When is small too small? Morso 1410

[stathouse]

Hi all. I searched the forums for more info on the Morso 1410 before I decided to post; I appologise in advance if this is a topic that has been covered already, and maybe you could direct me to the thread in that case...

I just ordered the Morso 1410 for a cabin situated at 4000 ft in the Sierra foothills of California. We get some snow, doesn't stay on the ground long most times and I think the winters would be considered mild compared to where some of the posters are writing from! Currently the cabin has single-paned windows and is poorly insulated. 2-storey, around 1000 sq. feet. I plan to use the stove in the living area, less than 300 sq. feet with 8 ft. ceilings. This is not a closed room; it connects at one end to the kitchen area, also less than 300 sq. feet which will have its own gas stove.

Now for the question: is this Morso too small? I know the specs say it will work, but I want to hear from people who have experience with small wood stoves. From this forum, I have heard things about the smallness of the fire box and having to tend it more rather than larger boxes where larger fuel can be used. Will this just be a frustrating novelty? I probably change my order to the other Moros that I looked at, the 2110 which is 2x the size and 2x the price!

Thanks for any advise!

KB

 

[nshif]

Stat, I live in the Sierras as well just a bit higher then you. Is this just a weekend cabin or do you live there? I dont know where in the Sierras you are located but here near Hiway 88 we get a fair amount of snow and more importantly it gets COLD, like low 20s or teens on occasion.
If you dont mind tending the stove in the middle of the night then that stove will probably work but if you live there all the time Id go bigger. Im building a 2000 sq ft house, very well insulated and sealed and Im putting in a Quadrafire 4300 based on my last 3 winters here ( granted living in a moterhome and well house). Im not saying you need something that big but Id go bigger if its an option.

 

[nshif]

PS
Welcome to the Forum, Lots of good and knowlagble people here. Im sure any question you have can be answered.

 

[Highbeam]

"Morsø 1410 is a small universal cast-iron stove that can be used with different types of fuel: wood, briquettes, coal or energy coke."

Cool. The max log size is 12" though. It is a nice and cute heater with character but I would get a larger one if for no other reason than to burn standard sized wood of 16-18" These cast iron stoves are starting to grow on me, they seem more substantial than the sheet metal convection heaters.

Bring your bag of Kingsfords and you're set.

 

[stathouse]

nshif, we are off Hwy 4, Arnold, CA. I think where you are is definately much colder. This is a part-time vaction home only. The tending in the middle of the night is just not going to happen...I'm hoping on just some live coles to get re-started easily in the am.

Highbeam, the Morso 1410 that is available for California is not the multi fuel version, unfortunately...having more options would be a definite bonus.

KB

 

[nshif]

Stat,
Just down the road, but I still dont think youll get an all night burn from that small of a stove. Especially in a poorly insulated cabin. Forget the alternative fuels we cant get half of them and Briquets would probably be the equivelent of 500$. Oak cordwood ( currently at an avg of 225 a cord ) would be much cheaper.

 

[elkimmeg]

Bar none, the Intrepid II is the best small fire box heater available.. It will win all comparisons hands down. This might explain why its model production run has elaspesed 20 plus years.

It also takes 16" logs thermoatically controled and the cleanest, most effecient wood stove in its class

 

[Gooserider]

One of the things I point out is that if you do a search on the forums for stove size complaints, you will find that "too small" out numbers "too big" by about 20 to 1. Thus I almost always advise folks to go bigger...

As others have mentioned the biggest problem with a small stove is that it will NOT get you through the night. Also if you are going to be buying your wood, keep in mind that nearly all wood guys sell wood that is in the 16-20" range, billed as 18" - unless you want to be recutting your wood (which makes for LOTS of waste), I wouldn't want a stove that I couldn't get a 20" split into. Also what kind of wood is your typical supply - I don't know about your area, but a lot of the western states have to burn softwoods, which give even shorter burn times.

If you are going to be processing your own wood then the length is less of an issue since you can cut to the size you need - and the shorter the round the easier it will be to split, but the more splitting you will need to do in order to get a cord...

The VC Intrepid is a nice stove, but it won't quite get through the night, and is still on the small size for the wood it will take. A stove like the VC Encore gets into the 2 cubic foot firebox size, which is what most folks consider the minimum size for an overnight burner, and it takes up to 20" rounds, though 18" is preferred. I don't want to sound like a VC salesman, but I think they make good reference stoves - and I would say a 2 cu ft firebox that can take 18-20" splits is what I'd consider the minimum if you want primary heat. The smaller stoves I consider good for supplemental heat or "look at the fire" type burners.

