I could not disagree more it is not acceptable just because the stove manufacturer says so the manufacturer of the fire place needs to be ok with it also and really the 2 should be tested together. And CSIA recommends against it because they feel the risk in both liability and safety is not worth it. The problem is that there are so many zeroclearance units out there there is no way that a company can safely say go ahead and put our insert in what ever zc you have. Now if they tested in specific units and found those to ba acceptable thet is one thing but that generally is not the case. And i don't see how anyone can say that it is ok if the zeroclearance manufacturer says you can not use any accessories not designed for this unit. Many even say no inserts and i have seen guys still say it is ok and in my opinion there is no way it is ok to put an insert in any zc that says either of those things. I would like to know what standard those stove companies are testing to as far as i know there is no ul standard for a insert in a zc unit am i wrong? Or do they make up their own standards.
Will wood stove save me money
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I could not disagree more it is not acceptable just because the stove manufacturer says so the manufacturer of the fire place needs to be ok with it also and really the 2 should be tested together. And CSIA recommends against it because they feel the risk in both liability and safety is not worth it. The problem is that there are so many zeroclearance units out there there is no way that a company can safely say go ahead and put our insert in what ever zc you have. Now if they tested in specific units and found those to ba acceptable thet is one thing but that generally is not the case. And i don't see how anyone can say that it is ok if the zeroclearance manufacturer says you can not use any accessories not designed for this unit. Many even say no inserts and i have seen guys still say it is ok and in my opinion there is no way it is ok to put an insert in any zc that says either of those things. I would like to know what standard those stove companies are testing to as far as i know there is no ul standard for a insert in a zc unit am i wrong? Or do they make up their own standards.
The h2100 is an insert that extends out the front farther than most but it is still an insert.
Note that the statement I got from CSIA said nothing about concerns for safety. We are not talking generalities here but specifics. That is exactly why I asked for the make and model of the OP's ZC unit.
In my training they were very specific about their stance on this issue because it was brought up and they expressed safety and liability concerns. I know what their response t you was you have told me many times. And i do know that some stove makers test in some zc units but i have yet to hear what standards they test to and how modifying the zc unit even by simply removing the damper does not void the ul listing of that unit making it unusable. I know we are never going to agree on this and i will never change your mind but i feel i have to express my view and that of many others as well when the topic comes up.
So why does it then in the manual show the hearth heater with a rear-vent and the back of the insert flush with fireplace opening? (see page 8 or 9)
How about contacting Travis or other stove manufacturers and asking them that question directly?
after looking at that i guess i am wrong why is it called an insert then? sorry by bad
i have asked regency and got no answer i havnt tried others. But i cant get past the fact that it contradicts the instructions for just about evry zc unit out there
mojaveron
Member
I live in Southern California Desert its in the Southwestern area of Phelan that's located in the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains elevation 4,600 feet it can get pretty cold here 20's to mid teens occasionally.
My house has a Heatilator HB36A PreFab Fireplace and I purchased and installed a Regency H2100 Hearth Heater 20 years ago its our only heat source and its saved me a ton of money on propane. I get by with 25 to 30 gallons of propane a month in the winter months.
okHello! We have the Regency H2100 for the same reason .. size of our tiny prefab fireplace and sq ft (1550). We live in Northern Cali and have mild winters. We used the only certified, licensed chimney and wood stove install guy within 200 miles to confirm we could use this model safely and install it. (After the dealer and mfg said it was good to go in our set up.) Better safe than sorry to us.
Our fireplace is on a stone wall, floor to ceiling and quite wide. The stone wall has a small, quiet fan in the bottom on either side and vents up to circulate the warm air out. So the stone keeps the home warm for hours if the fire goes out. I can't really tell what's surrounding your fireplace? Either way, husband or I are always up at some point in the night and will reload wood then. If you sleep all night, it might be a problem for you as you won't get all-night burns. But we come pretty close and those rare nights neither of us wake, there are plenty of coals to get the fire going again quickly. Every morning we take out ash to create more room in the firebox for the wood. We use a small steel, hand shovel and bucket and then take that outside since you don't want hot ash sitting in your home. Once the ash cools, you dispose of it.
