Using optional fan to send heat to second floor

[Beno]

Hi there,

I plan for our custom home (Ottawa, Canada) to have a VC cat fireplace (Sequoia 2), on first floor. This is what the user manual has to say about the optional fan kit:
"The FK26 fan helps distribute heated air from within the firebox out into the room. The fan is controlled by a snapstat that turns power on and off as the firebox temperature rises above and falls below a preset temperature. A rheostat provides for variable fan speeds."
Question: Will I be able to add to this kit a duct that takes warm air also to the second floor? Is this a known/standard procedure that will pass house/fire inspection?

Many thanks,
Beno

 

[karl]

I'm not a guru here but I'd say no. All the fan does is pull air from the room the insert is in and ciruclate it around the stove and blow it back into the room.

 

[Robbie]

Why would you need an extra fan ? The blower should easily push all the warm air upstairs especially since hot air rises.

My blower easily heats my upstairs and down and I have an 1850 sq ft house. Upstairs stays easily around 78 with temps outside in the low 20s or in that area.

Of couse I don't know what your sq ft is but if it's not too much more than mine you should not have any problems keeping your upstairs toasty.

Your blower description sounds exactly like mine, so it should work very well.

I guess it all depends on the size of your home.

Robbie

 

[Beno]

I forgot to mention, the house has 3500 sq.ft. (1800 sq.ft. per level). It has also additional sources of heating: passive solar and hydronic radiant (in floor for the first level and baseboards for the second).
So, if I got you right Robbie, it's OK to add that duct that takes the warm air to the second floor, right? There isn't much air flow between the floors, so there will be minimal transfer of heat from first to second floor (unless I add that duct from the fireplace to the second floor).

 

[kevinmoelk]

I forgot to mention, the house has 3500 sq.ft. (1800 sq.ft. per level). It has also additional sources of heating: passive solar and hydronic radiant (in floor for the first level and baseboards for the second).
So, if I got you right Robbie, it's OK to add that duct that takes the warm air to the second floor, right?

First of all, I don't think it would help... as Robbie suggested, the heat transfer will most likely happen on its own. Two things though Beno... number one stoves are space heaters. I think your expectations may be a tad out of line considering your sq footage. Second, the kind of duct you are mentioning would be a serious fire hazard. The discussion of dumbwaiters, landry chutes, duct work from a lower floor, etc. has taken place here before and if my memory serves me correctly they are all code violations.

-Kevin

 

[Gooserider]

Hi there,

I plan for our custom home (Ottawa, Canada) to have a VC cat fireplace (Sequoia 2), on first floor. This is what the user manual has to say about the optional fan kit:
"The FK26 fan helps distribute heated air from within the firebox out into the room. The fan is controlled by a snapstat that turns power on and off as the firebox temperature rises above and falls below a preset temperature. A rheostat provides for variable fan speeds."
Question: Will I be able to add to this kit a duct that takes warm air also to the second floor? Is this a known/standard procedure that will pass house/fire inspection?

Many thanks,
Beno

I believe if you look in the manual, it will have something to the effect of it being a code violation to connect the stove to any sort of ductwork or air circulation system. I know this is the case with the VC stoves.

There are a few pre-fab units that have duct connections specifically intended to be used for sending heat elsewhere than the stove room, but unless the unit is specifically designed to be connected to a duct you should not do so. If you think this is an important part of your heating plan, you might want to look at a different fireplace (sorry I'm not sure what alternative to suggest....)

Gooserider

 

[begreen]

Goose has it right Beno. Check your manual. This is not allowed. - Page 3: Do not obstruct or modify air inlets/outlets in any manner.

What is the size of the staircase between the 1st and 2nd floors? It is large and open or narrow with a door at the top? If it is large and opens up to a central hallway on the 2nd floor, you shouldn't need anything to get the heat upstairs. As long as there is an adequate convective loop where the hot air rises and cool air returns, the heat can be quite adequate. Our house works this way with no ducts. The built-in fan on the Sequoia should work fine without ducting.

