Wood Stove For 100 Year Old Farmouse Advise Request

[Nigel459]

At http://www.oldhouseweb.com/forums/ it is claimed that blown-in insulation on old homes gradually accumulates moisture to the degree of becoming wet enough that it degrades the insulative properties and increases possible mold issues.

I bet the moisture would be due to the fact that you’re not adding a vapour barrier, just the loose cellulose or whatever. Moisture from inside would definitely infiltrate an old wall with no vapour barrier and get into whatever’s in there.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

They are not coal stoves they are 100 yr old open coal fireplaces

I dont think id trust those.

 

[bholler]

I dont think id trust those.

Nope

 

[jetsam]

100 years ago it was almost 1920, they knew better than to be building open fireplaces. :/

I pulled out the wall of an attached garage one time and found that it was insulated with newspaper, mostly from the 30s. Wasn't moldy, and a lot of it was legible. Pretty interesting (though you can read many old newspapers online now anyway).

 

[begreen]

That will yield pretty fuzzy results. If you do that test in a calm day, I suspect the heat loss will be 4x as much on a windy day. With your (lack of) insulation & air sealing situation.

Also you would want to air seal the attic when you insulate.

Also, such a test would need to be conducted over time with relatively calm outside winds and steady temperatures. You have to allow for the mass of the building and its contents to equalize to room temp, not just for the heater to bring up the air temp.

 

[begreen]

You are correct about the venting issue. Not planning to fit it within the fireplace, but in front of it spaced 18" out from a steel heat shield covering the fireplace opening. I'm now looking at a low height stove such as an Osburn Inspire 2000 (less than 24" high with the minimalist base), vented with an elbow and horizonal pipe afterward, routed through the steel heat shield and up the flue of the chimney.

The Osburn Inspire 2000 is an insert. It goes into the fireplace, not in front of it. What is being described is both against code, but also would perform quite poorly. That is why I suggested the Regency Hearth Heater earlier.

What are the dimensions of the fireplace firebox?

 

[maple1]

Also, such a test would need to be conducted over time with relatively calm outside winds and steady temperatures. You have to allow for the mass of the building and its contents to equalize to room temp, not just for the heater to bring up the air temp.

Yes certainly that too. Recovery takes a LOT of btus.

 

[marsofold]

The Osburn Inspire 2000 is an insert. It goes into the fireplace, not in front of it. What is being described is both against code, but also would perform quite poorly. That is why I suggested the Regency Hearth Heater earlier.

What are the dimensions of the fireplace firebox?

The inspire 2000 is made BOTH as a stove and as an insert (2000-I). The minimalist base option (1" thick?) makes it really low. Attached is a photo with the soapstone base option. 2.4 ft3 firebox.

 

[marsofold]

Also:

 

[Ashful]

A stove in a masonry fireplace usually does not work very well, anyway. This is something I have painfully much experience with, see my avatar for just one example.

Cool place, looks like an adventure. I don’t have a ton to offer here, but I’ll enjoy watching this move and setup. One thing I will suggest, or more accurately ask bholler, is why not punch a thimble in above the lintel if the flue turns out to be suitable for a liner?

 

[marsofold]

I want to say a big "thank you" to begreen and all of the other people with their wise advice and personal time they put into being here. Sometimes the problem is just not knowing what you don't know. I don't know the terminology (like a "thimble") not in common use among non-stove experts. I don't know the "rules" for safety even though they may not be enforced in places like rural WV. I do like to try to think outside the box, so please bear with that a bit. Until I go to my place in WV in march, I won't know the critical dimensions of my fireplace and liner status that will truly determine my options. So all that I can do now is look at the worst case situation for possible options. Thus my interest in a wide big (2.5 ft3) firebox stove with a very low venting setup. I hope you all don't mind me picking your brains for info I simply can't get elsewhere.

 

[begreen]

The inspire 2000 is made BOTH as a stove and as an insert (2000-I). The minimalist base option (1" thick?) makes it really low. Attached is a photo with the soapstone base option. 2.4 ft3 firebox.

Thanks for posting the pictures. Is this sold in the US? I visited the official Osburn website twice looking for it, but didn't see it listed. Then I searched on the model number that was in your posting and that brought it up on a different site. This still doesn't solve the issue of trying to run a top vent stove with an elbow right off the top and then going horizontal to a short chimney liner. This is will not work well.

