What we can we learn from a cold snap?

[Poindexter]

Looking at my wood pile, I see I have not yet burned 2 cords of wood this season. Typically on New Years Day I am deep into my fourth cord and trying to estimate when in March or April I am going to run out of dry wood.

Unseasonably warm weather here means we probably have a Polar Vortex going in the lower 48. That means there will be several pictures, posts and threads by folks who are pushing their stoves harder than ever, just like the winter of 13/14 when we last had a significant polar vortex going on.

1. This is a really really good time to find out where your stove is getting air from. Oh you have an OAK, your general contractor was Jesus Christ, the insulation sub was Saint Peter, the vapor barrier sub was Saint Mark and your wood stove and chimney were installed by Saint Anthony? Happy for you. The rest of us, this is time to hold your hand on or near every break in your insulation envelope.

Every single electrical receptacle on an outside wall. Every single light switch. Every single window, all the way around. Same for the doors. Your stove is running fine, it is getting air from somewhere... but where. When you are really flogging the stove - like now- where "else" have you got air leaks in your envelope that you don't otherwise notice?

1a: Go outdoors and visually inspect all your trim. Windows, doors, outside electrical receptacles, the hole for the water spigot, all of it. Where on the exterior do you see frost formation? That's where your leaks are. I have three: 2 bathroom vent fans and one clothes dryer outlet.

I have 6 "other" tabs open. I think for all of these it has been safe to say the total package has been running fine for 154 of the last 156 weeks. Many of these may not be economical to upgrade since they run so well the vast majority of the time and fixing them for current conditions may make them operate not so well under normal or average conditions.

I am not trying to call anyone out for ridicule. I am just observing when the weather gets more colder some of the corners we have cut become more problematic.

 

[Poindexter]

Here is one I think of as normal...see avatar

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...t-2-everything-bk.164477/page-47#post-2226360

I will say I look for 8-10k active hours out of my combustors when I run mine this hard routinely. I have read about several folks here looking for 12k even 16k active hours. That's great. I only have the one data point, but replacing the combustor every 8-10k active hours is much cheaper than replacing my spruce fired BTUs with oil.

Without the polar vortex I would estimate my combustor glows like that 10-12 hours daily for about 6 weeks or so.

 

[Poindexter]

I honestly have nothing for this user. Seriously. Clearly his thermometer is faulty, but what could be going on that his pipe is getting that hot?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hot-double-wall-pipe.166093/

 

[Poindexter]

Here are two chimney installs that probably work just fine 154 out of 156 weeks. I am not sure I would spend the $$ to change either, but they are emblematic of conditions.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...t-2-everything-bk.164477/page-45#post-2225820

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...t-2-everything-bk.164477/page-46#post-2226328

Clearly for both under current conditions the exhaust plume is cool enough for condensation to occur at the pipe cap.

One strategy for this would be to run the stove at full throttle with the hottest possible fire while there is direct sunshine on the exposed stack to kinda sorta burn the ice off (and out of?) the stack daily.

I think both of these installs are at risk of having low draft issues if the weather doesn't break soon.

The one guy will have to go outdoors for sure to brush his pipe. No fun, but if the weather breaks in the next couple days he might be able to melt it clear and get by a few more years.

The other can probably brush bottom up from indoors. He could maybe shorten his stack to reduce ice formation every third year during polar vortexes, but that might mean inadequate draft in more normal winter conditions.

 

[SuperJ]

Ha, I got an honorable mention with my chimney icicles. For me I think it's more of an issue of maybe wood that isn't as dry as it should be and a small house with a low heat load. Even with -27C (-15F) weather I haven't needed to run the stove hard yet. My house is in the mid 70's and quite comfortable. Yo've convinced me to run a load of wood thru it on high to clean things out (but it will be in the 80's in here).

My chimney is 16" of ICC Excel and Ultra black double wall going straight up with no offsets or 90's.

It's only -15C today so it's a good melting opportunity.
I've been working on tightening up my basement. Found some ice growing on the exposed concrete around some windows.

Here she is rocking away on high. I'll snap a picture of chimney cap in an hour or so.

UPDATE: Ice is gone except for the upwind 30% of the cap, it's windy and the wind seems to take away the heat too fast to melt all the ice. It's 84F on my mainfloor (still 62F in the basement where my office is though). I'm not too concerned about the remaining ice, since it's just hanging of the lip of the horizontal saucer, and not impeding airflow at this point. The heat comes out above the saucer, so I think that build up of ice is actually a testament to the quality of the insulated class A. If it conducted enough heat to melt the ice, then my flue gases would be even colder.

