What’s wrong with this picture?

[Highbeam]

Ok thank you. They are not breaking out the liner. Chimney is slugged full between the brick and the liner and they think it might cause problems. They are going to oval out a 6” pipe and also insulated it.

This worries me but I am not a masonry chimney expert. I like to tear them down! Perhaps a new thread about the liner installation would be helpful. There are some definite chimney guys on here. The 5x9 tiles, slugged full between brick and tile, and then trying to fit an insulated 6" liner down that seems to offer some challenges.

The fact that your clay tiles are not free floating in the masonry might explain the whole cold chimney issue!

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

If you are burning a lot of white birch bark, you'll have lots and lots of volatiles to burn off, regardless of moisture content. I try to mix it in sparingly. And, it still dirties the glass.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I have to run small loads or it cooks us out of the house. Could this be the problem?

The main problem is the flue not getting hot enough and causing SOOO much creosote! I’m talking gallons cleaned twice a year. I am in the process of having the chimney lined so that might help the creosote being that it will be insulated.

Yes, too many small fires in a big firebox. In my experience, woodstoves work best when they are kept "on the pipe" pumping out the heat. High combustion temperatures are key to good combustion and over-sizing the stove is counter productive to that goal. The new insulated flue will probably help but the stove is still awfully big for the compact shape of your house. The good thing is your new flue will benefit just about any stove you want to put in there.

 

[Highbeam]

I hate to ask, just how big is this house and is the stove on the bottom level?

 

[Merc1973]

Sorry Merc, solid fuel flue pipes are to be installed as to be dripless. Meaning the liquids that run down the inside of the pipe must be contained by having the taper go into the receiving end of the pipe below. Otherwise the liquid creosote would leak out and run down the outside of the pipe where they could collect and start a fire. This is NOT like a gas flue as might have been the majority of your HVAC experience.

This I did not know. Thank you! Sorry to the OP, I stand corrected!

Great forum with great people!

 

[Doc C]

I hate to ask, just how big is this house and is the stove on the bottom level?

The house looks a little smaller from the outside then it really is.

It’s a total of 1940 square feet according to the last appraisal and I helped her measure so I’m sure it’s accurate.

2 story house and the stove is on the bottom floor.

I do have new windows, insulation, doors and the like so it’s a lot more efficient then most house built long ago.

 

[Doc C]

 

[Doc C]

This worries me but I am not a masonry chimney expert. I like to tear them down! Perhaps a new thread about the liner installation would be helpful. There are some definite chimney guys on here. The 5x9 tiles, slugged full between brick and tile, and then trying to fit an insulated 6" liner down that seems to offer some challenges.

The fact that your clay tiles are not free floating in the masonry might explain the whole cold chimney issue!

I did start a thread about the chimney several months ago. Seems the best option we came up with here and also talking to the local chimney folks was the ovaled insulated pipe or tearing the whole thing down which I would prefer not to tackle.

 

[Doc C]

If you are burning a lot of white birch bark, you'll have lots and lots of volatiles to burn off, regardless of moisture content. I try to mix it in sparingly. And, it still dirties the glass.

White birch is the hardest wood we have in our area. I normally either have to burn birch, pine, or fir. I have a little bit of maple from a tree that was planted long ago but that’s almost gone.

So I’m really limited on what I can burn. Sigh

 

[VirginiaIron]

View attachment 201461 View attachment 201462 View attachment 201463 View attachment 201464 View attachment 201465

I am of the understanding the magnetic thermometers are acceptable, I use one, but they do not give the user an accurate picture of the temperatures inside the stove or pipe.

... The main problem is the flue not getting hot enough and causing SOOO much creosote! I’m talking gallons cleaned twice a year. I am in the process of having the chimney lined so that might help the creosote being that it will be insulated. But my chimney is inside the house and it’s about 23’ from where the stove inserts to the top. Also clean out is sealed very well.

