Weird outlet wiring

[Eureka]

You have 20 amp outlets, and I highly doubt they’re connected to big enough wire or the proper breaker. Just guessing but it’s a very common thing and not good because a 20 amp household device can draw through wire that can only handle 15 amps.

 

[The.Devo]

Start simple, disconnect the wire and see what doesn't work.

 

[Dobish]

i am finally getting the last remaining wierdo outlets taken care of.. i was up in the attic this past weekend running new wires, replacing the 10 junctions that were not in boxes, and putting in some can lights. None of the outlets were grounded in my living room, so I ran all new wires, and cleaned everything up. I put in some new dimmers and decided to replace the lamp cord, fully exposed, that is coming out of the non-gfci outlet.... its been like that for 40+ years, and nothing has been an issue. of course when I went to run the new wire I found the switch was wired backwards and I gave myself a little buzz (yes, i should have killed the power, or at least tested it, my 5 year old already scolded me for not following Rule #1 of electrical work.)

this is just one example of what I found buried behind a false wall... all live outlets, the only thing I did in this picture is remove the wall...


My house was "amended" by a contractor who literally used scraps left over from jobs..... i am really surprised that nothing has caught on fire!

 

[zrock]

Gotta love what some people get away with... Used to Run a nightclub that was in a hotel... The ratsnest of electrical was just scary some back yard maintenance guy from another country would cut up whatever extension cord to run new electrical and tape it together. Then they would wonder why the top of the line sound equipment and lights were always having issues... Told the owner he had a law suite on his hands if something ever happened.. Took pictures and sent them to a inspector and the place got shut down shortly after until it was fixed. They never did reopen the night club as it required a total gut by the time they found all the crap in their... Was to bad as it was the hotspot as well..

 

[gzecc]

Its really amazing there aren't more fires from the shoddy electric work in peoples houses.

 

[Dobish]

Its really amazing there aren't more fires from the shoddy electric work in peoples houses.

Yep. I also just pulled an exposed ungrounded wire from a box going outside. Then there was a lamp cord tying the light to it. All just dangling in the elements. Whole box was filled with mud and bugs.... i have to find my panel when i moved in...

 

[faultymechanics]

Okay so brief update. I got everything wired up and installed with new outlets. I will in the future pull my 20A plugs to double check the gauge but it did actually look larger than a standard outlet so that was nice. I'll also be mindful of what we're plugging into those outlets until I get the chance to confirm. I don't think I have any 20a devices besides my welder and that isn't being used upstairs haha.

Using extra supports and the "flush-plate" I was able to get those outlets firmly supported so they don't move. Whoever mentioned there was only one support, you were right. The other box didn't have any. I did buy some old work boxes in case I want a project down the road. Larger plates covered 95% of the hole in the wall. The last bit I was able to just spackle and cover up without much issue. Obviously there is a more invasive way to fix those issues but this works fine and is safe.

I actually found two outlets in the house with the slightly strange, white wire on the hot side setup and both are in rooms with switches that have no ceiling lights. I'm guessing they are switched outlets but I haven't confirmed by plugging something in and trying it. I've just been using one of those plug testers to verify it is wired correctly.

Based on what I've seen online, I was blessed with considerably better wiring than most. The house was rewired at some point in its life and it definitely seems to have been done right which is SUPER nice. Just tells me it wasn't the previous owners who did the job but someone else before them....people who had the house before me were cheap as hell.

I was raised on, do it once, do it right. Oh and my favorite, buy once, cry once.

 

[Dobish]

I don't think I have any 20a devices besides my welder and that isn't being used upstairs haha.

I was raised on, do it once, do it right. Oh and my favorite, buy once, cry once.

Both good philosophies, but i can think of plenty of times i wish i had a welder in my kitchen! Creme brulee the quick way!

 

[blades]

if the wire( it's self) is larger and silver colored it is aluminum. popular for awhile as a cost cutting measure but other issue arose down the line.

