What New Wood Stove Technology Would You Like To See?

[jetsam]

Would be cool if they took the technology behind what drives the ecofan and upscaled it to a miniature generator. Put it on top of your stove and you can run small electrical appliances. Fans, lights, etc. Maybe even a decent blower.

You can buy that right now.

TEG (not to be confused with Peltier; half of the TEGs on amazon appear to be mislabeled Peltiers.)

 

[SpaceBus]

I think a TEG wired to a solar and/or wind battery bank would be an amazing addition to an off grid power bank. I don't know if a TEG would be easy to integrate to a wood stove like you would have in a living room, but maybe to a wood furnace or boiler would make much more sense. Perhaps they could be installed in the flue for recovering wasted energy?

 

[jetsam]

I think a TEG wired to a solar and/or wind battery bank would be an amazing addition to an off grid power bank. I don't know if a TEG would be easy to integrate to a wood stove like you would have in a living room, but maybe to a wood furnace or boiler would make much more sense. Perhaps they could be installed in the flue for recovering wasted energy?

Nothin' wrong with that. Get a TEG that matches your panel voltage and plug it right into your solar charge controller. Might need to put a couple 24v TEGs in series if you have 48v panels.

 

[firefighterjake]

Never been a fan of having an appliance do too much at once . . . kinda like a Swiss Army knife which can do a lot, but in the end generally there are many better knives, can openers, screw drivers and forks to use vs. using the SAK.

I like keeping my woodstove nice and simple . . .

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I felt the same way regarding simplicity. I don't really even like that I need a blower on the stove.

That said, the thing I'm typing this response on is a better camera, computer, phone, radio, two-way radio, video camera, etc., etc., etc. than any of the individual devices I owned previously, just a few years ago.

It is possible for a device that does multiple things to be better at each task than the previous iterations of the purpose built dedicated devices.

 

[lsucet]

Is not just about us. There are mix feeling between us of how we like things to be or stay. It is okay. But.....
What about new generations? For sure they will like all those gadgets. I think is good cause that will preserve wood burning but at a higher levels and involving new generations. How many of our kids and grandkids etc, want to burn wood? That can give them something to do and another area for development.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Is not just about us. There are mix feeling between us of how we like things to be or stay. It is okay. But.....
What about new generations? For sure they will like all those gadgets. I think is good cause that will preserve wood burning but at a higher levels and involving new generations. How many of our kids and grandkids etc, want to burn wood? That can give them something to do and another area for development.

Well put, lsucet. If the folks working at this stuff are trying to appeal to the 50 of us old farts who are stubbornly dedicated to the way things were, they will quickly go broke.

If they figure out how to make this wood heating thing work much better, and have cool technology to do so, the market can be so much bigger and more profitable.

I think pellet stove are one example here, BK seems to be on the right track as well.

Thanks for the insightful post.

 

[KJamesJR]

You can buy that right now.

TEG (not to be confused with Peltier; half of the TEGs on amazon appear to be mislabeled Peltiers.)

I feel like you can build something much cheaper using an array of thermoelectric Peltiers pressed between two blocks of aluminum square stock. These can be wired into a small battery bank. I’m no electrician, machinist by trade, but the idea is intriguing.

 

[wooduser]

How long before the government requires that the output of woodstoves go through a HEPA filter before being discharged into the atmosphere?

Perhaps a CO2 scrubber will be required as well?

See it FIRST in California!

Current stoves will be disparaged as "dirty old EPA certified wood stoves."

 

[jetsam]

I feel like you can build something much cheaper using an array of thermoelectric Peltiers pressed between two blocks of aluminum square stock. These can be wired into a small battery bank. I’m no electrician, machinist by trade, but the idea is intriguing.

A TEG (ThermoElectric Generator) module makes electricity from a difference in temperatures. A TEC (ThermoElectric Cooler, AKA Peltier) makes a difference in temperatures from electricity. They are closely enough related that a TEG can do a TEC's job and a TEC can do a TEG's job, but one of the reason that TEGs are more expensive is that they are designed for much higher operating temperatures and higher heat differences between the hot side and the cold side. For example if you check out some datasheets from these guys, you'll see that their TECs tend to say not to run them over 190 degrees on the hot side, but the TEGs are designed for 475ish on the hot side.

So yeah, TECs are cheaper, but there's a reason, and even as a hobbyist you should probably stick with TEGs that you have datasheets for.

What you said is definitely something you could do right now, though. You could power your woodstove's fan that way, or charge your phone, or run a stovelight!

 

[jetsam]

How long before the government requires that the output of woodstoves go through a HEPA filter before being discharged into the atmosphere?

Perhaps a CO2 scrubber will be required as well?

See it FIRST in California!

Current stoves will be disparaged as "dirty old EPA certified wood stoves."

I think you might be in a whole different thread from the rest of us...

 

[allan5oh]

My thought would be to take a BK design, which is pretty damn good but automate a bunch of things. First of all have k-type thermocouples post cat and up the flue, and have a temperature sensor in the house. Have a computer take that data input plus outside temp to determine optimum thermostat and fan settings. As the fuel burns out, it will likely open the thermostat to keep the cat from stalling (this can prolong cat activity) and keep the house at a completely stable temp.

It can also self-learn and optimize the PID settings itself. Of course run it off a TEG so it's all 100% off grid. I would think quality brushless DC fans would be best. Connect this all to wifi and have the information fed to your phone. It will alert you when the cat is getting close to dropping out. That's the best time to reload.

 

[Highbeam]

As the fuel burns out, it will likely open the thermostat to keep the cat from stalling (this can prolong cat activity) and keep the house at a completely stable temp.

