Will need a new chain soon. Time to increase my chain IQ.

[Jon1270]

Get the bar buried in pine, fir or some other soft woods and skip will cut faster than full comp. It has a lot to do with clearing the chips. You can plug the gap with full whereas skip takes a bit more.

Good point. The thing is, there are a lot of variables in play that determine how easy and efficient the cutting is, and the effect of any change you might make depends on the larger context -- wood species and condition, available horsepower, bar length, chain pitch, tooth shape and pattern, the number of teeth on the sprocket, etc. It's easy enough to suggest solutions if you have a specific problem you want to solve, e.g. if you want to cut faster, or smoother, or stay sharp longer, or to be able to lean on the saw in the cut without stalling it so easily, but there are always trade-offs, and no one set of hardware is best for all conditions.

So, OP, if you could change one thing about the way your saw has been behaving, what would it be?

 

[7acres]

Good point. The thing is, there are a lot of variables in play that determine how easy and efficient the cutting is, and the effect of any change you might make depends on the larger context -- wood species and condition, available horsepower, bar length, chain pitch, tooth shape and pattern, the number of teeth on the sprocket, etc. It's easy enough to suggest solutions if you have a specific problem you want to solve, e.g. if you want to cut faster, or smoother, or stay sharp longer, or to be able to lean on the saw in the cut without stalling it so easily, but there are always trade-offs, and no one set of hardware is best for all conditions.

So, OP, if you could change one thing about the way your saw has been behaving, what would it be?

Honestly, as I think about it only 2 things. 1) I spend too much time cutting with a less than super sharp chain and 2) when cutting frozen trunks the chain seems to ice skate and won't bite in without me finagling it.

 

[Jon1270]

Honestly, as I think about it only 2 things. 1) I spend too much time cutting with a less than super sharp chain and 2) when cutting frozen trunks the chain seems to ice skate and won't bite in without me finagling it.

Sounds like the latter might be a consequence of the former.

 

[Jon1270]

when cutting frozen trunks the chain seems to ice skate and won't bite in

FWIW, the needle-like points on a sharp chisel chain will bite in more easily -- that's basically why they cut faster in general -- but if you're regularly cutting dirty wood and don't like sharpening then semi-chisel is the better choice. Chisel is quite a lot faster in optimum conditions (clean wood, plenty of horsepower), and its both fun and satisfying to use when everything is right, but it doesn't sound like a great choice for you. I'd go with semi-chisel something. Full comp or skip is debatable.

 

[7acres]

Well, I've learned a ton on this thread. Now what I'm missing is some experience with these various chains. I'll take the wisdom to heart about having different chains on hand. Makes a lot of sense. There are times when I'm cutting nice clean wood. And I love the way my current full comp, full chisel cuts like butter and throws piles of large shavings when it's just been sharpened. But I definitely feel I need a skip tooth semi chisel on hand also when I'm working with dirty wood and need to sharpen often.

And I'll have to try a gallon of 110 octane racing fuel. My closest gas station has a couple pumps of 110. So why would I be fooling with Klotz when I can just buy 110? Never even crossed my mind. Thanks for the tip EMB5530!

My neighbor is giving me 6 trees he's having felled next week. This stuff will be clean as it's currently all standing. So I'm tempted to buy two different chains. One for dirty and one for clean wood.

 

[Jon1270]

Going back to this:

I've been trying to educate myself on Stihl's site. So "RS" stands for Rapid Super. With Rapid referring to the cutter type and Super referring to the cutter shape. Did I get that right?

Not quite right. Stihl's documentation will tell you that Rapid indicates the cutter "type" but what they really mean is that it tells you about the relative size of the cutter. R/Rapid indicates a standard-sized cutter, while P/Picco indicates a smaller low-profile cutter. Bizarrely, M/Micro does not tell you anything about the cutter size; it means semi-chisel, whereas Super means full chisel.

 

[Fifelaker]

What does your owners manual call for fuel? Mine says 89 octane. There was some dyno work done on fuels for saws on another site and IIRC anything over 91 octane slowed the saw down and wasted money. High octane is needed in high compression engines to stop pre-ignition. Low octane lights off easier (lower temp) than high octane. Now go try some of each and make some timed cuts and report back but you will more than likely have to retune for each fuel.

 

[7acres]

What does your owners manual call for fuel? Mine says 89 octane. There was some dyno work done on fuels for saws on another site and IIRC anything over 91 octane slowed the saw down and wasted money. High octane is needed in high compression engines to stop pre-ignition. Low octane lights off easier (lower temp) than high octane. Now go try some of each and make some timed cuts and report back but you will more than likely have to retune for each fuel.