That seem way too much creosote for a clean burner. In most locations, the appliance is required to be installed according to the manufacturers installation instructions.
1.You stated your chimney is a 5X9, what size vent is your stove designed for?
2. Is the thimble/ connector pipe slid too far in the vertical section so as to create a restriction?
3. Does the fire change when you open a window or turn an exhaust fan off?

....My wife is an insurance broker and that is how her companies suggest it to be installed as well. With that being said I am here to learn and am more then willing to correct anything that needs correcting. So definitely continue to let me know how to make this thing more efficient and safer.

I wasn't sure if you store you wood inside so close to the stove when it is hot, but I did not see a qualifier. I did not see a fire in the stove, but since you posted it with the other photos I will assume you store your wood too close to the stove.

**Keep the puppy safe.**

 

[Doc C]

I am of the understanding the magnetic thermometers are acceptable, I use one, but they do not give the user an accurate picture of the temperatures inside the stove or pipe.



That seem way too much creosote for a clean burner. In most locations, the appliance is required to be installed according to the manufacturers installation instructions.
1.You stated your chimney is a 5X9, what size vent is your stove designed for?
2. Is the thimble/ connector pipe slid too far in the vertical section so as to create a restriction?
3. Does the fire change when you open a window or turn an exhaust fan off?


I wasn't sure if you store you wood inside so close to the stove when it is hot, but I did not see a qualifier. I did not see a fire in the stove, but since you posted it with the other photos I will assume you store your wood too close to the stove.

**Keep the puppy safe.**

Stove is designed for 6”. ESW said 5x9 was fine before I installed it. Have to trust them as they build the stoves. In my mind it’s a bit too big of a chimney though which is one reason I’m having it lined with insulated pipe.

The connector pipe where a thimble would normally be is flush with the brick on the inside. It does not interfere at all. Does not stick out past the brick at all.

I did have an issue with replacement air coming into the house causing the stove to puff but after lots of reading here I added a proximity air intake in the same room as the stove and I think that fixed it. I did that this summer so I only have a couple weeks burning with the intake in place.

That is where I keep that wood. I’ll have to look at the picture again but it’s behind the stove and to the side. Outside the clearance requirements with my rear heat shield. Barring any wood falling towards the stove or something similar. But I agree it could be a little farther.

Thanks for the thoughts. Everything helps.

Edit: I just looked at the photo and the wood is a lot farther away then it looks on the picture.

 

[kennyp2339]

I think your off gases to fast since your wood is so dry

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Stove is designed for 6”. ESW said 5x9 was fine before I installed it. Have to trust them as they build the stoves. In my mind it’s a bit too big of a chimney though which is one reason I’m having it lined with insulated pipe.

The manufacturer says the flue area limit is 2.5 times the area of the 6" flue.

6" flue =28.3 sq. inches x 2.5 = limit of 70.7 sq. inches.
5"x9" would be a maximum of 45 sq. inches so you are well within the manufacturers recommendations. I think one of your issues is the thermal conductivity of the flue with your clay liner being surrounded by concrete. The insulated liner will solve that.

 

[Sain6815]

I've got the 30-nch with a 23' insulated stainless liner. I'm not sure what my pipe temp is because it's in a fireplace, but it has an incredibly strong draft and no smoke. When I look at the top of the chimney I can see the heat waves.

I think your problems will go away with an insulated liner.

 

[Doc C]

I have been doing some experiments today. Normally I put wood in the fire let it get burning and turn it down.

I think I might have discovered part of the problem.

I built a fire but I left the area in front of the doghouse open so I could see how the flames reacted in that area.

I noticed that when the slide is open the fire is steady in that area. But when I start to close the slide the fire goes out right in that area but it will sit there and pop I guess is a the best word to describe it. Pops of flames almost like it’s only getting quick bursts of air. I have windows open and plenty of air for the stove.

This makes think I have plugged air holes or something??

 

[Alpine1]

Plugged secondary air holes were a problem with the fireplace insert I had in my previous house. I was thinking to suggest you to check yours... you've beaten me!

 

[Doc C]

Plugged secondary air holes were a problem with the fireplace insert I had in my previous house. I was thinking to suggest you to check yours... you've beaten me!