 

[faultymechanics]

if the wire( it's self) is larger and silver colored it is aluminum. popular for awhile as a cost cutting measure but other issue arose down the line.

Happy to report it's all solid copper wire

 

[Dobish]

Happy to report it's all solid copper wire

Lucky

 

[Highbeam]

Both good philosophies, but i can think of plenty of times i wish i had a welder in my kitchen! Creme brulee the quick way!

Another use for this handy fire starter always at the ready.

 

[hockeypuck]

Its really amazing there aren't more fires from the shoddy electric work in peoples houses.

Dirty secret and do not tell your local fire department, if a building was going to catch on fire from electrical work, it already happened. Only reason why a building would burn down due to electrical work would be is a noob messed with an existing installation especially if it was an older wiring method like BX or knob and tube. Houses burn now due to improper wood stove installations or accidents with electric space heaters and cigarettes. Very rarely do you hear one burning due to poor electrical installations. I agree it is surprising that there are not more. I will do a little research and come up with some numbers.

 

[faultymechanics]

I did find one miswiring I need to figure out how to correct. two 3-way switches controlling the same light in the kitchen. One will only work if the other switch is set to on. I'm guessing they mixed some wires up somewhere. Maybe the two black wires were switched, common and the traveller? I don't know light switch wiring super well and am still learning.

Thankfully that's just a miswire and not janky wiring.

Currently working on replacing toggle switches with decora switches as well as installing some smart home switches.

 

[brenndatomu]

One will only work if the other switch is set to on.

Sounds like one of the switches has a bad contact to me...could be miswired, but my money is on bad switch.

 

[CatfishHunter]

I actually found two outlets in the house with the slightly strange, white wire on the hot side setup and both are in rooms with switches that have no ceiling lights. I'm guessing they are switched outlets but I haven't confirmed by plugging something in and trying it. I've just been using one of those plug testers to verify it is wired correctly.

I'm late to this electrical party, but I agree with your assessment above. If there were no ceiling lights then they likely ran switched outlets for lamps. You'll have to test it with a radio or lamp plugged in. I got rid of those in my house immediately. Outlets always work in my world, they aren't switched. I climbed up in the attic, cut holes, and put in nice ceiling fan/lights for rooms without a light source.

As for the 20amp outlets, check to see if the breaker is 20amp. If so, the most important final check is the wiring. If the used 15amp anywhere in that circuit you could have a wire meltdown. Remember that it's not just about running one appliance that is 20amps. It is the total load being put on that circuit. If there is 15amp wire running from a 20amp breaker, you could have a few amps on various outlets/lights that all add up to more than 15amps. That is where most people melt wires. The breaker won't trip because you are still under 20amps but the wire will be overloaded.

 

[fbelec]

i run into the white wire on the hot side a lot. it's just a case of the installer or someone changing the out used the wrong color. that white wire is from a switch. every outlet has tabs between the screws that you break off. just the black side. then the switch will work half the outlet. if the tab is not broken off the switch does nothing and the outlet is live all the time.

if a 20 receptacle is hooked to a 15 amp circuit the code says it is acceptable. the outlet is a little beefier to handle 20 amps doesn't mean it's going to light on fire. the code also says if you have more than one outlet on a 20 amp circuit you can use 15 amp outlets as long as the connected load is not drawing more the the 15 amp rating.

highbeam had the oversized hole for the boxes right cut out a bigger section stud to stud install a plastic box because they hold more wires. or move the box over to one side or the other and patch to old hole.

if your outlets are in a bedroom or livingroom or lighting and the breaker says 20 amps it is probably wrong there is some 15 amp wire somewhere in the circuit and the breaker should be changed to a 15 amp of the same make as the panel. hope i didn't miss anything.

frank

 

[Eureka]

I’ve seen a lot of houses around here that have 15 amp breakers on 14 gauge wire that switched out for 20 amp breakers to overcome nuisance tripping; not good.
I’m pretty sure some bonehead handyman electrician thought that he came up with a great idea to fix people’s breaker tripping problems.
It is common to see 20 amp receptacles on 15 amp circuits; no problem there.