Manual says, "Use mid-grade unleaded gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 89 (R+M/2)."

So it isn't clear what the engine was designed to run on for the best performance just from reading the owner's manual. They're more trying to set the absolute lower threshold rather than recommend an ideal octane number. Stihl's MotoMix is 92 octane. I'd have to think if Stihl is making and promoting the use of their own blend of ideal fuel at 92 octane that would set the gold standard for what Stihl recommends for best performance. Just an observation.

 

[Fifelaker]

I see no sense in running more than what it will run with no pre-ignition. My saws all run well with 89 octane non liquor fuel. I have run some 92 octane non ethanol and they run well on that with a bit of a carb tweek. I had to use some 87 with corn likker stuff once and will never use it again in my saws. My MS440 did not like it at all, low power, erratic idle and dying. Oddly the Poulan 2000 did not mind it.

 

[BobUrban]

You may have received information overload and are now "over thinking" what you may have been overthinking in the first place. Do yourself a favor and get 4 chains. Not a huge investment when you can buy two for 1.5 much of the time at a stihl dealer. Just swap chains when one gets funked out and roll on. Sharpen at your leisure some other time. Unless you are really cutting dirty wood you should not be dulling a good sharp chain so often. That or you are running aground a lot?? My 036 with a full chiz will cut for a lot longer than a tank or two of gas in even suspect wood w/o slowing down. My guess is your rakers have been neglected. Take 3-5 stokes off those(or more depending on the chain) before you go to the teeth next sharpening and see if she don't eat like you want her to.

 

[Highbeam]

I have two chains that I believe are both semi chisel. I cut softwood and use a HF grinder to sharpen. One chain is the OEM safety full comp stihl chain and the other is a non-safety stihl skip tooth chain. I have cut about 40 cords with only these two chains. Switching back and forth as I dull them. NO hand filing. I love love love how fast it is to sharpen the skip tooth chain and have NOT noticed slower cutting vs. full comp.

If you go to the stihl shop beware of some well intentioned idiot selling you safety chain. It cuts very well but adjusting the rakers is a pain.

I have a 20" bar on an MS290 and in our big softwood I have often been limited by power. I will soon need new chains and I will be buying non safety, semi chisel, skip tooth chain of whatever brand. That's what I recommend you tell the chain seller dude. Don't try and learn the chain brand's code, just ask for what you want.

I am not a saw racer guy, just a firewood cutter. Your 362 will cut great with full comp or skip, you will save time sharpening and probably have a sharper chain more often as a result of using skip.

 

[7acres]

I am not a saw racer guy, just a firewood cutter.

Haha! Yeah, it's those saw racers that have me thinking I need Klotz octane boost. I ran a tank of boosted gas this weekend. Wasn't impressed. Back to 87 octane non-ethanol.

And I agree with your point about just telling the dealer what I want and not letting them corner me into a safety chain.

 

[7acres]

Chains are not a huge investment. Buy one (skip tooth). Try one. Prove me wrong. I will send you a full comp replacement if you are disappointed.




Bingo

Whatever I may give up in cutting speed (a negligible difference as far as I can tell) I gain back in spades come filing time.

Bigg_Redd, you win man. I bought both. Used both. Several trees each. You are exactly right. The cutting speed of a skip tooth is barely noticeable if any at all really. I LOVE my skip tooth chain. I don't know what it would take for me to put the RS full comp back on.

Was flush cutting stumps this weekend (neighbor lets me take trees on his woodlot if I flush cut the stumps too). There always seems to be an ant hill on one side of the stump. I cut through the ant hill last. Nothing beats pounding in the stump vice taking a breather while sharpening and knocking out the stump vice 8 minutes later with a sharp chain.

But even for non-dirty timber the skip tooth doesn't disappoint. I thought it was interesting that the lack of another cutter every other didn't seem to affect cut speed. The shavings are 4x as long as full comp chips. So it's not like it's cutting half as much. The whole cutting surface is fully engaged just like it would be on a full comp.

Here's a photo of the skip tooth shavings:


The skip tooth chain definitely is something to consider taking a chance on. I'm glad I did.

 

[zzr7ky]

Stihl RS if you have plenty of cash. Oregon LGX is also great and costs me less.

 

[TMonter]

Bigg_Redd, you win man. I bought both. Used both. Several trees each. You are exactly right. The cutting speed of a skip tooth is barely noticeable if any at all really. I LOVE my skip tooth chain. I don't know what it would take for me to put the RS full comp back on.

