VC 2in1 2040 CAT Stove - PLEASE HELP 4 Hour burns....

[jimmyb7]

Wow, glad I found this forum.
Hi, Jim from eastern Canada. Been a wood burner nearly all my life. We use wood as our sole source of heat (been about -10C outside). Always used smaller conventional stoves, so I got tired of setting my alarm every 3 hours in the evening to add wood (or get the fire going again).

Last Spring we bought the VC 2040 model stove, promised 10 hour burns.

MY SETUP.
VC 2in1 2040 stove
6 inch double walled (stainless) pipe inside. Thru-the Wall Kit.
Total approx 16feet height floor to top (one angle out the wall of course)
18-20inch Hardwood, mostly Split (like 7-9 inch dia 1/3 split)
TEMP GAUGE placed just behind the griddle.

HOW I DO IT.
No problem starting a fire. Starts on a breeze.
CAT off, Air open full.
Build up thin kindling with narrow split wood.
About 10 minutes in add small halves, like 3 inch thick.
When surrounded in flame, gray surface and a temp about 400-500 (depending how hot the stove was, and how much flame), I turn ON the CAT.
I usually cut the air back in half (sometimes I cut the air first and leave the CAT OFF if not holding TEMP).
When Temp is holding around 450 I have the CAT ON and when between 450-500 I Completely shut OFF the AIR.


THE PROBLEM:
The Wood is COMPLETED BURNED DOWN to just a bit of coal within 3-4 hours. Throughout, the temp will either stay around 450, OR bumps up to 600 for most of the time, then when no wood left, starts to slowly drop off. This is just enough coal with a temp still around 400 to rebuild the fire, and we do it again.

I know some are getting 6 hours of wood burn with 2 inch of good coal and 400 at the end.

I don't know what more to do !

I started resawing all my firewood (we went through 2/3 of our all winter/spring wood in 2 months !) to 16 inch. This made the fire easier to burn, but no time improvement.

Something else, you could always hear the store ROARING in the back. And the Air Vent lever, from full open, it was full closed 1/2 way . Made no sense.

HISTORY:

Spring bought one, immediately we knew something was wrong. We DID eventually get up to 6 hours heat using 18-20 inch split wood, but..... never burned down to red coal, just a LOT of black coal. Eventually it even stopped emptying into the ash pan - 1/2 stove filled with mostly small rock sized black coal and unable to load the stove again - compete waste.

This stove even COMPLETELY SHUT OFF would have a through the night Gauge TEMP of 600-625. You could NOT slow it down.

The store would not listen.

Contacted VC directly and they said my setup should give 8 good hours. Also advised based on TEMPS not coming down sometimes to not use the stove (which is not possible.)

Before Christmas we discovered the stove completely filling up with coal (not powder) and it was hard to keep the stove about 450-500. The MINUTE you add wood, it drops 100-200 degrees and you have to LEAVE THE CAT OFF for like 30 minutes and then keep the AIR open 1/2.

FINALLY after fighting, the store tried to get VC to do something...... VC would not respond to the store's calls for warranty, the store just now gave us a new replacement.

THIS ONE starts right away. There is good tension in the Air Vent Lever and latch opens/closes properly. BUT it ROARS, I mean ROARS still. The 18-20 inch wood burns no problem AND this one the wood burns evenly and down to ash Finally.

However ---- this one I can't get over 3-4 hours burn. So now we get a proper burn down to ash, and can burn long wood --- in fact the CAT will work at 400-450 in this one, where it took 600 in the first stove - but the burn time has DROPPED from Bad to Horrible !.

I am loading the stove to just above the Bypass door and about 2.5 inch below the griddle -- can't get wood to fit in lengthwise that close to the top. It's about 5-6 pieces of 18 inch long split wood (about 3-4 inch thick pie cut).

You can tell it's burning even and thoroughly, but so fast.

I'm thinking I should have gotten the OTHER kind of Dual Combustion -- the Osbourne ones with the pipes running along the top plate with little holes in it . Fire in the bottom of stove, secondary combustion in the top without a comb thingie.

They ALL promise 10 hour.

Is any of this stuff real?

Where I live these things are $3200-4000 so it's no joke. Just really stuck folks.

HELP ?

Thanks

jim

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Rest assured these folks can and will help out..

Maybe answer some questions:

Type of wood and seasoning

Set up i.e. pipe length, placement of stove (finshed/unfinished basemnt , insert, free standing or other)

And when all else fails, we love pix and video. If there is a problem they will find it!

 

[jimmyb7]

Thanks mate-

It's seasoned wood. It has a little moisture left in it (rainy season when left out to dry). No different then most years. All hardwood, birch, maple mostly.
Pipe is about 5 feet inside and 11 feet outside (thru the wall kit)
Stove is in the main room of our one full storey house. In the corner. Chimney rises at least level with the highest pitch of the roof (and about 12 feet away from the highest pitch) So no draft problems. All by the book.

It's frustrating. First one burned super hot til only coal (but black coal, you know? not hot enough to just add more). And filled up.
Eventually stopped overheating and started not maintaining heat. The long wood stayed black a lot.
It tool about 600 degree to get the CAT chamber to ignite (could see it glow and see flames in it).
We think the first one was faulty.

The second stove - current, burns through nicely and down to a mix of powder and red coal. I think the CAT chamber is starting at 450. But the back still roars and it burns down to a small bed of red coal in 3-4 hours.