Where is your fireplace located in your home? Good stuff if it's in the middle.
We love our stove and the big glass, viewing area of the fire. It's the radiant and convective heat together that, to us is so warm it's priceless. This heat warms to the bone, so comfy! But also warms the walls, the floors, the furniture, everything. Not just the air like furnaces. We have a propane furnace also and don't use it anymore except for hot water and do fill it in the summer (2.20 gallon).
It does take time to operate and keep it going. We work from home so this isn't an issue for us. It also takes time to learn how to use it but all wood stoves have a learning curve.
Cons: The convective air moving out the top of the unit creates a fine dust that has to be cleaned up off the floor and furniture and stuff in the stove room. All inserts create this fine dust, I believe. Since there are no ducts, vents and giant blower, you'll have to figure how to move the warm air around your home to the different rooms, even if you use the blower that comes with the stove. Little fan at the end of the house blowing colder air into the stove room works for us. We use a tiny fan like computers have. Small, quiet and very effective. The firebox isn't the biggest on the market, so more reloads. We prefer our bedrooms cool/cold for sleeping - love it that way!
Money wise, it will probably take us another 2-3 years to get our initial investment back (stove, install, wood, taking down walls to create an open-concept, etc). So the longer it holds up well after that point, the better our investment. I have to say if it died today, I'd go buy anotherI like it that much. It's a whole life thing lol so cozy and good for the soul. I actually look forward to winter so we can burn.
Once you get the procedure for wood-burning down, it's a lot easier. But it still takes time. Not just push a button and get heat.
my fireplace is not in the middle of home but its a very open floor plan and it sits directly down the path of my small hallway that would hopefully take the heat to all the rooms. i also have ceiling fans in same room as fireplace that may help too i hope. so with your install and everything how much did it cost you i was quoted 3600 not sure if that is reasonable. also on burning time i only need it to burn 5-6 hours during the week i dont sleep much but on weekedn i get my 8-10 hours so it may go out then.
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hahah no way thats where i live great i live off caughlin rd awesome you know how cold it gets you probably convinced me to get it now. yaa i didnt think it would cost that much to heat my house in winter its only my 2nd year here. and i dont want to burn up amother 1700 in just the winter months and last year i think we had a warmer winter. soo you say the regency 2100 will take care of me out here 1500 sqft house
mojaveron
Member
Yea I live off Sunnyslope Rd and SheepCreek. last year was the warmest winter ive seen in the 20 years ive lived up here. My house is also 1500 sqft and the regency 2100 heats it just fine I turn on the celing fan and it distributes the heat. My central heating unit quit working about 17 years ago and I never wanted to get it fixed to prevent family members from just turning up the thermostat, now they go out to the log pile and get a fire going when its cold.
![[Hearth.com] Will wood stove save me money](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/139/139671-dcd8cafea0af0ef49fad0389eb853372.jpg?hash=qyCB8kiU2P "[Hearth.com] Will wood stove save me money")
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Have you checked what is under your hearth? Does not look like it would have a r-value of 1.1 when there would be wood underneath.
mojaveron
Member
It has a concrete foundation underneath the 2 inch stone and its hard to see in picture I have 3 1/2 inch legs under the stove.
does anyone know if the regency h2100 installed and tax and everything for 3600 is a fair price, i think this will be my cheapest option as well
Great, that's a Superior fireplace. It is approved for insert install by Travis and Regency following the insert manual's requirements and guidelines.
ok good does that mean i have other options besides the regency h2100 or do you think that is still the best bet for this setup
The Lopi Answer and Republic 1250 are a skosh too tall for a 19" opening. The Regency H2100 is a good choice.
