hot so everything stays clean. The osburn 3500 seems to just be the fancier version of the Englander with good reviews. However its' about $1k more which puts me over what I want to spend on this project. Not sure which stove to go with. Does anyone know of any other USA made inserts comparable to the Englander with solid reviews in that price range? Any help is appreciated- don't want to regret a $3k purchase because I cant just take it back to the store. This will be an online purchase.

Can’t beat this price. Add insulation wrap. It’s not the heaviest liner but for NJ it should las a long time.

High Efficiency Wood Insert | Escape 1800 Trio 25'

The Escape 1800-I is a high efficiency wood insert. The trio includes a 25' liner kit, a 32'' x 50'' faceplate with brushed nickel trim and the appliance. Us.

www.drolet.ca

I bet you only need the extra large stove twice a year.

 

[No Gas]

Can’t beat this price. Add insulation wrap. It’s not the heaviest liner but for NJ it should las a long time.

High Efficiency Wood Insert | Escape 1800 Trio 25'

The Escape 1800-I is a high efficiency wood insert. The trio includes a 25' liner kit, a 32'' x 50'' faceplate with brushed nickel trim and the appliance. Us.

www.drolet.ca

I bet you only need the extra large stove twice a year.

I saw the trio kit but didn't know how good the liner was- the rest of the stuff I don't need/want. I could go that route and save a couple hundred using that liner as opposed the rock ford chimney supply kit. Then buy the insulation and a screened rain cap separate. You don't think I should go bigger?

 

[EbS-P]

I haven’t read much about he big SBI insert. Any hearing or cooling appliance that is sized to deliver on the hottest or coldest 3 days of the year is not sized appropriately for the other 95% if the time. If you are convinced that the 500 would deliver low enough output it’s a good stove. I’m more along the lines of less is better. Two reasons smaller hotter fires are cleaner. And second is start up time. I’m doing cold starts almost everyday. A 3 plus cu ft cold start seems unappealing.

Really I think it comes down to how you would run it.

Either stove it’s likely you will need a damper.

 

[weee123]

And second is start up time. I’m doing cold starts almost everyday. A 3 plus cu ft cold start seems unappealing.

I second this. I’m doing cold starts everyday on my 32NC Englander which is 3.5 cuft. It takes a while for it to settle in. Close to an hour. Whereas with the 1.8 cuft I had before it would take maybe 20 minutes more like 15.

The good thing about the big stove though is it heats up the house way faster than the smaller stove would. And since Im doing cold starts everyday makes the long startup time worth while. Because of the long settle in time, I don’t even bother keeping the fire going before work or right before bed if it needed it though.

 

[No Gas]

I haven’t read much about he big SBI insert. Any hearing or cooling appliance that is sized to deliver on the hottest or coldest 3 days of the year is not sized appropriately for the other 95% if the time. If you are convinced that the 500 would deliver low enough output it’s a good stove. I’m more along the lines of less is better. Two reasons smaller hotter fires are cleaner. And second is start up time. I’m doing cold starts almost everyday. A 3 plus cu ft cold start seems unappealing.

Really I think it comes down to how you would run it.

Either stove it’s likely you will need a damper.

Oh man decisions based on scenarios- this is enough to drive me crazy. I'm not convinced the 500 would deliver low enough heat because I cant find any real reviews on it. I don't know if normal operating temperatures would be too hot for the room. I don't know if running it cool will dirty up the liner too quickly. I do work from home so cold starts really aren't too much of an issue. If it's cold out the stove will be running- i just don't want to get cooked out because my office is down here. I grew up with a wood stove as a kid but never really operated one- let alone one of these new EPA stoves. Either stove is probably going to cause some frustration at first.

You say i will likely need a damper. Is that due to the chimney/liner length and too much draft? I measured just under 22' from the rain cap down where the tape measure appeared to bottom out on the smoke shelf. It was dark and cold out and i couldn't really see all the way down so figure 20-24' of liner. I'm going to have a chimney cleaner come out to check and clean all the spider webs out. I'll remeasure then.

If it needs a damper or is beneficial I'll put one in during the install. One thing I cant stand it having to redo stuff because I was being cheap. Is this the best damper for my application? Regardless of which stove i was going to use this adapter. It would be a must for the 500 due to top clearance and but now that would be in the way of the damper.

