Why "do or did" you have a cat stove but now you "want or have" a NON-cat?

[53flyer]

I know that to many cat owners that's crazy talk...

I'm curious because I've already read a few posts by people who have non-cat stoves but would "consider" or have actually bought a cat for their next purchase so I’d like to know who here is in the opposite camp and would either "consider" going to a non cat or have already made such a move and why. Thanks.

 

[SolarAndWood]

My old stoves were cast iron cats that gave me heartburn. I had sworn off cat stoves but found my way back because I wanted a big firebox I could burn low.

 

[grommal]

Already made the switch from a 1986 vintage VC Defiant Encore cat to a new Jotul Oslo F500 non-cat last spring. But, the decision was not really one of cat or non-cat. After the VC, I definitely didn't want another stove with a separate rear chamber where secondary combustion happens, whether that was done via cat or not. So that (and general quality control issues) left out the new VC cats, as well as the whole set of Everburn-type stoves, regardless of manufacturer.

Wife did not really want a steel stove for the looks, plus our thimble out to the brick chimney was low enough to the hearth floor (stupid mason!) that it basically ruled out all the steel stoves we investigated anyway (unless I sawed off the legs). So, Blaze King was out.

In our climate, we do a lot of night-only fires in the shoulder season. So, I really didn't want the thermal inertia of soapstone. So, Woodstock was out, though their incredibly loyal following makes me wonder if that pale soapstone gives off some kind of addictive fumes!

That pretty much left us with cast iron and secondary burn tubes. We made our choice from there, and love our Oslo so far.

Nothing against cats per se. I like the cat design of the Woodstock units, and I don't think it would have the same finicky personality that our old VC had, but soapstone was not ideal for our application. Sure, you have to replace the combustor after several years of use, but that's not that big a deal. It was just that all the other factors lined up so that there were basically no cats left to fill the bill.

 

[heatwise]

i hope i qualify to answer this one. we bought our cat stove 10 years ago for our living room. this year we bought a non cat. they're are a few reasons we switched. the main reason was fan noise. i have been in a room with an almost identical stove/blower set up and could barely hear fan noise. we have too many reflective surfaces , hardwood floors etc. the issue of being without power is a concern and upping the heat output was needed. we have replaced our cat 3 times over 10 years. i guess this is routine . i like the cat concept and could tell when it was engaged . I'm hoping our new stove with its combustion tubes functions as well. they're are so many great stoves on the market finding the right one for us didn't come the first time. pete

 

[Highbeam]

Be careful to note which cat stove people are leaving at the curb. The VC stove line is junk so that is a factor in people ditching the technology. There are only a few cat stove manufacturers out there. Have you ever seen anyone give up a woodstock or blaze king and buy a Lopi, country, quad? Now that would tell you something.

 

[Slow1]

i hope i qualify to answer this one. we bought our cat stove 10 years ago for our living room. this year we bought a non cat. they're are a few reasons we switched. the main reason was fan noise.

I'm not getting the "Cat = fan noise" connection. Do most cat stoves require a fan? I didn't realize that any of them did...

 

[Wet1]

Be careful to note which cat stove people are leaving at the curb. The VC stove line is junk so that is a factor in people ditching the technology. There are only a few cat stove manufacturers out there. Have you ever seen anyone give up a woodstock or blaze king and buy a Lopi, country, quad? Now that would tell you something.

+1

When I noticed this thread, I expected it to be littered with cat bashing comments from previous VC cat owners... Good luck trying to find a BK or WS owner that's willing to give up their stove in favor of a non-cat!

 

[savageactor7]

Just riffing on the OP we knew about CAT stoves and have to concede they may be superior to plate steel but still they're not for us. Too often I'll fall asleep by the stove esp when coming in from the cold so I need a stove I can load... period end of story.

As far as waiting for this temp to occur so I can engage that lever...meh not for us. No matter how cold it is I'll go out to the mailbox in T shirt and shorts...and our stove is undersized for our Sq footage.