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Here are two chimney installs that probably work just fine 154 out of 156 weeks. I am not sure I would spend the $$ to change either, but they are emblematic of conditions.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...t-2-everything-bk.164477/page-45#post-2225820

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...t-2-everything-bk.164477/page-46#post-2226328

Clearly for both under current conditions the exhaust plume is cool enough for condensation to occur at the pipe cap.

One strategy for this would be to run the stove at full throttle with the hottest possible fire while there is direct sunshine on the exposed stack to kinda sorta burn the ice off (and out of?) the stack daily.

I think both of these installs are at risk of having low draft issues if the weather doesn't break soon.

The one guy will have to go outdoors for sure to brush his pipe. No fun, but if the weather breaks in the next couple days he might be able to melt it clear and get by a few more years.

The other can probably brush bottom up from indoors. He could maybe shorten his stack to reduce ice formation every third year during polar vortexes, but that might mean inadequate draft in more normal winter conditions.

 

[BKVP]

View attachment 219482 View attachment 219483 View attachment 219484

Ha, a got an honorable mention with my chimney icicles. For me I think it's more of an issue of maybe wood that isn't as dry as it should be and a small house with a low heat load. Even with -27C (-15F) weather I haven't needed to run the stove hard yet. My house is in the mid 70's and quite comfortable. Yo've convinced me to run a load of wood thru it on high to clean things out (but it will be in the 80's in here).

My chimney is 16" of ICC Excel and Ultra black double wall going straight up with no offsets or 90's.

It's only -15C today so it's a good melting opportunity.
I've been working on tightening up my basement. Found some ice growing on the exposed concrete around some windows.

Here she is rocking away on high. I'll snap a picture of chimney cap in an hour or so.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

What, no Zep for background tunes?

 

[BKVP]

I can tell you when it gets cold, really cold, I turn up the thermostat and really crank out the heat. In dong so, the accumulation of coals increases greatly. That is where raking coals forward and loading to the rear has a benefit.

For the first decade of using my King, I burned Douglas Fir and Western Larch. I never had any accumulation of coals, but when I switched to hardwoods, the coals began.

As it warmed up this week and we ran the stove at a lower output, we refueled less frequently and had very little coal accumulation.

I need to stop traveling and go cut some mountain wood!

 

[SuperJ]

I can tell you when it gets cold, really cold, I turn up the thermostat and really crank out the heat. In dong so, the accumulation of coals increases greatly. That is where raking coals forward and loading to the rear has a benefit.

For the first decade of using my King, I burned Douglas Fir and Western Larch. I never had any accumulation of coals, but when I switched to hardwoods, the coals began.

As it warmed up this week and we ran the stove at a lower output, we refueled less frequently and had very little coal accumulation.

I need to stop traveling and go cut some mountain wood!

When you load to the rear, do you mean EW across the back or NS with the pieces just shoved back leaning on the ridge of coals across the front?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Looking at my wood pile, I see I have not yet burned 2 cords of wood this season. Typically on New Years Day I am deep into my fourth cord and trying to estimate when in March or April I am going to run out of dry wood.

Unseasonably warm weather here means we probably have a Polar Vortex going in the lower 48. That means there will be several pictures, posts and threads by folks who are pushing their stoves harder than ever, just like the winter of 13/14 when we last had a significant polar vortex going on.

1. This is a really really good time to find out where your stove is getting air from. Oh you have an OAK, your general contractor was Jesus Christ, the insulation sub was Saint Peter, the vapor barrier sub was Saint Mark and your wood stove and chimney were installed by Saint Anthony? Happy for you. The rest of us, this is time to hold your hand on or near every break in your insulation envelope.

Every single electrical receptacle on an outside wall. Every single light switch. Every single window, all the way around. Same for the doors. Your stove is running fine, it is getting air from somewhere... but where. When you are really flogging the stove - like now- where "else" have you got air leaks in your envelope that you don't otherwise notice?

1a: Go outdoors and visually inspect all your trim. Windows, doors, outside electrical receptacles, the hole for the water spigot, all of it. Where on the exterior do you see frost formation? That's where your leaks are. I have three: 2 bathroom vent fans and one clothes dryer outlet.