Mellery
Member
That's a very fair price. We paid 4300 for ours 2 years ago (included insulation behind the unit in the fireplace opening, block off plate, ss liner to go inside the ss liner already there from an older insert, cleaning the filthy chimney from prior owners, the surround that hides the hole and insulation, choice of door, blower, stove thermometer) Our dealer quoted everything we needed and wanted, but didn't know then. I've heard some dealers will piece-meal their quotes. I also recall 1800 was labor.
It cranks out the heat, you will find yourself cracking open a window or 2 and leaving it that way. We had a 10-day period last winter when it didn't get above 28 degrees and the house stayed warm. It gets into the teens and 20's here regularly. When i said earlier we have mild winters, I meant in comparison to those in Minnesota, Alaska, Canada. The unit is so efficient when used with dry, well-seasoned wood, we cannot fill it to the brim and keep it going full-bore - we'd be blown out of our home. We could easily go below zero and still stay warm. We have a huge crawl space under our home, I can stand up under 1/3 of it, as we live on the side of a mountain, poorly insulated, older ranch, wood frame home.
Such an experience is the reason I suggested a small cat stove like the Woodstock Keystone. With that stove you can turn the air down more which will give you a more even heat output and longer burn times than with a secondary burn stove like the H2100. You are less likely to sweat in the evening but then wake up to a cold house in the morning. Whether you feel that convenience is worth the extra money is up to you.
. DO NOT use a fireplace insert or any other
products not specified herein by the manufac-
turer for use with this fireplace. All gas log sets
must be operated with the damper clamped
open, including unlisted “vent free” log sets.
Listed “vent-free” log sets may be operated
with the damper closed.
This is directly from the instruction manual for the Superior fire place i really cant see how any one can read this and think it is ok to put an insert or hearth heater in that unit.
Do not alter or modify the fireplace or its components under any
circumstances. Any modification or alteration of the fireplace system,
including but not limited to the fireplace, chimney components and
accessories, may void the warranty, listings and approvals of this system
and could result in an unsafe and potentially dangerous installation
And here is another out of the same manual
products not specified herein by the manufac-
turer for use with this fireplace. All gas log sets
must be operated with the damper clamped
open, including unlisted “vent free” log sets.
Listed “vent-free” log sets may be operated
with the damper closed.
This is directly from the instruction manual for the Superior fire place i really cant see how any one can read this and think it is ok to put an insert or hearth heater in that unit.
Do not alter or modify the fireplace or its components under any
circumstances. Any modification or alteration of the fireplace system,
including but not limited to the fireplace, chimney components and
accessories, may void the warranty, listings and approvals of this system
and could result in an unsafe and potentially dangerous installation
And here is another out of the same manual
This is from the Lopi Revere insert's UL-listing label:
![[Hearth.com] Will wood stove save me money](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/139/139718-ddc967e17f99bd92d5c58b563b75c4a4.jpg?hash=uGpYuSNMu1 "[Hearth.com] Will wood stove save me money")
I read that as installing the insert in a ZC fireplace is still a tested and listed way of using it. Essentially, installing it in a ZC fireplace according to the manufacturer's instructions supersedes the UL-listing of the fireplace. Similar to putting an insulated liner down a non-code compliant chimney to make it code compliant.
I read that as installing the insert in a ZC fireplace is still a tested and listed way of using it. Essentially, installing it in a ZC fireplace according to the manufacturer's instructions supersedes the UL-listing of the fireplace. Similar to putting an insulated liner down a non-code compliant chimney to make it code compliant.
Yes but in those instructions they tell you you can just direct connect the insert into a zero clearance fireplace chimney without any mention of the fact that the majority of those chimneys are not tested to the ht standard required for a wood stove and there for in no way meets code. And in the paragraph before that they say it can be installed in a masonry fireplace with or without a direct flue connector. So they are oking slammer installs so i don't trust their safety testing in any way whatsoever i am sorry.
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