We are the Bad Guys...Again!

[SpaceBus]

I also burn wood, use fossil fuels, zip bags, etc. but I try to use less and also keep in mind that the top 1% of wealth holders is actually doing the majority of the environmental damage. I think also we tend to think of air quality and carbon emissions as one in the same, when they are not quite. This piece is about local air quality, which is not the same as the warming effects caused by carbon or methane emissions. Wood burning can be quite horrible for local air quality, if done the "wrong" way, but not necessarily a large percentage of global carbon emissions.

 

[fvhowler]

So, I think we all agree that the Guardian is a left leaning media service with a hit piece on wood burning stoves using data that has been mispresented to support its flawed argument. "Trust the science" I tell you!

 

[stoveliker]

I agree climate change is not the same as pollution exhaustion by stoves. But the problem with the atmosphere is that what I exhaust, locally, has a higher concentration locally, but does not remain locally.

That argument of locality is flawed imo.
All pollution is locally started.
And dilution is not a solution to pollution. It is often a policy, yes (as in the procedures I used when doing chemistry in my physics lab - I know, an abomination to real chemists, but one can't live without...) but one has to carefully look at the rate with which pollutants disappear from a system before dilution can be deemed an acceptable approach.

But, I agree that we mostly agree on the merits of the piece in the first post.

Have a good night all.

 

[BrianVA]

The fact that climate change became a political issue is a real shame and a disservice to us all.

Also, burning wood is carbon neutral and a renewable resource. If done in a clean burning stove with well seasoned wood, it emits very near zero air pollutants. In addition, I've never cut down a healthy, living tree for firewood.

 

[SpaceBus]

The fact that climate change became a political issue is a real shame and a disservice to us all.

Also, burning wood is carbon neutral and a renewable resource. If done in a clean burning stove with well seasoned wood, it emits very near zero air pollutants. In addition, I've never cut down a healthy, living tree for firewood.

Yes, this is all true, but the majority of pollution/carbon emissions from wood do not come from wood stoves. There is a considerable amount of slash and burn, bon fires, smokers, pellet smokers, etc. still out there unregulated.

Left leaning or not the piece is right, wood burning contributes to poor air quality.


@stoveliker there is still an important distinction to be made in regards to greenhouse gases and air quality. Poor air quality affects people, greenhouse gasses affect the whole planet. While I agree there is a bit of both happening with wood burning, the problem is almost entirely related to air quality, not the carbon emissions. The cars and fossil fueled appliances in a city outweigh the greenhouse gas emissions from wood, but the air quality problems from wood persist in a specific area. If a guy decides to burn his leaves, everyone in the neighborhood suffers, but the carbon emissions are still fairly low when compared to the houses and cars in the area.

There is a very important nuance to be discussed here.

 

[stoveliker]

Ok, I guess I don't get why in your idea greenhouse gasses affect all but other stuff we put in the air only affects people (ever looked at a tree leaf under a microscope, and see what pollution does?)

I disagree. But it's ok. No hard feelings.

 

[snobuilder]

All this time I never realized that I was "suffering" from the smell of burning leaves on a crisp fall day.....

 

[SpaceBus]

Ok, I guess I don't get why in your idea greenhouse gasses affect all but other stuff we put in the air only affects people (ever looked at a tree leaf under a microscope, and see what pollution does?)

I disagree. But it's ok. No hard feelings.

Sure, it affects other things in the immediate environment, but if I burn leaves on my property it's not going to affect your property. Air quality is a "micro" problem and greenhouse emissions are a "macro" problem. My carbon emissions are much more meaningful in regards to damage to the planet than a person burning leaves once a year. We drive all year, but most people only burn things once or twice a year. The issue is that once or twice a year thing really messes up the air quality in local places. Sure, forest fire smoke can be really bad for whole regions, but we aren't talking about that.

I totally agree with what you are saying, but I'm talking about the context of the thread. In terms of what affects humans in the short term, air quality is a much more low hanging fruit than greenhouse emissions, even though those greenhouse emissions are what is going to do us in. The UK is also a bit sensitive to air quality issues after the devastating effects of the industrial revolution. Even where I live in Maine there are some people burning old smoky OWB's and they pose a serious air quality hazard for the locals. There are none within a few miles of my house, so I don't notice.

The effects of poor air quality are visceral and tangible, where the problem with greenhouse emissions is basically invisible unless you live in an area that is flooding with sea level rise.

 

[NewGuy132]

There is a considerable amount of slash and burn, bon fires, smokers, pellet smokers, etc. still out there unregulated.

If you try to regulate my smoker we might have problems. 😁

 

[SpaceBus]

If you try to regulate my smoker we might have problems. 😁

I would love to have problems with people standing in the way of clean air.

 

[begreen]

I think we need to remember that until this year in the UK you could still buy basic hearth stoves that have little to no clean burn technology. They are popular, cast iron, and often designed to sit in a fireplace. These stoves are less expensive which appeals to thrifty Brits. Unfortunately, they emit pollution like the stoves from the 70s. This is what needs to be addressed and England is in catch-up mode.

Here is a recent counterpoint article.

Despite all the controversy, wood burners are here to stay - here's why

Wood burners. They look nice and make your home cosy, so why do some people want them banned? To answer that question, we'll be looking at why wood

www.thecourier.co.uk