 

[Caw]

For some reference I have the Osburn 1600i I posted earlier. It's basically the 2019 version of the Drolet 1800. It's a 1.85 cu ft easy breather and I have it on a 24' straight shot external chimney with an uninsulated liner. The chimney is in a perfect spot on my property when you take into account trees, wind, and the roof so I have very strong draft....borderline too much. Installing a damper would not be a bad idea but I just manage it by not overloading the stove and keeping the temp/wind in mind when loading. I'm also burning exclusively perfectly dry 3 year old hardwood so it all happens very fast. I can usually settle it into cruise control off coals in 15-20 min. Cold starts depend on load size but 5-10 min longer.

The point of all this is you're considering a similar set up and adding an insulated liner which will boost draft so adding a key damper at install might be a good option. Worst case you never use it but there's a decent chance it'll be helpful sometimes and it's way easier to add at install than to retrofit!

 

[EbS-P]

the damper lets you cheat the low end burn rate at the expense of a dirty burn. I’m finding more evidence that I need to run hotter. Also. It complicates running the stove since the secondary air is unreguaulated but you adjust the only the primary air.

Data point my 1800i can easily heat me out of a 1111 sq ft basement with a 17’ glass garage door. I must really run it low. And then only ever have done a cold start and a cold reload. Tough choice. If you work from home the 12 hour burn isn’t that important.

 

[begreen]

Oh man decisions based on scenarios- this is enough to drive me crazy. I'm not convinced the 500 would deliver low enough heat because I cant find any real reviews on it. I don't know if normal operating temperatures would be too hot for the room. I don't know if running it cool will dirty up the liner too quickly. I do work from home so cold starts really aren't too much of an issue. If it's cold out the stove will be running- i just don't want to get cooked out because my office is down here. I grew up with a wood stove as a kid but never really operated one- let alone one of these new EPA stoves. Either stove is probably going to cause some frustration at first.

You say i will likely need a damper. Is that due to the chimney/liner length and too much draft? I measured just under 22' from the rain cap down where the tape measure appeared to bottom out on the smoke shelf. It was dark and cold out and i couldn't really see all the way down so figure 20-24' of liner. I'm going to have a chimney cleaner come out to check and clean all the spider webs out. I'll remeasure then.

If it needs a damper or is beneficial I'll put one in during the install. One thing I cant stand it having to redo stuff because I was being cheap. Is this the best damper for my application? Regardless of which stove i was going to use this adapter. It would be a must for the 500 due to top clearance and but now that would be in the way of the damper.

Read the review for the Osburn 3500i. It's the same firebox but with a different door and a c-cast baffle. The blower may be different, not sure about that.
The advantage of the larger firebox will be more loading flexibility. It will take an 18" split loaded E/W or N/S. The firebox can be loaded 50% for smaller fires. If the stovyou think that most of the time you will be wanting low heat, then go for the 1800i.

If the stove room is isolated from significant parts of the house, then maybe a smaller 2 cu ft insert would be better? The 2 cu ft True North TN20 insert will load splits N/S or E/W. Based on the pictures provided, all convected heat will have to go through a narrow 3'? stair hallway. This likely means that the stove room will be much hotter regardless, unless some forced convection helps push cooler air from upstairs down to the stove room.

 

[No Gas]

For some reference I have the Osburn 1600i I posted earlier. It's basically the 2019 version of the Drolet 1800. It's a 1.85 cu ft easy breather and I have it on a 24' straight shot external chimney with an uninsulated liner. The chimney is in a perfect spot on my property when you take into account trees, wind, and the roof so I have very strong draft....borderline too much. Installing a damper would not be a bad idea but I just manage it by not overloading the stove and keeping the temp/wind in mind when loading. I'm also burning exclusively perfectly dry 3 year old hardwood so it all happens very fast. I can usually settle it into cruise control off coals in 15-20 min. Cold starts depend on load size but 5-10 min longer.

The point of all this is you're considering a similar set up and adding an insulated liner which will boost draft so adding a key damper at install might be a good option. Worst case you never use it but there's a decent chance it'll be helpful sometimes and it's way easier to add at install than to retrofit!