Keep us posted on the installation and take lots of pictures. This is an impressive heater. It will be great to get your impressions of how it works for you this winter.

 

[Todd]

I looked at the fireplace brochure and it states something about a gravity vent option with 7" flex? What's that? I know there are some fireplaces out there that you can hook up to duct work, Regency has one. Is this gravity vent option kind of the same thing?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

the blower kit is provided to push heat off the stove , not to connect to a duct to carry elsewhere. for starters its not going to work connected to a duct due to back pressure. secondly it will look terrible, but if you have that large a house, i would recommend getting it because it will definately help in getting the heat out of the unit into the home. inserts work exponentially better with a blower. ours is equipped with a blower standard for that very reason. if you do not have a blower and you have a fireplace insert you are missing on an awful lot of heat get the blower!

 

[Beno]

Few conclusions (based on your valuable feedback):
1. VC cat Sequoia is too big for our house configuration. The 2 floors are well isolated by design.
2. I need to look for a fireplace designed with air gravity vent/duct system.
3. VC cat Sequoia doesn't have such a system but VC non-cat Sequoia has. I wouldn't go with the everburn technology.
4. I found 2 fireplaces with air gravity vent/duct system sold in Canada: Napoleon NZ26 and Regency. I'll have to do my reasearch about them, and also find others as well.

Napoleon NZ26 (EPA efficiency 63%):
(broken link removed to http://www.napoleonfireplaces.com/Webshare/wood/wood%20fireplaces/Specs_NZ26.html)

Thanks,
Beno

 

[begreen]

It's not that the stove is too big, per se. It's that basically it's an area heater. That's ok if heating a large area. But if the upstairs is isolated from the downstairs, that does present an issue.

While looking at the Napoleon, you might also consider the Regency Z2510 (WarmHearth) and Quadrafire 7100.
Other manufacturers are BIS, RSF, Fireplace Extrordinair, etc.. Here's a recent discussion of large fireplaces.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/8074/

 

[Beno]

I looked also at the Regency (R90 WarmHearth Plus, and Z2510 Classic WarmHearth). It seems similar with Napoleon NZ26.
The RSF is new to me, but is made in Canada and has the air gravity duct system. I'll check it out.
Is there a prefered one among these 3? Which brand is better? Easy to operate, low maintanance....

 

[DiscoInferno]

The Security/Lennox BIS fireplaces have both gravity vent options (no fan, larger ducts out the top) and small duct hookups around the perimeter for remote blowers. I bought the kit for my Ultima thinking I would run it down into the basement into my central air plenum. It does suck a decent amount of heat, but not enough it turned out to heat the house that way. I do much better just letting the heat go up the stairs. It wasn't a complete waste of money since once I finish the basement I can use the duct to heat that; it's currently unheated.

 

[begreen]

Do a search on posts by builderbob. He asked a lot of questions recently on most of these models. There are some good discussions in some of the threads.

 

[gavmct]

I looked also at the Regency (R90 WarmHearth Plus, and Z2510 Classic WarmHearth). It seems similar with Napoleon NZ26.
The RSF is new to me, but is made in Canada and has the air gravity duct system. I'll check it out.
Is there a prefered one among these 3? Which brand is better? Easy to operate, low maintanance....

Hi Beno, I joined this group after seeing your query about the ducting to upstairs and which stove to go with. I live in a 3000' sq. home 1500' per floor. We heat the main floor with an RSF Delta fireplace and use the ducting option to heat the basement... so its actually going downwards. It has an (overpowed) blower that is connected to a dimmer switch that controls the speed. BTW - we live in the laurentians and our temperature are usually 2 - 4 degrees C cooler than Ottawa... This stove could heat considerably more than our square footage (at least in our configuration - log home). Only issue with this particular fireplace (Delta) is that it is designed to go into a corner... but the benefit is the view of the fire is on 3 sides. The firebox is very large and you can burn all night and add to it in the morning without any effort.