What did your stove do? How were you able to figure it out?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

White birch is the hardest wood we have in our area. I normally either have to burn birch, pine, or fir. I have a little bit of maple from a tree that was planted long ago but that’s almost gone.

So I’m really limited on what I can burn. Sigh

I don't think that's a problem, I'd just mix the birch bark pieces in with the pine and fir. Get her hot, then shut the airflow so the secondaries are most of the burn. Will work great if the wood is dry as you indicated. I'm currently burning a mix of 15% white birch and 85% tulip poplar. Still get dirty glass from the birch bark. If sappy pine and fir, just make sure it's as dry as you say. You have a lot of great, hot BTU s in that wood. If you can burn it hot and slow.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Plugged secondary air holes were a problem with the fireplace insert I had in my previous house. I was thinking to suggest you to check yours... you've beaten me!

Yes, how did you fix that? I took my tubes down and cleaned them, but the innards going into the doghouse aren't easily accessible.

 

[Sain6815]

I have been doing some experiments today. Normally I put wood in the fire let it get burning and turn it down.

I think I might have discovered part of the problem.

I built a fire but I left the area in front of the doghouse open so I could see how the flames reacted in that area.

I noticed that when the slide is open the fire is steady in that area. But when I start to close the slide the fire goes out right in that area but it will sit there and pop I guess is a the best word to describe it. Pops of flames almost like it’s only getting quick bursts of air. I have windows open and plenty of air for the stove.

This makes think I have plugged air holes or something??

Could also be a sign of poor draft. Something could be clogged but the dog house isn't regulated by the primary intake. So, it could be that when you're burning and throttle back that it's starved for air and the draft isn't strong enough to pull through the dog house and secondary??

Could be off base here.

Is this setup new? Or something you've run in years past that's just now giving you trouble?

 

[Doc C]

Could also be a sign of poor draft. Something could be clogged but the dog house isn't regulated by the primary intake. So, it could be that when you're burning and throttle back that it's starved for air and the draft isn't strong enough to pull through the dog house and secondary??

Could be off base here.

Is this setup new? Or something you've run in years past that's just now giving you trouble?

Ruled out draft already. I actually have an overdraft problem when it’s cold.

I’m getting chimney relined so I’m not making any other changes until then really. Unless something really jumps out. I just noticed this so I thought I would ask.

Although it really does seem like there is an obstruction in the inlet side. I might try to blow the holes out tomorrow. Figure it can’t hurt.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Ruled out draft already. I actually have an overdraft problem when it’s cold.

I’m getting chimney relined so I’m not making any other changes until then really. Unless something really jumps out. I just noticed this so I thought I would ask.

Although it really does seem like there is an obstruction in the inlet side. I might try to blow the holes out tomorrow. Figure it can’t hurt.

Report back how blowing the holes out, please. Real interested in your results.

 

[bholler]

I just find it strange the dealer allowed that type of installation. It goes against code for any exhaust pipe since it may allow gases to escape the pipe due to the direction of flow of gases. I used to do HVAC while in college and thats what the inspectors looked at.

You are completely wrong his connections are right and to code.

 

[bholler]

This is a good post from you with lots of key information. Most important is that you are getting this thing lined as we speak so don't do anything until that is done. Insulated liners are best but your 5x9 is small. If they break out the tiles then an insulated liner is required. Just wait until the liner is in. Keep the damper if you've had overdraft problems but keep it full open until it's needed.

Lots of small fires will increase the amount of creosote in any chimney since most of the accumulations in a modern system occur during cold start.

Again the existence or condition of clay liners has absolutely nothing to do with insulation requirements. You really need to stop telling people that.

 

[bholler]

Ruled out draft already. I actually have an overdraft problem when it’s cold.

I’m getting chimney relined so I’m not making any other changes until then really. Unless something really jumps out. I just noticed this so I thought I would ask.

Although it really does seem like there is an obstruction in the inlet side. I might try to blow the holes out tomorrow. Figure it can’t hurt.

What is telling you you are overdrafting?