 

[Highbeam]

I’ve seen a lot of houses around here that have 15 amp breakers on 14 gauge wire that switched out for 20 amp breakers to overcome nuisance tripping; not good.
I’m pretty sure some bonehead handyman electrician thought that he came up with a great idea to fix people’s breaker tripping problems.
It is common to see 20 amp receptacles on 15 amp circuits; no problem there.

I replaced a zinsco main panel in my current house and it had several 20 amp breakers connected to 14 gauge copper in the panel. The new breakers are 15 amp to match the 14 gauge copper. No nuisance trips. Not sure why it was that way but I sure like my huge siemens panel. Got to use the built in interlock several times over the last few days due to power outages.

My old house has a problem with old outlets that don't grab onto the plugs anymore. So slowly replaced them and I happily pay the extra 50 cents for the new outlets that you shove the wire in back and tighten a screw to clamp the wire. No hooks, no spring loaded things, just tight and straight. Of course, there are rules now about the TR outlets which I dislike.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

One will only work if the other switch is set to on.

If its a 3 way switch the wrong switch terminal was used as a power source
for the extra light. I have one like that but it would take a lot of ripping and tearing to correct it. Back porch light is wired to the wrong end of my 3 way kitchen switch ,so only works when the kitchen light is on. Works out though as i can turn off both lights from the far end.

 

[fbelec]

highbeam it's good you rid of the old zinsco. they started house fires. anybody still have them get rid of them. also if anyone stills has the old federal pacific get rid of those, also started so many fires the company went bankrupt. i pulled a couple of federal pacific panels out of a guys house that had electric heat. i warned him for years until he sold and the new owner made him change them. when i did pull the guts out the tubs had a softball size burn on them. i think someone upstairs was looking out for him.

 

[fbelec]

three way switches are easy. i don't know how to make a picture of this so bare with me. if you have to change a three way switch just remember that any three way switch has a different color screw for the common of the switch. might be black or it could be copper while the other two (we call travelers)are brass screws. doesn't matter which wire goes where. if your not sure for each switch there is power, light and wires. if you only have a 3 wire cable hooked to a switch then the light and power (two wire cables) are at the other box. if only a 3 wire cable then the one wire that has power is the common. usually white. the other two wires are travelers and the go to the brass screws. if you have 2 two wire cables and a 3 wire cable in one box then you'll find one of those 2 wire cables is hot and the other two wire cable is the light. the hot should go to the white wire of the three wire cable going to the other switch that connects to the common. the white wire in the box with the 2 two wire cables and a 3 wire cable each white on those two wire cables connect together. the light fixtures black wire connects to the common of that switch and the travelers from one switch to the other connect to the two brass screws on each. hope i didn't miss anything.

frank

 

[semipro]

By far the biggest electrical hazard I've found in 6+ houses we've lived in was caused by the use of push-in, or back stab, (no screw) outlet connections. Outlets farther down a circuit would go dead and I'd find a feeder outlet with obvious signs of overheating from excess electrical resistance. I'd never recommended using any type of electrical connection that relies upon only spring pressure for securement. I've noticed that many new fixtures (lights, fans, etc.) come with this type of connector. I cut it out and install a wire nut instead.

 

[Eureka]

By far the biggest electrical hazard I've found in 6+ houses we've lived in was caused by the use of push-in, or back stab, (no screw) outlet connections.

I have always, and will continue to think those are absolute garbage.
I’m not an electrician, my experience comes from remodeling, but the wire usually just pulls out the back with a light tug, and they’re always heated/scorched looking.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

By far the biggest electrical hazard I've found in 6+ houses we've lived in was caused by the use of push-in, or back stab, (no screw) outlet connections.

View attachment 272041

They dont use those anymore for outlets . Only on light switches.