 

[Fsappo]

I have always liked not cat stoves just because my burning season is also my busy season. I like to be able to just start a fire and forget it and not worry about taking the stove apart, monitering temps, etc. I also had most of my experience with the VC cat stoves from back in the late 80s early 90s which had a terrible design and were hard to work on. I am in the process of looking into a Blaze King Dealership, which may be hard because they told me they try to keep 100 miles between dealers. I would like to try out one of these stoves. If it burned longer (I'm not worried about cleaner, my Enerzone wont need a chimney cleaning for 5 years or so) that would be interesting. The idea of a 15-20 hour burn, with convection heat has me curious.

 

[Wet1]

Franks,

I can tell you without question the BK will break 20 hours without any problem. After using one, it won't take long for you to become a believer! The stuff about taking things apart (taking the cat out and clean it once or twice a year is a very simple and quick job) and monitoring temps (which you have to do to dampen down a non-cat anyway) is completely a non-issue IMO. But yes, you do have to throw a bypass lever when reloading.

Regarding the 100 mile thing, I'll just say good luck dealing with that greedy distributor known as Fireside...

 

[Rockey]

i the main reason was fan noise.

Thats like saying you'll only buy 4 door cars in the future because the last 2 door you owned had a squeeky window.

 

[Fsappo]

Franks,

I can tell you without question the BK will break 20 hours without any problem. After using one, it won't take long for you to become a believer! The stuff about taking things apart (taking the cat out and clean it once or twice a year is a very simple and quick job) and monitoring temps (which you have to do to dampen down a non-cat anyway) is completely a non-issue IMO. But yes, you do have to throw a bypass lever when reloading.

Regarding the 100 mile thing, I'll just say good luck dealing with that greedy distributor known as Fireside...

I know the folks at Fireside pretty well. As far as greed goes, what could they gain by NOT having another dealer? If they were greedy, wouldn't they want more exposure for their products? Personally, I like Fireside. Lots of stuff in their books, decent pricing and when I fax the PO, the stuff shows up fast.

 

[Wet1]

Only BK dealers east of the river have to deal with Fireside, all others go directly through BK. Dealer cost on BK products purchased through Fireside is well over what many west coast BK dealers sell their stoves for to the general public... this is something BK and Fireside really should get straightened out. Regarding adding another dealer within the 100 miles, how would you feel if you were the established BK dealer in your neck of the woods with the agreement through Fireside that no others would be added within 100 miles, then some guy down the road decided they were going to start selling BK products (through the one and only distributor which you had the agreement with)?

 

[Fsappo]

It makes sense that the dealer cost would go up when going thru distribution instead of direct. I can also see them wanting a local distribution point for the east cost. What would make better sense would be for BK to just have a regional warehouse to ship from out east. Then they would not have to pay a middle man.

As far as the 100 mile thing goes...I was thrilled to death when they informed me that they would need to check with the other dealers first. I am a fan of protected territories and I am impressed that Fireside wasnt so greedy that they would just jump at the chance to open a new dealer. It showed integrity. Intengraty? Neither looks right, anyhow, this is exactly the reason I try to run my business in a way that earns respect from my competitors instead of them viewing us as an enemy.

 

[Highbeam]

It's one thing for the distributor to add a fee which is fair and includes their expenses plus a normal profit. This middle man cut would be lower than a dealer's markup since as we know the dealer has to employee salesmen, provide service, overhead, etc. I expect the dealer's markup would be much higher than this distributor. What we have here is the distributor marking the stove up much higher than dealers do and then when the dealer gets it they add a markup on top of that to rightly cover their expenses plus profit.

The distributor's responsibilities are limited and so should be his markup.

 

[SolarAndWood]

The biggest loser here is BK. Dealers will find a substitute product. Customers will do the same while a few will find a way to get one across the Mississippi or St. Lawrence and avoid the ridiculous markup. My local dealer doesn't even have one on display.