Was flush cutting stumps this weekend (neighbor lets me take trees on his woodlot if I flush cut the stumps too). There always seems to be an ant hill on one side of the stump. I cut through the ant hill last. Nothing beats pounding in the stump vice taking a breather while sharpening and knocking out the stump vice 8 minutes later with a sharp chain.

But even for non-dirty timber the skip tooth doesn't disappoint. I thought it was interesting that the lack of another cutter every other didn't seem to affect cut speed. The shavings are 4x as long as full comp chips. So it's not like it's cutting half as much. The whole cutting surface is fully engaged just like it would be on a full comp.

Here's a photo of the skip tooth shavings:
View attachment 141837

The skip tooth chain definitely is something to consider taking a chance on. I'm glad I did.

I have noticed that optimum raker depth is a bit different for skip versus full comp. I use mostly skip here out west with our softwoods.

 

[7acres]

I have noticed that optimum raker depth is a bit different for skip versus full comp. I use mostly skip here out west with our softwoods.

Would you say skip tooth chains run better with a higher or lower raker than what you'd typically want for full comp? I've got a guess but I'll wait to hear your experience first.

 

[TMonter]

Would you say skip tooth chains run better with a higher or lower raker than what you'd typically want for full comp? I've got a guess but I'll wait to hear your experience first.

I usually file my rakers lower on skip than on full comp.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Bigg_Redd, you win man. I bought both. Used both. Several trees each. You are exactly right. The cutting speed of a skip tooth is barely noticeable if any at all really. I LOVE my skip tooth chain. I don't know what it would take for me to put the RS full comp back on.

Was flush cutting stumps this weekend (neighbor lets me take trees on his woodlot if I flush cut the stumps too). There always seems to be an ant hill on one side of the stump. I cut through the ant hill last. Nothing beats pounding in the stump vice taking a breather while sharpening and knocking out the stump vice 8 minutes later with a sharp chain.

But even for non-dirty timber the skip tooth doesn't disappoint. I thought it was interesting that the lack of another cutter every other didn't seem to affect cut speed. The shavings are 4x as long as full comp chips. So it's not like it's cutting half as much. The whole cutting surface is fully engaged just like it would be on a full comp.

Here's a photo of the skip tooth shavings:
View attachment 141837

The skip tooth chain definitely is something to consider taking a chance on. I'm glad I did.

I am glad to help. Seems to me there's no downside whatsoever to skip tooth. I think more people would hand file and hand file more better if they had half the teeth.

 

[CTYank]

About the full-chisel getting dull. I've found that it dulls far faster than semi-chisel in CLEAN wood, too. When it goes dull, it's like someone hit a switch. That transition happens much more slowly with semi-chisel.

What works best for me in general: quick touch with file in Granberg guide every second tankful, maybe a stroke or two per tooth. No big production of 30 minutes, maybe a 10 minute breather. Filing a chain thusly, a chain lasts a verrrrrrrry long time, such that the depth gauges wear down at a rate to match the tooth drop, and I almost never have to touch the depth gauges. Of course, that file guide can be used for precision setting of depth gauges. File longevity with it is excellent, also.

Relatively to filing with that guide, any grinder will remove metal much more aggressively, so I use it on my chains only when they find debris. Mainly I use my grinder on buds' chains that they use sometimes as ditch-witches. No matter the grinder, a quick kiss with a file will make a chain sharper. Free-hand filing is inconsistent enough to require grinding every fourth or fifth filing, IMHO.

Skip-tooth chain, I've only used to good effect with a saw that doesn't make lots of power, like the Husqy 455r I had, with a 20" bar. Made it easier to keep the revs up in big wood..

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Skip-tooth chain, I've only used to good effect with a saw that doesn't make lots of power, like the Husqy 455r I had, with a 20" bar. Made it easier to keep the revs up in big wood..

My experience has not born this out. Skip tooth vs full comp on my 290 = no noticeable difference in cutting speed.

 

[Poindexter]

One thing I didn't see mentioned was raker height or raker depth depending on your perspective. If the OP has been keeping his teeth sharp and running the same one chain a good long time he might be pleasantly suprised if we to file his rakers down a little bit. Just a thought.

 

[smokedragon]

he might be pleasantly suprised if we to file his rakers down a little bit. Just a thought.

If you keep those depth gages right, it makes as much (or more sometimes) difference as sharp vs. dull chain.

About the full-chisel getting dull. I've found that it dulls far faster than semi-chisel in CLEAN wood, too. When it goes dull, it's like someone hit a switch.

That is why I like full chisel chain. It tells me it is time to sharpen. With semi-chisel, you keep cutting with a 'sort of' sharp chain.

My $0.02