Vermont Castings Encore 2 in 1 ?

[Moses]

I have an update. After 11 months (February 2012 to now -no burning during summer of course) my rectangular honey comb catalyst is falling apart. I went to check it to clean it and part of it crumbled and now it has a hole. That explains the reason for the glow on the left but not much glow on the right side. Now i will likely have to replace it...have to check the warranty and check with the hearth store i bought it from. What a pain this stove is. It saves you firewood but seems costly to run and repair it.

 

[bobabuoy]

My cat fell apart as well. I have been burning it without in the non cat mode with some good success. As long as I make sure I have a good bed of coals, I can load wood and get secondary burn immediately after closing the damper.

 

[Moses]

That's encouraging to hear. Thx for posting.

 

[Smokey]

I bought a Defiant 2 in 1 in October, and the catalyst has failed after burning about 1/2 cord. I installed a cat probe to monitor temps closely. I found a crack in the casting that makes up the back of the stove shortly after taking delivery, and so far all the response from VC has been a verbal comitment to send parts for the repair. That was over a month ago with no estimate as to when the parts will be available. They advised me not to use the stove. If I knew then, what I know now...

 

[BrowningBAR]

I bought a Defiant 2 in 1 in October, and the catalyst has failed after burning about 1/2 cord. I installed a cat probe to monitor temps closely. I found a crack in the casting that makes up the back of the stove shortly after taking delivery, and so far all the response from VC has been a verbal comitment to send parts for the repair. That was over a month ago with no estimate as to when the parts will be available. They advised me not to use the stove. If I knew then, what I know now...

That seems like a lot of BS on VC's part. What did your dealer have to say?

You have a crack casting a shot cat withing the first two months of use. What were your griddle temps during a normal burn?

 

[Moses]

My cat fell apart as we'll. I have been burning it without in the non cat mode with some good success. As long as I make sure I have a good bed of coals, I can load wood and get secondary burn immediately after closing the damper.

If i am understanding you correctly, you still get secondary burn mode WITHOUT the cat?

 

[Smokey]

That seems like a lot of BS on VC's part. What did your dealer have to say?

You have a crack casting a shot cat withing the first two months of use. What were your griddle temps during a normal burn?

Griddle temps are 600-700, so no problem there, but I do get a chemical smell when temps go above 600. I am guessing this is the cat breaking down. I just installed cat probe so I don't have enough burn time to comment on performance. I assume a max safe cat temp of 1600 F? My dealer closed after 75 years, so I contacted another dealer in my area, but I haven't heard from him in weeks. Sorry to hijack the thread.

Moses - I'm not the VC expert here, but you'll get a secondary burn without the cat, but at much higher temps only. I believe the difference is 1100 deg vs. 500 deg.

 

[Ashful]

Too much air won't cause the flue to catch on fire. What is likely happening is when your bypass is open, it allows flames to go directly up the flue. You are getting a light layer of build up through out the day, when the flames hit it, it ignites. My stove has done this a few times, it's kinda scary, but closing the bypass stops the fire.

Waitaminnit... a Dutchwest owner and I discussed the phenomena of the roaring stovepipe in another thread, and this sounds like it may be related. Happens in bypass mode, while trying to get up to catalyst engage temp., and usually (but not always immediately) goes away after cat is engaged. Happens in recently cleaned pipes, too. Are you suggesting I'm having frequent chimney fires?

 

[Moses]

Griddle temps are 600-700, so no problem there, but I do get a chemical smell when temps go above 600. I am guessing this is the cat breaking down. I just installed cat probe so I don't have enough burn time to comment on performance. I assume a max safe cat temp of 1600 F? My dealer closed after 75 years, so I contacted another dealer in my area, but I haven't heard from him in weeks. Sorry to hijack the thread.

Moses - I'm not the VC expert here, but you'll get a secondary burn without the cat, but at much higher temps only. I believe the difference is 1100 deg vs. 500 deg.

.
Thanks smokey. No reason to feel that you hijacked anything. I feel bad for you and your and your situation. Maybe contact somebody higher up at VC and you might get some results...
i have a lot to learn about this cat and non-cat burn modes. I thought you HAD to have a cat for secondary burn mode. Now that mine is partially damaged, i wonder if i should remove it...?

 

[BrowningBAR]

Griddle temps are 600-700, so no problem there, but I do get a chemical smell when temps go above 600. I am guessing this is the cat breaking down. I just installed cat probe so I don't have enough burn time to comment on performance. I assume a max safe cat temp of 1600 F? My dealer closed after 75 years, so I contacted another dealer in my area, but I haven't heard from him in weeks. Sorry to hijack the thread.

Moses - I'm not the VC expert here, but you'll get a secondary burn without the cat, but at much higher temps only. I believe the difference is 1100 deg vs. 500 deg.