I have 6 "other" tabs open. I think for all of these it has been safe to say the total package has been running fine for 154 of the last 156 weeks. Many of these may not be economical to upgrade since they run so well the vast majority of the time and fixing them for current conditions may make them operate not so well under normal or average conditions.

I am not trying to call anyone out for ridicule. I am just observing when the weather gets more colder some of the corners we have cut become more problematic.

You are right, PD. I knew I was crapping out on the projects to keep the heat inside the envelope, and we are paying the price now.

It's part undesirable work, part desire to avoid spending the dough, part, lack of know-how.

I've got a bushel full of excuses, mainly, it's that I'm busy doing other important work.

I think I need some additional motivation.

Any suggestions?

 

[edyit]

Any suggestions?

we can get you wife to start nagging you hourly

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

we can get you wife to start nagging you hourly

Well, no one has agreed to marry me, so...

And, I'm not sure, but I think that the long-term gf is so impressed with the amount and difficulty of lumberjacking that she sees me doing, that she just feels empathetic to my situation, and appreciates that I'm the one loading the stove in the middle of the night every night, and generally working my a$$ off to keep us warm and fed. And, perhaps its just that the ladies like lumberjacks?

Now, this is going to sound crazy, and I admit that it is, but we actually had a little tiff yesterday because I suggested that she could have provided a little more of the motivation that you suggested.

This could be an instance of working hard, but, not smart...

 

[BKVP]

When you load to the rear, do you mean EW across the back or NS with the pieces just shoved back leaning on the ridge of coals across the front?

I've been loading really large length (22") pieces E/W in the back of the firebox. 95% of my stuff is 17" for my King. But I have some walnut and locust that had some longer pieces.

When my wife burns the stove, she uses less wood and fuddles with the stove a whole lot less than I do. I'm always running tests and she just uses it for heat. She prefers, understandably the N/S loading being much safer.

 

[BKVP]

Well, no one has agreed to marry me, so...

And, I'm not sure, but I think that the long-term gf is so impressed with the amount and difficulty of lumberjacking that she sees me doing, that she just feels empathetic to my situation, and appreciates that I'm the one loading the stove in the middle of the night every night, and generally working my a$$ off to keep us warm and fed. And, perhaps its just that the ladies like lumberjacks?

Now, this is going to sound crazy, and I admit that it is, but we actually had a little tiff yesterday because I suggested that she could have provided a little more of the motivation that you suggested.

This could be an instance of working hard, but, not smart...

Well, since Fairbanks is cold this time of year, maybe Poindexter can travel to visit you and help kick your projects into gear. He has lots of time on his hands to ponder the meaning of life and he has great experience in being motivated!

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Well, since Fairbanks is cold this time of year, maybe Poindexter can travel to visit you and help kick your projects into gear. He has lots of time on his hands to ponder the meaning of life and he has great experience in being motivated!

Come on down PD! We've got beans and ham on the stove and a spare bedroom right over the stove, one of the warmest rooms in the house, due to my sloth...

 

[Poindexter]

I gave up trying to calculate $ savings from plugging air leaks.

It worked for me to recognize every leak I plugged represented less wood to process every year for as long as we keep the house.

Dunno how much wood I have saved, but it is done.

 

[BKVP]

I gave up trying to calculate $ savings from plugging air leaks.

It worked for me to recognize every leak I plugged represented less wood to process every year for as long as we keep the house.

Dunno how much wood I have saved, but it is done.

Get to the meat of the matter! When does your flight land in Philly!!

 

[Poindexter]

Get to the meat of the matter! When does your flight land in Philly!!

Well, right now this minute it is +19dF in Philadelphia and Ed's leaky house is probably insulated for about +32.

In Fairbanks it is +20dF, my house is insulated for -40 and I got my leaks fixed.

Hmmm. Yeah, I don't think my flight is leaving for Philly anytime soon.

I will say part of my motivation was to keep the house warm enough for my wife to wear, ahem, summer wear in winter with me having to process the least amount of wood possible.

We do have a DIY section on this site for folks looking to do simple stuff like spray foam insulation behind window trim for instance.

 

[Ashful]

This could be an instance of working hard, but, not smart...

Face it, most of us are doing that. Bottom line, gathering and splitting wood is just more fun that working smart, esp. if your day job is sitting at a desk.