Gooserider

 

[wg_bent]

I have to agree with Goose here. I think the 1410 as a coal heater would work, but not a wood heater. I think it would be good to suppliment another heater. I was thinking of one for my 400 sqft family room, but would more likely go with a Intrepid or Lopi Answer. You might also look at the Jotul 602. It takes 16" logs. Lot's of small stoves that would do the trick out there. Englander, Lopi, Osburn, Pacific Energy, Hearthstone, as well as other Morso's You can get mutli-fuel Esse stoves from Obadiah's, but they are only EPA rated to be coal stoves.

 

[elkimmeg]

Judging from 2 years of opperations here is what I come up with as realistic expectations of my intrepid II

To qualify mine it 1986 model not new but particially rebuilt with a new after market cat combustor I wish I had a newer on to compare it with.

My familly room has 16' high ceilings 4 skylights 8 windows and an open stair case from the lower level about 400 sq fto but vollume area much more


Brought up to temps and fire established fully loaded it will and usually burns 6 hours of productive heat using good seasoned hardwood mostly oak
( productive heat over 400 degrees stove temps)

What is really the tell take info is the actual room thermo readings at zerro out the room is probably 70- 72 degrees stove top 550 when I awake the room drops to 66
till I rake the coals add smaller splits and start the process again possibly some kindlling the stove top usually reads about 200 to 250 .

Naturally if living in a warmer climate one may awake to 68 or sttart at a higher temp. Even the coldest windy night here in New England ,it has keep up and raised the temps

I had 2 other stove in the past installed here a plate steel stove that did heat well as long as I keep feeding it a much larger stove that got out preformed buy the Intrepid

Had another Jotul box type that never got the job done too small.. My first impression after installing the Intrepid was the damn thing looked to small.

It would never heat this room and I never ran a cat ctove before. The stove out preformed the non cat Resolute accclaim on my main level. This is an amazing stove
it produces like the little engine that could. Is it an all nighter No. But here on the hearth what constitutes all night is subject to debate.

Realistically it needs to be loaded every 6 hours, which is probably 2 hours longer than simmilar stoves in this firebox size range.

 

[Corie]

Its tiny, but certainly capable of heating that cabin. It probably means you'll be getting up to feed it during the night at least once, so just make sure someone has a few BIG glasses of water or beer before bed and you know they'll be up in the middle of the night and can tend to the fire. That's the way we usually play at the hunting cabin. Everyone tends to drink before bed so at least of or two firebugs will be up during the night and can toss a few logs in the old fisher and get her ripping again. Since its a cabin though, chances are if you're spending time there, you'll be at the cabin, or someone will. I personally like the little woodstoves, both as far as looks go and because I think its fun to tend it every couple hours. I know some will disagree, but I think you'll be just fine with that stove. Just get used to cutting your wood into smaller pieces, which again is no big deal IMO. With some of the smaller firebox woodstoves, even though they'll take an 18" log east-west, I'd rather cut 10 inch pieces and burn north-south, so cutting short is NBD.

 

[stathouse]

...Realistically it needs to be loaded every 6 hours, which is probably 2 hours longer than simmilar stoves in this firebox size range.

I would be afraid of a larger stove because of the increased BTU output, unless of course it is possible to throttle back a larger stove to about 20,000 BTU per hour for an eight hour run and still burn clean.

I have minor concerns about overheating; I'm counting on the heat camping out in the upstairs bedrooms. The dealer's opinion was that he thought burning the 1410 at near its capacity was better than burning the next larger model, the 2110 at a lesser capacity. He looked up some stats and the manufacturer stated that the 2110 could safely be used at 50% of its capacity...it is rated at 25,000 btu/hr max.

We burn mostly pine and cedar with some hard stuff, a bit of oak, a bit of manzanita, so creosote build-up is a definate concern.

I am the most concerned about the 12" fuel cuts. Do I really want to mess with my wood that much? I will be able to cut my own to size in the future but I currently have quite a bit that I need to use up.

KB

 

[stathouse]

oops, misprinted... the 2110 is rated at 42,000 btu/hr.

the smaller, 1410 is 25,000

 

[Corie]

Buy a cheapie radial arm saw and use that to rip your current logs in half. Much easier and quicker than trying to use the chainsaw.

 

[wg_bent]

...Realistically it needs to be loaded every 6 hours, which is probably 2 hours longer than simmilar stoves in this firebox size range.

I would be afraid of a larger stove because of the increased BTU output, unless of course it is possible to throttle back a larger stove to about 20,000 BTU per hour for an eight hour run and still burn clean.