 

[bholler]

A thimble is basically the hole in the chimney where the pipe connects. And if you have room for a liner that is what I would recomend. But honestly there is no point in talking about any of this. Untill you know the inside dimensions of that flue you can't form any plan

 

[Ashful]

A thimble is basically the hole in the chimney where the pipe connects. And if you have room for a liner that is what I would recomend. But honestly there is no point in talking about any of this. Untill you know the inside dimensions of that flue you can't form any plan

Says you, who knows exactly what you'd do when you see it. But talking the OP thru the potential options will help them to make that decision, or at least know what next questions to ask, when they get there.

 

[marsofold]

This still doesn't solve the issue of trying to run a top vent stove with an elbow right off the top and then going horizontal to a short chimney liner. This is will not work well.

I don't understand why this would be a problem if the pipe within the chimney continued upward to the top of the chimney for adequate draft. If the draft is OK and the clearances are safe, then what is the issue?

 

[bholler]

I don't understand why this would be a problem if the pipe within the chimney continued upward to the top of the chimney for adequate draft. If the draft is OK and the clearances are safe, then what is the issue?

Many times a stove will not draft well with an elbow right ontop of the stove. If you have enough height this can be overcome. But your chimney looks like 15 to 18 feet at most. That may not be enough to overcome it.

 

[bholler]

Says you, who knows exactly what you'd do when you see it. But talking the OP thru the potential options will help them to make that decision, or at least know what next questions to ask, when they get there.

You have a point there. But honestly there isn't much to this decision. Either there is enough room in the flue for an insulated 6" or equivalent oval liner or there isn't. If there is you drop a liner either to a rear vent stove or punch a hole for a top vent above the old firebox and connect to the liner there. If there isn't room for a liner you either put in a prefab chimney which makes the most sense to me. Or go with some other idea. It all revolves around the size of that flue

 

[marsofold]

Many times a stove will not draft well with an elbow right ontop of the stove. If you have enough height this can be overcome. But your chimney looks like 15 to 18 feet at most. That may not be enough to overcome it.

I would disagree on the total chimney height of your estimate. The ceilings are measured at 10 feet inside and the attic looks to me to be another 9 feet. With the chimney around three feet above the peak, I'd guess that it is 21-22 feet. That isn't high enough for decent draft? I see lots of online installation instructions with exactly the same setup (90 degree elbow, horizonal pipe, T, and upward liner. Here is another photo of the house and chimney. The stove in question is available in Tennessee (eFireplace).

 

[begreen]

I see lots of online installation instructions with exactly the same setup (90 degree elbow, horizonal pipe, T, and upward liner.

I can't say I have ever seen this recommended in a stove manual. Contact Osburn and see what they say.

The stove in question is available in Tennessee (eFireplace).

Like bholler says, nothing really can be decided until we have real dimensions and flue info from the house.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

I don't know the "rules" for safety even though they may not be enforced in places like rural WV.

Fate enforces the safety rules no matter your municipality.

Please be safe. You're apparently going to be out of easy reach of emergency services out there, and we want you to come here often and show us how you're making out.

 

[bholler]

I would disagree on the total chimney height of your estimate. The ceilings are measured at 10 feet inside and the attic looks to me to be another 9 feet. With the chimney around three feet above the peak, I'd guess that it is 21-22 feet. That isn't high enough for decent draft? I see lots of online installation instructions with exactly the same setup (90 degree elbow, horizonal pipe, T, and upward liner. Here is another photo of the house and chimney. The stove in question is available in Tennessee (eFireplace).

By counting claps that to me look like they are about 5" that tells me you are about 17 from the bottom of the siding to the peak. Add 3 feet for the chimney you are at 20. Then subtract the thickness of the floor and the height of the stove you are back to around 17.

 

[moresnow]

By counting claps that to me look like they are about 5" that tells me you are about 17 from the bottom of the siding to the peak. Add 3 feet for the chimney you are at 20. Then subtract the thickness of the floor and the height of the stove you are back to around 17.

Not to mention the effect of two 90's in a top vented offset install. More food for thought.

 

[marsofold]

OK. I'm going to drop this particular thread till March when I'll be back in WV to take measurements. I am also interested in the possibility of using an outdoor setup. Either an outdoor hot air furnace (not a boiler), or a homebuilt batch rocket stove. Preferably with a convective duct connection to the house to avoid the need for electricity. A big thank you to all for their very informative advice.

 

[begreen]

The kitchen looks decently sized. Keep the idea of a kitchen stove in the back of your head. They make some nice compact models with efficient fireboxes if space is tight. Checkout Spacebus's thread on their new Timmin stove.

 

[maple1]

I would also not even consider an outdoor furnace or outdoor burner of any kind. Should be lots of stove related options available ahead of going to that extreme.