 

[53flyer]

Only BK dealers east of the river have to deal with Fireside, all others go directly through BK. Dealer cost on BK products purchased through Fireside is well over what many west coast BK dealers sell their stoves for to the general public... this is something BK and Fireside really should get straightened out.

So are we saying that on the E coast a basic Princess insert would be much more than $2595?

 

[mellow]

I was quoted $3600 for a basic princess insert. Way to much, but I think we have gone off topic.

I had a cat stove and would have stuck with it or another cat stove but curiosity got the best of me and I had to try the pipes, so far I have not been impressed, ohh and getting the deal I got helped to. I am going to try it out this winter and see if I "warm" up to it, but we will see.

 

[Wet1]

I was quoted $3600 for a basic princess insert. Way to much, but I think we have gone off topic.

That sounds like it's more inline with typical east coast pricing on BK products. By contrast, I picked one up out of WA for a forum member on the east coast for somewhere around $2k with surround and shipping... Gotta love the east coast Fireside markup!

 

[Highbeam]

And to be clear, both stoves were purchased from dealers that each made themselves a profit and both were shipped to the east so the distributor (crook) is adding 1600$ to a 2000$ stove because you have no choice but to buy from him. That's why an earlier post called them greedy.

 

[semipro]

I've used 2 cat stoves previously and recently started using a Jotul Oslo non-cat. Why? Liked the look of the Jotul, needed the heat output and it was one of the few stoves that would fit in our fireplace install so mainly a function of what would work for our situation. I definitely miss how clean the cats burned compared to this one, and at all burn rates. Seems the Oslo only burns clean when everything is just right. With the previous cat, I just got it up to temp, closed the bypass, and didn't worry about the stove again until it needed a reload.

 

[bfunk13]

I have only burned my BK cat so i really cant say.
I dont know what the big deal is about cat stoves.
Sure it takes 15 minutes to get up to temp, close the bypass set your air and done.
I think i would be a bit nervous lighting ANY stove without giving it 15 minutes to make sure its
burning and working correctly before i tore out of the house.
I wouldn't trade my BK for any other stove. It will run pretty much 24/7 from now till April.
If i was just having fires at night twice a week with my glass of wine, i suppose the extra work of the cat would
be an issue. I think the burn times and low emissions are well worth flipping a handle a few times a day.

My 2 Cents

Brad

 

[heatwise]

the fan noise i refer to was from our buck model 20, i lived with it, it was noisy. pete

 

[Patapsco Mike]

I have used them all. Starting with non EPA, going to an EPA non-cat, then a VC Dutchwest cat, then an Olympic non-cat, and now to my Blaze King cat. I will say this, one nice thing about a cat stove is that you know when the cat is working- as the cat thermometer leaves no doubt. With a non-cat, those lovely burn tube flames don't last long, at best half of the burn time (in my two EPA non-cats), and after that you kind of wonder if the secondary burning is doing much. Maybe it is, who knows...

And having been back and forth very recently, the difference in ease-of-use of a cat vs. non-cat is trivial. With both you end up spending some time getting any new load to light off before either dialing down the air or engaging the cat.

I loved my Olympic in a lot of ways. It was a great stove and I will miss some things about it. From what I've seen of the BK so far, I may love it even more. Just saying that if you do your homework with regard to wood and chimney issues, you are likely to be very happy with any number of stoves of both cat and non-cat design. There are lots of really nice stoves out there. It's a win-win, and I think many of us end up switching just to get to the greener grass on the other side of the fence...

 

[weatherguy]

After doing a lot of reading on this site I thought non cat was the way to go. What got me thinking twice was my sister moved to Maine and bought a house with a dutchwest cat stove. Neither her or I have ever burned wood before and she got the han g of her DW with ease, she's heating almost 2000 s,f, (open floor plan) no problem and she loves it. Long story short I got a BK Princess. Nothing to report as the damn rain keeps delaying my install.