I think the RSF Delta is a sure thing if you can go for a corner... else, i'm not sure about there other fireplaces except that there quality is HIGH.

Good luck...

PS. Personally i think it is worth going to a "masonry heater" if you plan on wood as your main source of heat... Check out http://www.crossfirefireplaces.com/ these things are awesome... 24 hours heat from one large armload of wood.

 

[gavmct]

Here is the Delta spec page (broken link removed to http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/fireplaces/foyer_delta.asp)

also as you've probably figured out they are the same makers of excel chimneys.

 

[Beno]

Thanks for the info, and welcome to this amazing forum with great people.
I decided to choose RSF-Opel 3, for the EPA, look, screen, and air gravity duct damper. I also like the fact that I can use the opel as both cat and non-cat (althogh the non-cat is not EPA, I believe their 3'rd party lab results). I also like about RSF that bi-metal that controls the air intake (I found a review from a user of Regency WarmHearth which wished their fireplace would have one).
The Delta2 is too big for our application and also is not EPA approved. Also the masonry heater (although it looks great).
In fact, we will have also hydronic heating (infloor and baseboards), oil + solar.
I know RSF and ICC are together, I see this as a plus, to order the fireplace and the flue from the same manufacturer.
How much did you pay for the Delta2? Everything worked smoothly?

 

[gavmct]

I think you've made the best possible choice. We paid around $5000 for the fireplace... and everything else was extra ie. pipes, install and the duct blower was something like 7000 by the time the dust settled (including taxes). We've had ours for 5 years and use it for the primary heat source. It's opperated as one would hope... no fuss, no unfulfilled wishes. But i guess that what we paid for. As far as EPA approval, i'm wondering exactly what your concerns are? Without it does it affect anything or is it purely to know that it is environmentally sound? (Technically the masonry heaters are potentially quite a bit better than the average epa stove/fireplace but don't fall within the same category ie. you have to build them and I suspect that there are too many variables to rate them fairly).

In the house that i'm building right now i'm planning on a massonry heater instead of the fireplace/stove and it has infloor (hydronic) heating in the basement and main floor (electric... as i live in quebec) and passive solar. Though I'm in the market right now for a temporary stove to heat with until i can afford the massonry heater.

Let me know your thoughts on the EPA.

Thanks

 

[Beno]

The reasons for choosing EPA fireplace (in my case) are higher efficiency and lower emmissions.
I am a bit suprized with the money you payed. I was expecting much less. I guess the markup is very high with these products.

 

[Gooserider]

The reasons for choosing EPA fireplace (in my case) are higher efficiency and lower emmissions.
I am a bit suprized with the money you payed. I was expecting much less. I guess the markup is very high with these products.

Actually Beno, there are many claims to the effect that a masonry heater may actually be the high efficiency / low emmissions champ... Admittedly there aren't as many numbers on the MH side to argue it one way or the other - however there are lots of reports of happy heating on one or two loads of wood / day - which may be better than many woodstoves depending on the size of the loads. In addition the MH advocates claim that their fires are very hot and fast, thus producing minimum emissions. Considering that you only burn two fires a day in an MH, that would imply that for most of the day your emissions are effectively zero, so I can almost believe that one.

I don't think an MH is a realistic retrofit for 99% of the existing homes out there, but if doing a scratch built I would probably be inclined more towards an MH than most other forms of wood burning.

Gooserider

 

[Beno]

gavmct, how are you going to warm the water for the hydronic radiant floor? Based on my research, here in Canada there are no local manufacturers of indoor wood gasification boilers. I could buy a Tarm from US but it is very expensive and the service here may not be easy. I didn't like the 'water coil attached to fireplace' idea, and probably the insurance won't like that either. The only option left was solar panels for DHW. And yes, passive solar design (already done).
MH was not an option for us because our house config (and our budget).