Thanks! good info and yeah going with the 1800 I'll have a similar setup as yours. I think I'll add one to the parts list once I figure what I need.

the damper lets you cheat the low end burn rate at the expense of a dirty burn. I’m finding more evidence that I need to run hotter. Also. It complicates running the stove since the secondary air is unreguaulated but you adjust the only the primary air.

Data point my 1800i can easily heat me out of a 1111 sq ft basement with a 17’ glass garage door. I must really run it low. And then only ever have done a cold start and a cold reload. Tough choice. If you work from home the 12 hour burn isn’t that important.

Thanks! More good info. Over complicating things. That's what I do- I may as well add 2 dampers. In all seriousness where would I add the key damper? In the connector from stove to liner? The ones I've seen so far are all installed in the hard stove pipe. I think I saw one installed in an actual stove insert that had the outlet protruding a few inches from the stove. I don't think the 1800 has that much protruding out though. Haven't really looked yet to see if they make a connector with the damper built in.

Read the review for the Osburn 3500i. It's the same firebox but with a different door and a c-cast baffle. The blower may be different, not sure about that.
The advantage of the larger firebox will be more loading flexibility. It will take an 18" split loaded E/W or N/S. The firebox can be loaded 50% for smaller fires. If the stovyou think that most of the time you will be wanting low heat, then go for the 1800i.

If the stove room is isolated from significant parts of the house, then maybe a smaller 2 cu ft insert would be better? The 2 cu ft True North TN20 insert will load splits N/S or E/W. Based on the pictures provided, all convected heat will have to go through a narrow 3'? stair hallway. This likely means that the stove room will be much hotter regardless, unless some forced convection helps push cooler air from upstairs down to the stove room.

Thanks! Good call-and like others have said if I'm only loading a bigger stove to have small fires i don't really need the big stove. I'm really leaning towards the 1800 plus it'll be less expensive.

 

[EbS-P]

Thanks! good info and yeah going with the 1800 I'll have a similar setup as yours. I think I'll add one to the parts list once I figure what I need.


Thanks! More good info. Over complicating things. That's what I do- I may as well add 2 dampers. In all seriousness where would I add the key damper? In the connector from stove to liner? The ones I've seen so far are all installed in the hard stove pipe. I think I saw one installed in an actual stove insert that had the outlet protruding a few inches from the stove. I don't think the 1800 has that much protruding out though. Haven't really looked yet to see if they make a connector with the damper built in.


Thanks! Good call-and like others have said if I'm only loading a bigger stove to have small fires i don't really need the big stove. I'm really leaning towards the 1800 plus it'll be less expensive.

 

[No Gas]

View attachment 321163

That is exactly what i needed. Thanks!

 

[No Gas]

To continue complicating things... While researching dampers and what not I found a lot of talk on stove and flue pipe temps. I know most of you guys monitor for optimum performance and efficiency- which is what I plan on doing but where do I find the specs? Are they specific to the stove or I need to do more researching . I've seen some posts with 1200 degree flu temps if the fire takes off from over drafting/over loading or whatever reason. Is that hot enough to burn things down or damage the stove/liner? I'd bet the majority of stove users have no clue what their stove and flue temps are. I know for sure my wife would just throw a bunch of wood in there and let er rip if she was left unsupervised. At the end of the day these are still wood stoves but more complicated than I expected. I'm starting to think the one I grew up with was a old "slammer" or "smoke dragon".

 

[weee123]

1200 is wicked hot for flue temps. The most I let mine get to is a little over 600 anymore than that and it’s just wasted heat up the flue. Cruising temps for me are around 540 and below.

 

[No Gas]

Well I've finally decided! I'm going with the Drolet 1800 insert trio kit. I have a chimney sweep/inspection scheduled- earliest I could get was 1/9. I tried to order the Drolet from their site and it keeps giving an error. Clicked the button 4x and it wont go through. I hope I didn't' just order 4 stoves. I tried to call them to order but they are closed. I'll try again on Tuesday. In the mean time i'll order the rest of what i need from Rockford Chimney supply. For the liner insulation do I need 1/4" or 1/2"? Clearance shouldn't be an issue. I also need to get to lowes or hd and get some metal to fab up a block off plate.

 

[Caw]

New stove hype let's gooooo! Pretty good getting someone for 1/9 my guy is booked thru May this time of year. Good luck!

Keep us updated. I'm curious how you like the 1800i. That's the newer version of my stove like I mentioned just a little different trim.