We are getting the same good heat at 400-450 in this one that took 600 in the other.
However, I'm noticing now after 2 days that this one is going to 600 with AIR FULL OFF and staying there til mostly coal.

Thanks again


UPDATE:

Reading through another person's similar problem - I followed the advice of a couple users reporting 6 good ours+coal.

I had a good 2 inch of good sized red coal bed. Stove was 400. I put in 2 almost twigs of 18 inch wood on the bottom and a small one in the middle.


I then put the BIGGEST fattest wood I could ontop. About 2 pieces. Then crammed a flat split piece next to the back plate and pushed another between the front forks, then a big flat on top of it all. About 2 inches down from the griddle.

Left it CAT OFF and AIR FULL OPEN for about 10 minutes till fully flamed.
At 450 I cut AIR back 1/2 -- 5 minutes
Its 475 now and cut back AIR by 75% -- 5 minutes
Its 500 now and I TURN OFF AIR COMPLETELY and TURN ON CAT.

TEMP Holds.

Walk away a while and come back -- it's 3 hours later, near 600, and there is about 1 hour left before it's all broke down to coal.

AHHHHHHH

 

[branchburner]

I don't know too much about this stove, but I think the roaring may be normal. That is common with a downdraft burn chamber of the kind that stove has in addition to the cat. Even with the primary air full off, you have secondary air coming in. Don't know if the cat is working, but the roaring indicates secondary burn in the back chamber, at very high temps. So 600F may be a fairly normal stove temp for your conditions. Have you tried measuring your flue temp? Curious how high that is. Also, try putting the thermometer on the side of the stove, towards the back where it is roaring, and see what that is.

I know my particular downdraft stove is very sensitive to draft, and burn times are shorter than I had hoped (though not as short as yours). Other than the stove being new, are there any other variables that are different with the new stove, in the venting or the wood supply? Sounds like the first one was starved for air, and this one is getting too much. Have you checked all the door gaskets, etc.?

 

[rdust]

The Wood is COMPLETED BURNED DOWN to just a bit of coal within 3-4 hours. Throughout, the temp will either stay around 450, OR bumps up to 600 for most of the time, then when no wood left, starts to slowly drop off. This is just enough coal with a temp still around 400 to rebuild the fire, and we do it again.

If the stove is still at 400 degrees I don't think your burn is done. How thick of a coal bed do you have at this point? Most people reload in the 200-300 degree range.

 

[jimmyb7]

Hi there. I have the TEMP Gauge on the Pipe now, 1/2 way up. give reading later.

Well, I reloaded tonight , there was about 2 inch of small loose coal, dark and red and powder, and about 1 inch of large coal at 400
But below 400 and the house does not stay warm.

I loaded it, left CAT off and air open for a bit, then when it was back to almost 450 I turned ON the CAT and 1/2 the air. when there was flame and good simmer established I cut OFF the AIR.
1.5 hours in and it's staying at 450.
About an hour or so from now I expect it to be 500.

If I let this stove go to 200, there would be tiny coal, mostly ash and would have to build a fire and the ends of the house would be feeling cold.

 

[branchburner]

How many sq ft are you trying to heat?

 

[jimmyb7]

about 2400
no problem with good heat and filling the house. That part is great.

 

[jharkin]

I have the previous model, the 2550.. FWIW I can get very long burns... 10... 12 hours. But it gives off very low heat this way. To get this burn I pack it totally full and run the entire load with air shut. Will average only 350F griddle the entire burn. Only on a mild day can this heat the house completely. Holding a 500F griddle will cut that time in half.

Btw I usually leave the air wide open and get it to550 or 600 before engaging, then only start turning down air in stages. Sit down to fast and the cat might stall.

 

[jharkin]

about 2400
no problem with good heat and filling the house. That part is great.

That's impressive. I have to push it to heat 1400 when it gets down to the single digits F (-15C) or so. But we don't have nearly the insulation you do up there I'm sure.

 

[Swedishchef]

Hi Jim

As a fellow East Coaster (raised in NB and have relatives in NS), I can empathize. The price of these things get's costly and you want your money's worth.

Your physical setup sounds good. I don't think that is the problem. How long has your wood seasoned? Maple should be atleast 2 years. I have BIG pieces of maple that are almost 4 years old and still sizzle for 3-4 minutes.

From what you say, I do think that your stove is not performing the way it should be. However, from what I can read, I think your understanding of a burn time may be off. BUrn time does not mean you will see flames for 12 hours. That is asking a lot from a wood stove. Perhaps you have an overdraft situation???

Your wood stove specs say that it can heat UP TO 1800 square feet. The 1800 is rarely suitable for Canadian climates. That's on the max end of the spectrum for when it's abou +5-+10 or so outside. When it get's down to -10 or more, that "specification" changes (hence why it says up to). For example, my stove says that I can get burns of up to 10+ hours. Last night I put in 2 big pieces of maple at 22:00 hrs. This morning at 07:00 hrs It was 18.5 upstairs, 21 in the basement (where the stove is located) and I had enough coals (handfull) to relight. My stove top temp was down to 125. It went down to -18 outside with a 20KM/h N/E wind.

Tell us more about your house setup. Size, shapes, etc. Moving hot air from a wood stove into different rooms can be tricky depending on the layout.

With the expertise of other CAT stove users, I am certain you'll be able to solve the problem.

Andrew