I have minor concerns about overheating; I'm counting on the heat camping out in the upstairs bedrooms. The dealer's opinion was that he thought burning the 1410 at near its capacity was better than burning the next larger model, the 2110 at a lesser capacity. He looked up some stats and the manufacturer stated that the 2110 could safely be used at 50% of its capacity...it is rated at 25,000 btu/hr max.

We burn mostly pine and cedar with some hard stuff, a bit of oak, a bit of manzanita, so creosote build-up is a definate concern.

I am the most concerned about the 12" fuel cuts. Do I really want to mess with my wood that much? I will be able to cut my own to size in the future but I currently have quite a bit that I need to use up.

KB

Burn Pine hot and creosote isn't much of an issue. There's a few folks around here who burn nothing but pine.

 

[Gooserider]

Buy a cheapie radial arm saw and use that to rip your current logs in half. Much easier and quicker than trying to use the chainsaw.

As one that just went through having to recut a pile, I would MAJORLY disagree with that Corie - I tried with the radial arm saw and it was a pain and more than a little bit scary. I was regularly jamming the blade and having to do much fiddling to make it work. At best I was probably doing about 1 minute / split. The table saw wasn't much better. What I ended up doing which I found to be MUCH faster and more efficient was to build a frame out of 2 x 4's (salvaged from pallets) that was the width of my saw bar, and the depth of my desired cut. I would stack a bunch of splits in the box and then run the chainsaw down the front of the box - this let me cut 20-30 splits at a time, and maybe do a batch every 5-10 minutes, including restacking the cut stuff.

Gooserider

 

[Corie]

Well there ya go Goose. I've never tried it your way, but it sounds like it would be quicker and probably safer than the radial arm saw. I actually meant to write compound miter saw, but nonetheless your method sounds really really slick.

I might just whip one of those up since I'll be burning our 13NC stove this year and it only takes a 10" log north to south.

 

[Gooserider]

Well there ya go Goose. I've never tried it your way, but it sounds like it would be quicker and probably safer than the radial arm saw. I actually meant to write compound miter saw, but nonetheless your method sounds really really slick.

I might just whip one of those up since I'll be burning our 13NC stove this year and it only takes a 10" log north to south.

True, a chop saw or compound miter would be safer than a radial arm, but IMHO still less efficient. One of the problems with a rotary saw is the size you split to - Often it will be bigger than the saw's capacity, or at least my wood is. The other big problem is that firewood tends to be irregular in shape, which makes keeping it still in the saw is a bit of a problem sometimes.

With my "box" setup, the only potential problem is the splits moving a bit as you are cutting, mostly I solve that by doing "log tetris" to pack them in as tightly as I can so they CAN'T move much... Also if the splits are tapered end to end, you have to alternate the splits to keep the top of the stack fairly even, otherwise as the logs tilt you start to loose your accuracy on the cut length.

I will have to take some pictures of my setup, although it may take a while as I've done my major recutting, all that I do now is let it fill up with my "QA Rejects" from the normal splitting - The new stove is a bit fussier in this regard than the smoke dragon was.

Gooserider

 

[stathouse]

Lot's of interesting perspectives to mull over here! Thanks for responding.

I was at the cabin this weekend and mapped out my ideal placement for the new stove and am convinced that the size of the small size of the Morso 1410 is ideal. It has very tight clearances to combustibles and I don't have that many choices of where to place it, so a small footprint is necessary.

I was thinking about some kind of holder to wedge the too long splits into so I can chain saw them down to size, but Gooseriders idea of cutting multiple splits at a time is a great idea! I will have to experiment with this.

When I am up and burning I will post a few pics and let everyone know how the little stove handles.

KB

 

[nshif]

Stat
Sounds like a good plan. Good stove and well made. It should keep that cabin warm in the worst of our waether. The only draw back I see is the wood size but in time you can learn to live with that.
When your up this way PM me if youd like and maybe we can get togather for a cold one sometime.

 

[rjustice4]

stathouse, I was looking at the same stoves (the 1410 and the 2110), and live in Arnold year round! have you found a local dealer, not sure if the one in Jackson still exists....?

For everyone else here, I'm looking for a stove for my workshop/office. The shop is 31' deep by 19' wide with an 11' ceiling, a concrete floor, and an uninsulated steel roll up door. The office is attached to the back of the shop, and is 9' deep by 19' wide with an 11' ceiling. The workshop/office is equipped with propane fired forced air which is costing a lot to heat. I keep the roll up door shut in the winter. I have about 10 cords of pine and cedar logs (yet to be quartered and split, waiting for stove dimensions), which should last the next few years, I'm thinking...

The Morso seems to be well built - and if it works out, I might buy one for the house.

Any other suggestions are welcome (in terms of stove recommendations, etc...)

Thanks, and my compliments on a great forum...