With the 2-in-1 you don't need the cat, but the cracked casting is an issue.

Oh, wait, you posted pictures of your cracked casting about a month ago, didn't you?

 

[webby3650]

Waitaminnit... a Dutchwest owner and I discussed the phenomena of the roaring stovepipe in another thread, and this sounds like it may be related. Happens in bypass mode, while trying to get up to catalyst engage temp., and usually (but not always immediately) goes away after cat is engaged. Happens in recently cleaned pipes, too. Are you suggesting I'm having frequent chimney fires?

I don't know? It was a guess. This is my first top loader and it's happened a few times. It happened to me after only a few weeks of burning on a new chimney. I couldn't have had enough build up to be a problem, but it seemed to catch fire for a moment.

 

[Moses]

Joful, i think i know what you're talking about...when i close damper there is a roar for a few seconds or minutes but it goes away. A chimney fire, which is what i was having, was confirmed by cherry red stove pipe.

 

[Ashful]

My pipe has never glowed, but now that I have a cheap little IR gun, I'll have to check the external stove pipe temps next time it happens.

 

[bobabuoy]

If i am understanding you correctly, you still get secondary burn mode WITHOUT the cat?

Yes. I can see the flame through the slot in the back and there is no smoke at all coming out of the chimney.

 

[Trilifter7]

Yes. I can see the flame through the slot in the back and there is no smoke at all coming out of the chimney.

What kind of burn times are you getting without the CAT?

 

[Moses]

Yes. I can see the flame through the slot in the back and there is no smoke at all coming out of the chimney.

Wow. So maybe i won't buy a replacement cat.

 

[bobabuoy]

Hard to say. I have smaller splits so I can never fully load the stove without getting out of control. Last night I had some weird experiences where I could see the secondary burn through the slit at stove-top temp around 450 (I was wondering if my stove top thermometer was off) but then later in the burn I was up to 600-650 and didn't see the burn. I'm thinking of getting a cat temp probe to try and monitor more closely what's going on. Right now I have look for the burn in the slit and then go outside to look at the chimney.

 

[bobabuoy]

Here is a pic. You can see the horizontal slit in the back with secondary burn and no cat.

 

[Smokey]

With the 2-in-1 you don't need the cat, but the cracked casting is an issue.

Oh, wait, you posted pictures of your cracked casting about a month ago, didn't you?

Browning -
I did post pictures earlier this year. The dealer I have been working with said he hoped VC would send the new casting without having to fill out paperwork, and avoid going through the warranty claim process, but that did not happen. Last time we spoke, he said he would have to wait for the parts, and he didn't know how long that might take. I offered to pay him to make it worth his while to do the repair on the (brand new) stove, but I can't seem to get a price up front, and he hasn't returned my calls for over 2 weeks. I mailed a letter to the GM of VC, and the consumer protection agency, so we'll see if that does any good.
The good news in I checked VC's website, and they have the best warranty in the industry, so I'm sure I'll wake up tommorrow and find a new stove at my door.
Seriously though, anyone know of an easy way to move a 500 lb stove? I have to get this thing loaded in my truck if I ever hear from the dealer, and my back is max'ed out at about 100 lbs these days. I'm thinking of building a dolly, but there's a few stairs involved. I'm pretty sure the casting below the ash pan is not a good lift point.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Browning -
I did post pictures earlier this year. The dealer I have been working with said he hoped VC would send the new casting without having to fill out paperwork, and avoid going through the warranty claim process, but that did not happen. Last time we spoke, he said he would have to wait for the parts, and he didn't know how long that might take. I offered to pay him to make it worth his while to do the repair on the (brand new) stove, but I can't seem to get a price up front, and he hasn't returned my calls for over 2 weeks. I mailed a letter to the GM of VC, and the consumer protection agency, so we'll see if that does any good.
The good news in I checked VC's website, and they have the best warranty in the industry, so I'm sure I'll wake up tommorrow and find a new stove at my door.
Seriously though, anyone know of an easy way to move a 500 lb stove? I have to get this thing loaded in my truck if I ever hear from the dealer, and my back is max'ed out at about 100 lbs these days. I'm thinking of building a dolly, but there's a few stairs involved. I'm pretty sure the casting below the ash pan is not a good lift point.

First off, I think you really need to be a massively squeaky wheel. You bought a new stove and they gave you a damaged product. I would be on the phone every single day busting their balls until this was resolved. This is a brand new stove and you are now a month into waiting for this to be resolved.

In regards to the dolly. You can buy one for $10 at home depot. It's what I used to move the Defiant (and the Vigilant, and the Encore, and the Heritage, and the 30...).