I see you joined in 2015, assuming you bought your stove around that time, with a total startup cost around $5k (stove + chimney + processing equipment). At that time, the Dow Jones was hovering 16k - 18k, and today it’s at 25k. If you had put your $5k in something as blind and simple as that index, you’d have made $2350 on it as of today, doing nothing but sitting on your butt and watching it grow.

My total investment in wood heating is likely over $10k, since 2011. In that same time, my money would have doubled (I actually made 22% on my 401k in 2017... ). I’ve probably saved 4000 - 4500 gallons of fuel oil in that time, so for all my hard work, I roughly broke even with sitting on the couch and watching stocks grow.

Folks will point out that the initial investment can be amortized over much more than your two, or my six, years. However, they are failing to understand compounding, your stocks will continue to grow at higher and higher dollar rates, as the portfolio accumulates value.

So, I know what’s smarter, but I also know what I’d rather do! Most of us who have bought new stoves and chimney liners are guilty of working harder, not smarter.

 

[redktmrider]

So, I know what’s smarter, but I also know what I’d rather do! Most of us who have bought new stoves and chimney liners are guilty of working harder, not smarter.

Your right, but a nice 401K doesn't heat the house when the power is out. I guess you can spend the money on a backup generator, but the stove is more fun.

 

[BKVP]

Face it, most of us are doing that. Bottom line, gathering and splitting wood is just more fun that working smart, esp. if your day job is sitting at a desk.

I see you joined in 2015, assuming you bought your stove around that time, with a total startup cost around $5k (stove + chimney + processing equipment). At that time, the Dow Jones was hovering 16k - 18k, and today it’s at 25k. If you had put your $5k in something as blind and simple as that index, you’d have made $2350 on it as of today, doing nothing but sitting on your butt and watching it grow.

My total investment in wood heating is likely over $10k, since 2011. In that same time, my money would have doubled (I actually made 22% on my 401k in 2017... ). I’ve probably saved 4000 - 4500 gallons of fuel oil in that time, so for all my hard work, I roughly broke even with sitting on the couch and watching stocks grow.

Folks will point out that the initial investment can be amortized over much more than your two, or my six, years. However, they are failing to understand compounding, your stocks will continue to grow at higher and higher dollar rates, as the portfolio accumulates value.

So, I know what’s smarter, but I also know what I’d rather do! Most of us who have bought new stoves and chimney liners are guilty of working harder, not smarter.

Ashful, please include the transfer effect. When your wife backs up to the stove, warms her backside and then transfers that heat to you by sitting on your lap. This is the best form of compounding in my opinion.

 

[Ashful]

Ashful, please include the transfer effect. When your wife backs up to the stove, warms her backside and then transfers that heat to you by sitting on your lap. This is the best form of compounding in my opinion.

Lol... so, now who’s working smarter?

 

[lsucet]

For me was, be smart going into wood burning. The house is old and leaky, well it was,lol. Cause I have been fixing that part. The cost years ago of install a furnace and run ducts plus the monthly cost in Propane was not worth it going that route. More when you have to take care multiple places, animals, and try to reach some other goals in life. For what cost me the wood and the way i get most of it, the saving going to wood is big for me. Processing wood for me is the easiest job that i have done in my life. I did trucking for 20 years and used to run a million miles on my trucks and less than 5 years. The only good think about it was that i was independent. Also I growed up and a country and climate where heating is not necessary on winters. I never did it before and for me wood processing wood is ok.

Now I am a heavy line, work horse for Chrysler. 80% transmission and drivetrain, the rest diesel and whatever else when get slow. At least processing wood I don't think, diagnose or run any test.lol. It is all enjoyment. More having my horses around me biting the splits and messing my pile like there is no tree in the property for they do that.lol. But i enjoy it.lol. In the next 5 months it will be seven of them messing the pile, cause three of my mares will be delivering babies. I figure and my mild climate including buying the wood, I will still saving. Just buying pine and for the amount of wood i use every year, will be less/or $1000.00 a year for heating. Better than propane. The investment in equipment for wood processing is nothing compare to the investment on tools to do the job i do. and it is a constant investment.

 

[jatoxico]

Now, this is going to sound crazy, and I admit that it is, but we actually had a little tiff yesterday because I suggested that she could have provided a little more of the motivation that you suggested.

This could be an instance of working hard, but, not smart...

I never feel smarter after talking to the wife about such things and the job invariably becomes harder.

 

[Rearscreen]

Poindexter, polar vortex, thanks. Now that I can give it a name I feel much better.