Bob

p.s. also about to buy a Sthil to cut up that pile, any suggestions there are welcome...

 

[Gooserider]

stathouse, I was looking at the same stoves (the 1410 and the 2110), and live in Arnold year round! have you found a local dealer, not sure if the one in Jackson still exists....?

For everyone else here, I'm looking for a stove for my workshop/office. The shop is 31' deep by 19' wide with an 11' ceiling, a concrete floor, and an uninsulated steel roll up door. The office is attached to the back of the shop, and is 9' deep by 19' wide with an 11' ceiling. The workshop/office is equipped with propane fired forced air which is costing a lot to heat. I keep the roll up door shut in the winter. I have about 10 cords of pine and cedar logs (yet to be quartered and split, waiting for stove dimensions), which should last the next few years, I'm thinking...

The Morso seems to be well built - and if it works out, I might buy one for the house.

Any other suggestions are welcome (in terms of stove recommendations, etc...)

Thanks, and my compliments on a great forum...

Bob

p.s. also about to buy a Sthil to cut up that pile, any suggestions there are welcome...

Well one of the first things I'd suggest is to start a new thread rather than trying to tack an extension onto this one, as I think you'd get better visibility. For the chainsaw, check out the "Gear" area, lots of discussion there.

As to your shop, I'm assuming looks aren't a big issue, but budget might be? Your area is fairly small at about ~800 sq.ft., but with the high ceiling and poor insulation, I would suggest looking at a much larger stove, probably an Englander, or if you are doing wood working it might be worth considering a Sedore multifuel that can help get rid of your sawdust and wood scraps. I would also figure on putting in a few ceiling fans to push the air back down to the floor, and look at if there is anything you could do to insulate that rollup door. I've seen folks attach foamboard panels to the insides of the door, or I have seen a flexible fabric covered fiberglass insulation that comes in big sheets that could be glued over the entire door. Almost anything would help, as all that door is doing for you now is blocking the wind.

Also remember that a woodstove in a shop is potentially hazardous if you ever do work that involves making combustible fumes - i.e. if you use stuff that says "requires adequate ventilation" - check your local codes, they may consider your shop to be a "garage" in which case a fuel burning stove is PROHIBITED - at the very least plan to put the stove so that the firebox is well elevated, and try to plan on an outside air feed for it.

Gooserider

 

[rjustice4]

Thanks for the input, Gooserider.

I'll start a new thread, as you've suggested. Main reason for tagging onto this one is to contact Stathouse, he appears to be a neighbor...

The main part of the shop is used as a part time photo studio, while the smaller office area is used as an office full time. No flamable fluids are used in the shop area - and thanks for the heads up about local codes, I'll check on those.

I was thinking of putting a curtain over the door, so it can still be opened when necessary. And am planning on using the forced air (with propane heat turned off) to circulate the air through the shop and adjoining office.

Thanks for the tip on Englander, I'll check those out. Are they comparable in quality to Morso?

Bob

 

[Gooserider]

Don't know if I would make a direct quality comparison, but both Morso and Englander are good stoves, though they tend to be differently oriented in their marketing. Englander makes steel plate stoves, as opposed to cast iron, and tends to target the "budget" market - as such they sell through the big box stores like Home Despot and Lowes, along with a lot of the other hardware store and lumberyard chains. They tend to be a bit plainer looking, however their build quality is excellent, and their pricing is usually considered to be "the most BTU's for the buck"

They are quite active on the forum, and I have no hesitation in reccomending them for a lot of applications. Only problem with them from my own situation is that their stoves are currently all Top Vent, and my setup requires a rear vent - however if I was in a different situation they would definitely make my short list.

Gooserider

 

[stathouse]

Just an update on my project. Pic to come later after install.

I have the stove (Moros 1410). I won't go into how disappointed I was with the service I received from the place I bought it; suffice to say I won't be doing business with them again. I have positioned it in the room where I would like it to be. My install guy noticed that the back plate had instructions on it which stated a 16" clearance from combustibles from the back wall. The paper literature that came with it states that stove should be 16" from combustibles at rear (in my case the wall). The paper literature that comes with it states 8" from combustibles at rear. So, I called the dealer and they clarified that 8" can be used if you install double wall pipe connector.

At this point I don't really trust the dealer on anything. Has anyone installed these European stoves here in the US with this little clearance? One of my reasons for choosing this model was its ability to fit into a small space and not have any masonry behind it. My walls are solid wood T&G;paneling, btw.

On another note, I am really excited about the single slab of slate I got from a landscaping company that I am going to use under the stove as my floor protection; very natural, rough shape and only $40! Weighs about 160 lbs.

kb