1. Take off the doors, the griddle, flue collar and anything else to lighten the load.
2. Slide the dolly under the stove.
3. Tilt stove to one side and have someone slide in a wood plank under stove (you can buy them at home depot cheap in their cut bin)
4. Tilt stove to the other side, slid plank under stove.
5. Repeat until the stove rests on the planks enough to raise the stove legs off the ground.
6. The ash pan casting on the Encore, Defiant, and Heritage took the weight with no damage. I wasn't even concerned, to be honest.
7. Wheel stove to vehicle.
8. Load into vehicle.

I don't know how bad your back is, but, I was able to move all the stoves by myself. So, the weight is manageable.

But, I would focus on being a squeaky wheel.

 

[webby3650]

I'm pretty sure the casting below the ash pan is not a good lift point.

You can lift it from the bottom of the ash pan. That is often the only way to get under these stoves. No problem.

 

[Smokey]

First off, I think you really need to be a massively squeaky wheel. You bought a new stove and they gave you a damaged product. I would be on the phone every single day busting their balls until this was resolved. This is a brand new stove and you are now a month into waiting for this to be resolved.

In regards to the dolly. You can buy one for $10 at home depot. It's what I used to move the Defiant (and the Vigilant, and the Encore, and the Heritage, and the 30...).

1. Take off the doors, the griddle, flue collar and anything else to lighten the load.
2. Slide the dolly under the stove.
3. Tilt stove to one side and have someone slide in a wood plank under stove (you can buy them at home depot cheap in their cut bin)
4. Tilt stove to the other side, slid plank under stove.
5. Repeat until the stove rests on the planks enough to raise the stove legs off the ground.
6. The ash pan casting on the Encore, Defiant, and Heritage took the weight with no damage. I wasn't even concerned, to be honest.
7. Wheel stove to vehicle.
8. Load into vehicle.

I don't know how bad your back is, but, I was able to move all the stoves by myself. So, the weight is manageable.


But, I would focus on being a squeaky wheel.

I agree 100 %, I need to make a stink about this. The problem I have is that I can't demand that a dealer repair my stove when I didn't buy it from them. They told me straight up VC doesn't pay them enough to do warranty work, and I understand thier point. When I call Monessan's warranty line, it rings, and usualy no one picks up. When I did get through, I was told to find a dealer to handle the problem. The only dealer in Ct I spoke with that was helpful / knoledgeable about this stove is in Newtown, and I don't really want to bother them with this.
At any rate, I can't thank you guys enough for the support, and the advise. It's much appriciated.
I'll take a spin to the home depot tomorrow and pick up a dolley!

 

[Ashful]

I moved my stove from vehicle to back door with this:

The only trouble was, my wife wouldn't let me bring it in the house. Picky, picky...

If you don't like lifting onto planks (BAR is a brute!), you can use pry bars and fulcrums, going up or down by one 3/4" plank at a time. It's slow going, but that's how I get my machines, and more recently my stove, on and off of dollies. I've used this technique for jacking up and moving items up to 2500 lb. with very little effort or strain on my back.

 

[slindo]

Time to start establishing a paper trail, in case you end up in court over this. Start logging all phone calls and note what was said. Use email where possible so you have reponses on paper. I'd start by emailing the shop you got if from and ask why it is taking so long and when they will have the parts. Then email all the nearby VC shops and explain ask if they will do warranty work on your stove even though you didn't buy it from them. If you get no reponse to an email, print out a copy and make a note that they did not reply. If you can find a helpful shop don't be afraid to bother them - as authorized representatives of VC they are probably required by their dealer agreement to do service on under-warranty stoves regardless of where they were bought. If they reply they won't, fine, you have established that you cannot get warranty service with help from the manufacturer.

Then make copies of everything and send it to VC and ask them to tell you what to do next in order to get the warranty honored. Remind them that the product has apparently been defective since new, and that you are reporting on your problems, both with the stove and with the Dealer and VC, on a major woodstove forum that is followed by thousands of stove owners perspective buyers.

A phone call to your state consumer protection agency, in addition to a letter, just to find out what your rights are, might be in order too.

I agree 100 %, I need to make a stink about this. The problem I have is that I can't demand that a dealer repair my stove when I didn't buy it from them. They told me straight up VC doesn't pay them enough to do warranty work, and I understand thier point. When I call Monessan's warranty line, it rings, and usualy no one picks up. When I did get through, I was told to find a dealer to handle the problem. The only dealer in Ct I spoke with that was helpful / knoledgeable about this stove is in Newtown, and I don't really want to bother them with this.
At any rate, I can't thank you guys enough for the support, and the advise. It's much appriciated.
I'll take a spin to the home depot tomorrow and pick up a dolley!

 

[Moses]

Update on my crumbled cat...i called the dealer. Cat is under warranty so they are going to order me a replacement. Happy about that to say the least. Hopefully the next one will last longer than 11 months. It sounds like cat is so sensitive if you get stove too hot it gets damaged. I dont have cat thermometer...