This is already what happens. The stat opens as the stove cools. The house temp being dang stable is the result of the operator setting the stat properly.

 

[heavy hammer]

If anyone has seen the show mountain men the one guy from South Carolina had a truck run on burning wood. I don't believe it was e most efficient, but he didn't have a lot of money, but plenty of wood. What I'm getting at is there is certain technology out there. Running a wood stove to power a generator or a battery bank. Would be very helpful for power outages or trying to separate your self from the grid. Kind of like how a locomotive runs big diesel generators powering a electric motor. I have seen some of our substations that have giant battery banks for times when the power is down. Some of these ideas would be great I just don't know how many people would be willing to pay for it?

 

[begreen]

Cars and trucks fired on wood gas is still an active hobby for some and popular in Sweden.
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

This technology is most efficient when the waste heat is also used for heating a space like a shop, greenhouse, etc..

 

[allan5oh]

This is already what happens. The stat opens as the stove cools. The house temp being dang stable is the result of the operator setting the stat properly.

I always find at the end of a burn opening the tstat helps.

 

[jetsam]

Cars and trucks fired on wood gas is still an active hobby for some and popular in Sweden.
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

This technology is most efficient when the waste heat is also used for heating a space like a shop, greenhouse, etc..

They predate WWI, were used in WWII, and hobbyists are still making and using them today. All the ones I've seen have the gasifier mounted directly on the vehicle, but that is not necessary. However, given the likelihood that you will drive past a wood gas station versus the likelihood that you will drive past a tree, I think on the vehicle is a good spot for it.

 

[begreen]

No problem, just put it on a trailer and tow it.

 

[mminor]

Two practical suggestions which haven’t yet been mentioned for general stove improvements:

(1) The rope gasket. The vast majority of stoves (mine included) continue to use a rope gasket to “try” to create an airtight firebox. It’s such an archaic mechanism that seems so inefficient - there has to be better ideas for sealing the door and stove manufactures need to implement these new ideas.

(2) The fans. I really think the stove manufacturers should spend almost as much time researching and developing better built in fans to quietly and efficiently move the hot air off the stoves. Think about it - you could have the best stove on earth, but if the built in fan was crap - it would ruin the stove. From what I read - a lot of people have trouble with their fans - too loud, bearings wheez, die too soon, not enough settings - the list goes on. If they would improve the fans - the entire stove experience would also improve.

 

[yooper08]

I'd like to see integrated sensors to monitor temps in the critical areas, as well as other variables such as load weight, coupled with analytics and automatic controls (that can be manually adjusted) to have the best burn for a given output. It would also have an app to view logged data, generate alerts (temps too low/high, ready for reload, etc.), set an optimized burn schedule for your heating needs, and ask Alexa how things are going.

Also, some TEGs to power the fan.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Why couldn't a cat (or secondary tubes) be heated electrically to bring it up to temp immediately (i.e. preheat the stove) via electricity generated as discussed above and stored in a battery. Seems that would help with emissions and improve burn times too

 

[RockCastile]

Thermoelectric Stoves: Ditch the Solar Panels?

Wood stoves equipped with thermoelectric generators can produce electricity that is more sustainable, more reliable, and less costly than power from solar PV panels.

www.lowtechmagazine.com

Recently saw this May '20 article on low-tech magazine's site. Perhaps nothing new in the article that hasn't been kicked around above in this thread or elsewhere on Hearth, but thought some might be interested in giving it a read. What raised my eyebrow most is the article's claim that TEG stoves with fans blowing hot air into the combustion chamber "can slash firewood consumption and air pollution roughly by half." Seriously? If that's true then why don't all wood stoves have this fan system, with or without the need to generate electricity?

 

[kennyp2339]

Personally as a sufferer of high draft I would love to see either just a cat stove or hybrid on a 6" flue that has a 3.0 to 3.5 cu fire box (north south loading) on a t - stat control but also an auto draft control to keep the stove running optiumally running between .004 to .007 wc inches, through in a convective jacket and a quiet 150 cm blower to.

 

[begreen]

Yes, it comes up once and a while. In a nutshell I think the conclusion is that affordable TEGs deliver very little power. With the advent of cheap LEDs though, lighting and slow charging of a cell phone are possible. This could be attractive to an off-gridder. The Alliance for Green Heat held a contest for innovative design which included TEG power. More info here:
(broken link removed to http://forgreenheat.org/2018-stovedesign/stovedesign.html)

The example shows an open-air single burner cookstove using a TEG powered fan for a combustion blower. This is the BioLite concept. It uses forced draft because there is no chimney, but the power is a meager 3 watts.

Using this concept for a wood stove brings up issues like cost, and if used for forced draft the issues or reliability and failure modes become critical. What happens if for some reason the forced draft stops? Where does the smoke go?

 

[Highbeam]

Thermoelectric Stoves: Ditch the Solar Panels?

Wood stoves equipped with thermoelectric generators can produce electricity that is more sustainable, more reliable, and less costly than power from solar PV panels.

www.lowtechmagazine.com

Recently saw this May '20 article on low-tech magazine's site. Perhaps nothing new in the article that hasn't been kicked around above in this thread or elsewhere on Hearth, but thought some might be interested in giving it a read. What raised my eyebrow most is the article's claim that TEG stoves with fans blowing hot air into the combustion chamber "can slash firewood consumption and air pollution roughly by half." Seriously? If that's true then why don't all wood stoves have this fan system, with or without the need to generate electricity?

The stove in front of me now is 80% efficient. You can’t cut wood use in half and get the same amount of heat. Even at 100% efficiency. Such a simple and critical math error makes everything else in that article suspect.

Pellet stoves also force air into the fuel bed and have efficiencies just like natural draft wood stoves.